What are your views on blood/plasma donation?

[Hitetlen]

oldfogey:

From Stedman’s Medical Dictionary, 27th Edition (2000):

pregnancy. The state of a female after conception and until the termination of the gestation.

So if pregnancy begins at conception (by the medical definition), then, by your own standards of argument, the morning after pill is abortion.

OK, so let’s look up conception from the same source:

conception

1. 
   *]Syn: concept
   *]Act of forming a general idea or notion.
   *]**Act of conceiving; the implantation of the blastocyte in the endometrium. **
   
   [L. *conceptio; see concept]
   
   Clarification complete: pregnancy starts with the implantation, not the forming of the zygote. So, as I said, the morning after pill is NOT an abortion.

 

[Hitetlen]

5-Decades-a-Day:

Here’s an idea… why don’t you go donate ALL of your blood, and let us know how it goes.

Nice try, but no cigar. I did not advocate donating ALL your blood.

 

[Karin]

Definition of Conception

Conception: 1. The union of the sperm and the ovum. Synonymous with fertilization.
Definition of Pregnancy

*Pregnancy: The state of carrying a developing embryo or fetus within the female body. This condition can be indicated by positive results on an over-the-counter urine test, and confirmed through a blood test, ultrasound, detection of fetal heartbeat, or an X-ray. Pregnancy lasts for about nine months, measured from the date of the woman’s last menstrual period (LMP). It is conventionally divided into three trimesters, each roughly three months long.

medterms.com/
*

 

[5-Decades-a-Day]

Hitetlen:

Nice try, but no cigar. I did not advocate donating ALL your blood.

Actually, I was talking about YOU donating all of YOURS. (That didn’t go over your head, did it?)

 

[jman507]

I don’t know how much the definitions matter. If we are talking about sin, its a sin to try to directly terminate the process to become pregnant.

 

[Hitetlen]

5-Decades-a-Day:

Actually, I was talking about YOU donating all of YOURS. (That didn’t go over your head, did it?)

Not that it is relevant, but how do you know that I did not? The average body has about 5 liters of blood, and even donating one deciliter at a time one will reach that 5 liter limit quite fast.

Now, what was your point? Was there any significance, or did you just try to derail the thread?

 

[Hitetlen]

Definition of Conception

Conception: 1. The union of the sperm and the ovum. Synonymous with fertilization.**
Definition of Pregnancy

Pregnancy: The state of carrying a developing embryo or fetus within the female body. This condition can be indicated by positive results on an over-the-counter urine test, and confirmed through a blood test, ultrasound, detection of fetal heartbeat, or an X-ray. Pregnancy lasts for about nine months, measured from the date of the woman’s last menstrual period (LMP). It is conventionally divided into three trimesters, each roughly three months long.

So what? Different people use slightly different definitions. It only highlights that application to authority is a useless process.

To say that fertilization and conception are synonymous renders one of these words useless and makes the source sloppy at best. Since there is a significant difference in the prospective life of implanted and non-implanted zygotes it makes perfectly good sense and use two different terms to make the correct distinction.

 

[Hitetlen]

jman507:

I don’t know how much the definitions matter. If we are talking about sin, its a sin to try to directly terminate the process to become pregnant.

That is your opinion, which I respect, but discard as irrelevant. And, yes, definitions matter, they allow mutual understanding.

 

[Karin]

Hitetlen :
You know I just read your profile…since you state that your religion is NONE…this is a mute point anyway…
so lets get back to the OP and leave abortions out of the discussion as they really have nothing to do with it (IMHO).

 

[YinYangMom]

Hitetlen:

Do you consider it a sin NOT to donate blood or plasma? Since these are both in great demand to help to save other people’s lives and there is never enough of them in the blood banks, it would stand to reason that Catholics should be urged to be there donatig at every possible opportunity.

Nowhere have I seen an ongoing urge to perform this minor sacrifice for the ones in need. I wonder why? Is it not a sin to withhold help? Or are these resources considered part of our body - unlike the money we make (and charity is emphasised from the pulpit)?

Blood and/or plasma donation is not for everybody. Some people’s veins don’t accommodate the procedure…some people are on medications which are incompatible for donating…some people have health conditions which would prohibit them from participating so there’s no way it could be a sin not to donate.

Donation is one of many, many ways we are able to reach out to assist others in need. God asks that we do what we can, He doesn’t spell out specifically what that entails. If my body can accommodate donations, but my mind cannot, or my obligations to others keep me from doing so, then that cannot be a sin. A sin is knowingly and willingly doing or not doing something which is of ‘grave’ matter. If I financially contribute $1000 to the Red Cross or the local Blood Donation organization but do not give blood myself, what is the difference?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Hitetlen:

Do you consider it a sin NOT to donate blood or plasma? Since these are both in great demand to help to save other people’s lives and there is never enough of them in the blood banks, it would stand to reason that Catholics should be urged to be there donatig at every possible opportunity.

Moreover, the donation of these substances is at most a minor inconvenience without any danger to the health of the donor, and they are both renewable bodily resources one would expect a preponderance of Catholic donors.

