What are your thoughts on suicide?

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Gorgias said:
So… if suicide is culpably mortal sin – and therefore, a rational act – then we must conclude that dwellers in urban areas (that is, “blue” areas), are irrational? 🤔 🤣 😉
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I’m sorry, I have no idea what your point is. I grew up in a rural area. I went to school in a very liberal urban area. Now I live in the suburbs. The suicide rate is going up nationally, such that it has reached the highest level since World War II. The rates are going up for males and females, young and old, rural and urban. It is a devastating reason to lose a loved one.

That represents a lot of people who are seriously suffering, then. Thinking “red” and “blue” is so irrelevant. It is sad, because I think there are a lot of people in the “blue” and “red” areas who each think that the other “area” doesn’t take them seriously as human beings with serious thoughts and feelings about life.
 
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Today we understand that suicide is most often caused by depression and other mental illnesses, and that it tends to be spur-of-the-moment as well. Based on that it’s theologically wrong to say “Suicides always go to Hell” because most of them lack a requirement for a sin to be mortal (lacking full knowledge, deliberate consent, or both).

As for the deterrence, any good derived from that is more than countered by bad. If a person dies then his family members will naturally mourn him, and if you tell them “your loved one is assuredly in Hell” then it will push people away from God.
 
During the real estate recession many people committed suicide because they lost everything - their house, their savings or their business or their farm. So it doesn’t always have to be mental issues.
 
Bird_lover said:
I’ve heard (no references) that suicide was once taught to be a mortal sin, not just because it violates the Fifth Commandment, but also to deter others from considering it as an escape to suffering. I was told suicide occurred so much, somebody in the Church’s hierarchy deemed it a mortal sin to deter others from considering it (fear of hell is one good way to stop terrible actions)
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Back when Christianity started, a lot of the pagan cultures surrounding them had customs surrounding suicide—for instance if a man became too old and frail and he was t considered manly enough any more, or a woman who was raped might commit suicide to prove she was honorable and not bring shame on her family.

Sometimes new Christian converts did this because they didn’t know any better yet, their catechesis hadn’t progressed that far.

Nowadays, suicide is more likely to result from an extreme mental state (although we’re seeing a drift towards the old pagan customs with assisted suicide).
 
Suicide is wrong, sinful, etc. That much has not changed.

Mental health issues are very real and I believe is now recognized that the culpability of the person could be lessened by that. We leave the situation to the mercy of a loving God.
 
PetraG said:
I’m sorry, I have no idea what your point is. I grew up in a rural area. I went to school in a very liberal urban area. Now I live in the suburbs.
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You earlier made the point that suicide can be due to other reasons than irrationality. Then, you pointed out that suicide rates in rural areas are on the rise. Rural areas tend to be correlated with “red” politics, while urban areas tend toward “blue” politics. Putting the three observations together, I made the tongue-in-cheek remark that this seems to correlating toward the assertion that “blue” areas are more irrational than “red” areas. 😉
PetraG said:
Thinking “red” and “blue” is so irrelevant
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Again, notice the “🤣” smiley. It was tongue-in-cheek. 😉
 
Amen. Many people who resort to suicide are not of sound mind and should not be found accountable for their actions. But, in the end, it is all up to God to judge each and everyone of us for our actions.
 
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Gorgias,
there is a statistical element involved in these reports.
I lived and worked in Alaska as a Paramedic which also had a higher rate compared to the rest of the states.
I now live back out in the country in my childhood southern Indiana home…much sparsely populated than states with larger cities.

However, as in the what seems like drastic increase could also be a fact there is a smaller population to draw numbers from.
Like when I was in Alaska, proportionately it would have maybe been a little higher but due to the small population it ranks higher with the other states who outnumber inhabitants many fold.

I wold also include the introduction of high volume, easy access drugs such as meth and heroin, ect…

Sorry, gotta run to morning mass.

M
 
PetraG said:
People can commit suicide for reasons that are spiteful, impulsive, defiant, or with motives other than irrational depression. They can have a callous disregard for their own lives just as a murderer can have a callous disregard for the life of another, without being depressed.
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Neither I nor the mystery writer whom I cited mentioned anything about depression. Everything that you mentioned can drive people to irrationality. I stand by what I said.

D
 
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People who commit suicide don’t want to die; they just don’t know how to go on living.
 
The Church doesn’t teach that it is impossible for a person possessing rational thought to deliberately commit suicide. Why would a gravely immoral act be removed from the list of mortal sins? Because no rational person would ever even consider it? I think that is over-expanding judgement of a lot of people and situations you cannot possibly know.

After all, some argue that no rational person would ever choose to sin mortally, if they truly understood what they were doing. It implies we’re incapable of rejecting God, because it is of course irrational. In that case, though, Our Lord took flesh and died for no reason, because no one was ever in danger of being held responsible for choosing death instead of life in the first place.
 
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I believe that the general spread of godlessness and irreligiosity will continue to lead to an increase in suicide rates across the board. If there is no merit in suffering, if there is nothing outside the physical self, then there’s no reason to live if you face suffering.

Couple that with the cult of climate disaster and the ever-growing call for the decrease of human population by so-called green-advocates, and you have a recipe for people killing themselves to “save the planet.”

This is what happens when creation is exalted above the creator, and even moreso when the creator Himself is denied.

As for the nature of the sin, if you are in your right mind then I do honestly believe it is a mortal sin that will result in damnation. God is merciful, but that is a pretty final “no” to His gift of life. Still, there is always hope. I recall Padre Pio telling a mother that her son had been spared damnation because he repented as he was falling to his self-inflicted death. We should never discount the possibility of salvation for those who commit suicide, but objectively speaking it is a grave and final sin…

As for those with metal disturbances, I honestly think that if they were otherwise Heaven-bound their suicide would not be an impediment, because it is not necessarily within their power to control.
 
I have a family member that committed suicide, and I made sure to write his name in The Book of the Dead for November, and I pray for the Repose of his soul, which is what I think we should do when anyone dies.
 
Suicide is a grave act.

It MAY be mortal sin if it meets the other two requirements for mortal sin.

Catechism gives a good high level explaination:

Suicide

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.
 
Try going to YouTube, type in “Euthanasia Assisted Suicide”, and a bunch of videos will pop up of people committing suicide probably in the most peaceful way possible.

You’ll watch someone electively die right before your eyes.

It’s still awful.

Seriously.

I’ve seen some of those videos, and it’s like - when people commit suicide - it’s like something is missing.

I have no idea why I think it, but it seems like we’re not supposed to just stop… even if we’re struggling…

Maybe I just think that because we believe God is in control, and our lives are not our own…

but… really… watching those videos put the whole idea of suicide in a completely different light for me…
 
TheLittleLady said:
Suicide is a grave act.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.
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Without judging your post one way or the other - I wanted to add…

Please be careful on this point…

One of my best friend’s children committed suicide by shooting himself in the head after a family fight… The young man was on meds at a psychiatric hospital, but he had been dropping them unbeknownst to others… and, when he came home for a visit, a family dispute came up… everyone went to neutral corners… and then he locked himself in his room and so on…

The nightmares they have suffered ever since are incredibly sad…

In other words, while I am very aware of the words you quoted, we have to remember the bottom line about not despairing…

And most of all… we have to be very merciful and compassionate to the families, who have to live with the aftermath of it all…
 
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