What are your thoughts on Chastity?

[leozaoo]

I think marriage in those times used to be much more generic and ordinary than it is today. So… its way harder to practice it today than it was in the past. Like, in the past, you would marry a person after 2 months or even without ever talking to that person. This is absolutely unrealistic for today days. Seems kind of unfair even if I like the idea of being with a woman who has never been with a man. Do any of you actually practices/practiced it?

(Sorry for grammatical errors)

 

[Roguish]

There are still countries (some very big ones too) where it is still common for marriages to be arranged by the parents. There is no compulsion in this. The parents ask around in their social, family, and business circles, and perhaps use a matchmaking service. Once a candidate has been identified and the parents on boths sides as well as the potential bride and groom express interest (usually based on a “resume”), they typically get to meet each other once, to chat for a couple of hours. After that first meeting, either of them can tell their respective parents they’d rather not marry the person – but this is relatively rare. Usually if there are no problems, they agree, and the parents move ahead with planning the engagement and wedding. The bride and groom typically do not spend any more time with each other until they are actually married. Does this kind of marriage (still) work? Yes it does. It tends to yield stable life-long marriages because parents choose partners based on stable compabilities, not based on whirlwinds of passion, or good looks, or other things that can overwhelm young hearts. Flirtation and the accompanying excitement are completely absent from the matchmaking process, and the way the process works makes it clear for both prospective spouses that there’s no “trial period” of dating: you either commit or you don’t, but you don’t get to try the other out for a while and then decide later. So, no broken hearts from abandoned, failed, or half-hearted courtships. And of course, the big one: this process completely prevents sex before marriage.

 

[Mboo]

when one is sexually virile, to remain truly and perpetually chaste is of the order of supernatural grace, it is naturally impossible to remain perpetually chaste when one is not asexual

 

[leozaoo]

yea but what’s the point of marrying someone if you dont truly love him/her. You know, for me, this is just the same as meeting someone on Tinder and having sex and never talking again. I think Chastity isn’t exactly about marrying someone then: gogogo you have your ticket to have sex.
It seems to me that is more about you loving someone and feeling that him/her is the one you want to be till the end of your life. So, this person has the god given right to enjoy sex with you.

 

[1ke]

I think marriage in those times used to be much more generic and ordinary than it is today. So… its way harder to practice it today than it was in the past.

People find chastity more difficult today because society is so libertine at the moment, and there are generally low expectations of behavior, lack of restraint while single, and lack of practice being chaste as many enter marriage.

Like, in the past, you would marry a person after 2 months or even without ever talking to that person.

While some people did so, such as dynastic marriages of the highest nobility during the feudal period, I think you will find that hasn’t been the norm tbroughout history or for most people. Most people lived and died within a few miles of where they were born and married local men or women known to them.

This is absolutely unrealistic for today days.

Well it wasn’t the norm in days gone by, and premarital preparation in the church takes 6 months on average, so I don’t think we are in any danger of heading that direction.

And this actually has NO bearing on chastity in marriage or before marriage.

Seems kind of unfair even if I like the idea of being with a woman who has never been with a man.

You practice chastity because it is what God commands in every state in life— single or married. Chastity is not optional.

Do any of you actually practices/practiced it?

Of course.

 

[AdamP88]

There is no compulsion in this.

That depends on what culture or country you’re talking about. There are a great many countries where there is indeed a compulsion.

Does this kind of marriage (still) work? Yes it does. It tends to yield stable life-long marriages because parents choose partners based on stable compabilities, not based on whirlwinds of passion, or good looks, or other things that can overwhelm young hearts

Or because there is a massive stigma attached to failed marriages?

I’m sure arranged marriages work out some of the time. But often they occur in countries where women are viewed on almost the same level as property. I wouldn’t be too keen to idealise them.

The divorce rate in the West was low when there was a social stigma attached to a failed marriage.

In fairness though, I think for Catholics, the best thing is to simply teach your kids how to identify traits that make a good marriage partner and teach them to foster friendships with the opposite sex as young people.

As for chastity, it’s no big mystery, just the appropriate “use” of your sexuality for your state in life.

 

[Roguish]

Or maybe a lot of arranged marriages just occur in cultures where divorce/separation carry a huge stigma, especially for women.

Or because there is a massive stigma attached to failed marriages?

I should have seen that coming.

Where I live divorce is frowned on, yes, is that a bad thing? Should divorce be considered “perfectly alright”? Divorce is a horrible, ugly, and painful affair, and for a society to consider it “fine” is hardly an indication of its spiritual or ethical health.

Anyway, I can assure you this isn’t the reason why arranged marriages tend to be stable and enduring. They are such because they are loving – not because “the women are actually unhappy but they’re too afraid to divorce.” It is condescending of you to think you know better. I’d say, go live for a decade or two in a country where arranged marriage is the norm, see how well these marriages work from up close, then come back here and comment.

Anyway, never mind. Westerners will never stop offering this (what you wrote) as the explanation for the low divorce-rate in arranged-marriage countries, in an attempt to “explain away” the problem that the divorce rate is through-the-roof in the West, and pre-marital sex is very common there. There is a stubborn refusal to face that fact that arranged marriage actually works very well and eliminates a few very serious problems. Yet, that’s the truth.