Nowhere have I seen an ongoing urge to perform this minor sacrifice for the ones in need. I wonder why? Is it not a sin to withhold help? Or are these resources considered part of our body - unlike the money we make (and charity is emphasised from the pulpit)?

Seeing that the blood banks gain a profit from the storage and sale of blood products that are donated to them it is not a sin to provide your blood for the profit of others.

Just look at the salary of the CEO of the Red Cross.

 

[jman507]

Hitetlen:

That is your opinion, which I respect, but discard as irrelevant. And, yes, definitions matter, they allow mutual understanding.

So what exactly is the difference before and after the zygote implants? As far as what I considar what is a sin it is directly trying to terminate the life of this being, both before and after. Many zygotes have died, so have many fetuses, and so have many babies after being born. If this happens natural or as an accident it is not a sin. If done on purpose then it is a sin.

I guess while we are trying to get on some mutal understanding, can you tell me what is a sin?

 

[Hitetlen]

jman507:

So what exactly is the difference before and after the zygote implants? As far as what I considar what is a sin it is directly trying to terminate the life of this being, both before and after. Many zygotes have died, so have many fetuses, and so have many babies after being born. If this happens natural or as an accident it is not a sin. If done on purpose then it is a sin.

The difference is simple: unless the zygote is implanted, it has no chance of evolving into a human being and it has no effect on the female’s body. If it does implant, it just made the first step (but only the first step) toward the final destination: to become a human being. Also it starts to have effect on the female’s body - quite unpleasant at the beginning, for example morning sickness. An example: it is just like an acorn on the ground or buried in the ground. The first one cannot grow into an oak tree, the second one - MAY. Mind you, the process is still not certain (either for the zygote or the acron) but at least the first step is taken.

jman507:

I guess while we are trying to get on some mutal understanding, can you tell me what is a sin?

For me the word “sin” has multiple meanings (as do many other words). On this board it is mainly used in the religious sense: disobedience to God. Of course if someone does not believe in God (I don’t) that meaning becomes vacuous.

There are several “problems” here: no one knows for sure if God exists or not, but some people believe it from the bottom of their heart. However, no one can really know what God’s wishes are. God does not manifest himself to us, so the best people can do is rely on the Bible (which has been written by fallible humans) or rely on perceived authority (the Church) which is also comprized of fallible humans. So at best, people who talk about “sin” and God’s will declare what they think God’s will is. Since I don’t accept Bible or the Church as reliable authority, I discard the concept of religious sin completely.

 

[BlindSheep]

From the moment I started reading this post I knew it was a setup for the “violinist argument” for abortion (woman wakes up and finds herself hooked up to an unconscious violinist to keep him alive, does she have the right to separate herself). However, this argument concedes that the unborn is a human being. The argument is that we are not obligated to allow another human being to use our body to stay alive. Correct?
A couple of problems with this, as well as with the related blood/organ donation analogy, are:

1. The recipient/violinist is already dying of natural causes.
2. Active, artificial intervention is the only way to save him. Inaction would result in his death.
3. The unborn child is healthy and could survive if no action is taken to prevent it.
4. The active intervention in the morning after pill/abortion case is done to prevent the unborn from continuing to live. Inaction is considered unacceptable precisely because the unborn child may survive.
5. The relationship between the people matters - the parent/child relationship involves certain obligations which other relationships do not.

 

[Listener]

Donating blood is a charitable act, like a corporal work of mercy. It is not a sin if you don’t do it. One person might be charitable by donating blood. Another person might be charitable by making sandwiches for the hungry, etc.

I haven’t donated blood for years - the last time I did it, my field of vision turned black, and I ended up on the floor. I am not afraid of blood, but I think it just took too much out of me. I would always feel weak for a week afterwards. Once, I went for a walk several days after giving blood, and I thought I was going to fall over.

I decided that giving blood was not for me, and I should do a different work of mercy. The 5th Commandment commands us to take care of both our physical and spiritual well being. This will mean different things for different people.

 

[jman507]

Hitetlen:

The difference is simple: unless the zygote is implanted, it has no chance of evolving into a human being and it has no effect on the female’s body. If it does implant, it just made the first step (but only the first step) toward the final destination: to become a human being. Also it starts to have effect on the female’s body - quite unpleasant at the beginning, for example morning sickness. An example: it is just like an acorn on the ground or buried in the ground. The first one cannot grow into an oak tree, the second one - MAY. Mind you, the process is still not certain (either for the zygote or the acron) but at least the first step is taken.

For me the word “sin” has multiple meanings (as do many other words). On this board it is mainly used in the religious sense: disobedience to God. Of course if someone does not believe in God (I don’t) that meaning becomes vacuous.

There are several “problems” here: no one knows for sure if God exists or not, but some people believe it from the bottom of their heart. However, no one can really know what God’s wishes are. God does not manifest himself to us, so the best people can do is rely on the Bible (which has been written by fallible humans) or rely on perceived authority (the Church) which is also comprized of fallible humans. So at best, people who talk about “sin” and God’s will declare what they think God’s will is. Since I don’t accept Bible or the Church as reliable authority, I discard the concept of religious sin completely.

How long does it take you to think up of these things. First off th