And by the way, arranged marriage was the norm in Europe too at least up until the early 20th century. So it’s not like arranged marriage didn’t exist in the West. It did, until the West decided to have its “liberating age” (sexual revolution etc.) while certain other parts of the world remained more traditional.

P.S. The number-one institution that continues to put a “stigma” on divorce is the RCC, by declaring it impossible. And She’s right to do so.

 

[Richca]

Many of the first christians were martyred for being chaste and for the faith. We haven’t reached that point here yet in the US and some other countries though the culture is getting very pagan like the pagan cultures the first christians lived in. So, in this sense, since we haven’t had to sacrifice our lives yet in the US for being chaste and for the faith, we are not as in such a difficult situation as the first christians being thrown to the lions. In other words, don’t think that we are living in a more difficult time at least in some places today on the earth than the first christians were living in. However, there are some places on the earth today where christians are being very persecuted to the point of death and being martyred for their faith like the first christians.

 

[AdamP88]

Where I live divorce is frowned on, yes, is that a bad thing? Should divorce be considered “perfectly alright”? Divorce is a horrible, ugly, and painful affair, and for a society to consider it “fine” is hardly an indication of its spiritual or ethical health.

I agree. I also think that the stigma around divorce is not necessarily a bad thing.

They are such because they are loving

I doubt that is always the case.

Westerners will never stop offering this (what you wrote) as the explanation for the low divorce-rate in arranged-marriage countries, in an attempt to “explain away” the problem that the divorce rate is through-the-roof in the West, and pre-marital sex is very common there.

There’s no point painting such a rosy view of the “arranged-marriage” culture. The West’s casual approach to sex and marriage is no worse than some of these countries where arranged marriages, sometimes against the will of both or either parties, is the norm.

 

[goout]

when one is sexually virile, to remain truly and perpetually chaste is of the order of supernatural grace, it is naturally impossible to remain perpetually chaste when one is not asexual

It is difficult but possible with grace. Like just about any other virtue.

 

[Aquinas11]

Where I live divorce is frowned on, yes, is that a bad thing? Should divorce be considered “perfectly alright”? Divorce is a horrible, ugly, and painful affair, and for a society to consider it “fine” is hardly an indication of its spiritual or ethical health.

Unfortunately we’re living in a time where personal vanity and hedonism trumps welfare of the innocent who are destroyed by divorce.

Anyway, I can assure you this isn’t the reason why arranged marriages tend to be stable and enduring. They are such because they are loving – not because “the women are actually unhappy but they’re too afraid to divorce.” It is condescending of you to think you know better. I’d say, go live for a decade or two in a country where arranged marriage is the norm, see how well these marriages work from up close, then come back here and comment.

NOt to mention that when two kids in their late teens or early 20s meet, and the hormones start to go crazy, the rational part of the brain literally shuts down because the hormones just tell them to “make babies! make babies!” so even when red flags appear they’re often ignored , hence why a parent such as father choosing a spouse who they already knows has good morals, values, etc helps avoid them marrying patner with red flags

 

[1ke]

And by the way, arranged marriage was the norm in Europe too at least up until the early 20th century.

For some of the nobility, yes.

In general, no.

 

[GospelOfMatthew]

20YO college male here, I’m waiting for marriage and I give chastity and anti-porn talks at my college. Some people are very receptive, more then you would expect

 

[PennyinCanada]

When a couple is dating, the woman takes on the risk of pregnancy if they are sexually active. Being single and pregnant has proven to be a train wreck in this culture. It impacts her job, her education, her health, and with the number of abortions somewhere around 60 million in the US alone, it is obviously terrible and tragic for babies.

 

[edwest]

In Italy, they are finding out what happens when you have lots of sex, no kids and double incomes.

Meanwhile, in the United States, after years of irrational sex education, this is what happens:

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2018/p0828-increases-in-stds.html

 

[Mboo]

I think it’s not true. one can live well without stealing without the help of a supernatural grace, this is not the case of the sin of lust

 

[goout]

I think it’s not true. one can live well without stealing without the help of a supernatural grace, this is not the case of the sin of lust

Can you explain? You seem to be saying that lust is an unavoidable sin.

 

[on_the_hill]

As the father of two teenage girls, I say chastity is a good thing.

As a 51 year old man with a lot of life experiences, I think one can find a perfect spouse with or without chastity. I know people we fell deeply in love long before they even became a couple, let alone engaged in sexual activity. And I know people who were not chaste (teenage pregnancy), got married, and were blissfully happy for decades until death did them part.

 

[Mboo]

one can not naturally remain perpetually chaste when one is normally virile. It is absolutely necessary to have the help of supernatural grace to preserve chastity.
Polygamy has always been accepted in societies that have not had a Christian tradition. This proves that chastity is not natural, unlike other virtues.

 

[goout]

one can not naturally remain perpetually chaste when one is normally virile. It is absolutely necessary to have the help of supernatural grace to preserve chastity.
Polygamy has always been accepted in societies that have not had a Christian tradition. This proves that chastity is not natural, unlike other virtues.

I am not sure where we disagree.