What beliefs do you see as a cult?

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Marilena:
Can you list some?

Scientology?
JW’s?
Mormon’s?
Mormon Fundamentalists?

What is your opinion?

Iam only asking because I have heard alot of talk that people
think these beliefs are cults. Can someone give me a definition
of what makes a belief as a cult?

I can think of a valid one, where the members are kept from questioning their belief, and told that if they exercise independent
thinking, and investigate it, they are not trusting God, ext. What do you think?
The term ‘cult’ was long used in the RCC to specify certain movments with a particular form of devotion, to Mary, for example. The word was picked up by social scientists as a neutral way to refer to certain sorts of new relgious movements, usually movements which were in the first to second generation of their birth and develpment. By this understanding, Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christian Science, the Baha’i Faith, and so forth, would NOT be cults. All of these have moved into later phases of development as religious movements. Even the Unification Church of Sun Myung Moon would be moving out of the ‘cult’ phase of it’s existence into what would be deemed a ‘sect’.

In the late 1950’s and 1960’s and especially in the 1970’s the term was picked up by journalists seeking a way to describe off-beat religious movements, not all of them necessarily ‘new’. So Zen Buddhism, the Krishna sect of Hinduism, etcetera, began to be lumped together with such groups as the Unificationists, Children of God/Family of Love, People’s Temple, etcetera as ‘cults’. In journalistic understanding the term simply seemed to mean a non-traditional or novel religious group, especially one which seemed authoritarian and/or which was clearly out-of-sync with the broader American culture. Often the implication was that a groups styled a ‘cult’ was somehow vaguely or expressly dangerous.

Evangelical Christians picked up on this. Since post-WWII Americans have become increasingly uninterested in claims of ‘absolute truth’. Labeling a group as a ‘heresy’ was often ineffectual. People would challenge the label by asking by what right Evangelicals declared one group a ‘heresy’ or not–after all, don’t Roman Catholics consider Evangelicalism a heresy too? On the other hand, calling a group a ‘cult’ seemed to be a way of saying, “Hey–those guys over there: they’re DANGEROUS! Stay away from them!”

Expropriating the term ‘cult’ allowed Evangelicals to gain a hearing about whatever criticisms they had of a specific group. Often, if you actually READ what the Evangelicals said about Mormons, JW’s and so forth, you realized they were simply asserting these groups were ‘heresies’. (As opposed to certain groups such as the Solar Temple, the Waco group, some of the Mormon fundamentalist sects, certain Satanist organizations, probably also Scientology, all of which really are dangerous to the unwary).

I’m not suggesting that heresy or false doctrine are not spiritually dangerous, or that spiritual poison is somehow less dangerous than literal poison. My point is that the term is unfairly appropriated by Evangelicals to shock and frighten, and ought to be used with greater care. In most cases we would be better advised to use terms such as ‘false doctrine’ or ‘heresy’ to label teaching we disagree with; To call groups proposing novel or unfamiliar doctrines ‘new religous movments’ or ‘minority faiths’ rather than use a loaded term such as ‘cult’.

Just my opinion.
 
I think in the broad sense a cult is any religion that hasn’t obtained worldwide acknowlagement.
In that case, first century Christianity would have been a cult…😛

(Although the it was considered organized atheism under Roman law–any religion that didn’t worship the pagan Roman gods was considered atheistic.)

-ACEGC
 
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Marilena:
Can you list some?

Scientology?
JW’s?
Mormon’s?
Mormon Fundamentalists?

What is your opinion?

Iam only asking because I have heard alot of talk that people
think these beliefs are cults. Can someone give me a definition
of what makes a belief as a cult?
When I was growing up “cult” wasn’t a bad word or thing and I don’t remember when, exactly, I first heard the word used disparagingly (maybe as late as the late 1950’ or early 1960’s?). The 4th edition of the American Heritage dictionary (which I have on my computer and so makes it easy to copy and paste) gives, as the first definition…
A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
…so I would accept all of those that you’ve named but I would insist that early Christianity itself would have fit the definition, too. It’s also difficult to pin-point exactly when a ‘cult’ becomes a ‘religion’. To be honest, I think that for the disparaging use of the word to be correct, the definition needs to be modified to include something which would include ‘delusion’ as delusion is understood by modern psychiatry. This begins to narrow the field, somewhat.

This definition, then, might exclude some of the groups that you mentioned while allowing for such groups as those “Heaven’s Gate” people who committed suicide convinced that the Hale-Bopp comet was picking them up for a ride. Now there’s a cult using my slightly modified definition.

While some may include Mormons within cult, still, because, as you’ll find looking over posts by Mormons on this board, their belief in the truth of the LDS church is, they admit, because of revelation from God and not by rationalization, it has to be accepted that there are some Catholics who, while never claiming personal revelation, have never questioned what they have been taught, never set out to prove their faith by applying reason, and simply believe because they believe - they have faith because they have faith. In one sense, this does seem delusional - both on the part of the Mormon and of this type Catholic. Nonetheless, I don’t believe that psychiatrists would call either delusional. I wish, in one respect, that I could have been one of those Catholics who could continue to believe by faith alone - to have had no doubts to be wrestled with and to have never gave found myself in a position to making myself subject to reason to continue in my faith. But, in my case, faith and reason have always triumphed and I remain, to this day, an orthodox Catholic.

So if we allow Catholics who remain so by faith alone to be considered as behaving in a ‘non-cultish’ manner, I think we must allow that of Mormons as well.

So while I accept all those on your list as cults I include Christianity (Catholicism) and have to insist that for the derisive term of ‘cult’ to be applicable it must exist with another element - which I choose to call delusion.

Does this mean, then, that there are relatively few true cults? I would say no. I would say that we only become aware of such cults when they make the news and that we might find cults within our own neighborhoods if we looked. For an example of the former, I would point to the “Heaven’s Gate” folks, the followers of Jim Jones, and the Branch Davidians (and, possibly, certain sects of the FLDS) who we become aware of because, in their delusion, they commit acts that make the news. As to the ‘cults within our own neighborhoods’ - there is a small white building probably less than two miles from my home which serves as a meeting place for a group of people who believe that their leader is a true prophet of God and that he, alone, has all of the answers and is able to correctly interpret the Bible. They are fundamentalists, to a degree, but they deviate in that, instead of believing that each member is guided by the Holy Spirit in interpreting the Bible, they believe that this one charismatic leader is the sole authority. A small group and while giant subdivisions gave grown up around the church in the 30+ years that it’s been around, most of the members have refrained from selling out to developers and remain living close to the ‘church’ in a tight community: not really living, as the dictionary definition gives “in an unconventional manner” but definitely “under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader” and a (unnamed, as far as I’ve been able to discover) “religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false” by those who know something of it or have left it and, as I’ve further insisted, delusional concerning (at the very least) the ‘gifts’ attributed to the leader.

I haven’t looked at the other replies yet and am anxious to do so! Just wanted to get my two-cents in without being influenced by others first!
 
Frank Fenn:
What about evolution? Does this not qualify?
Good question husband of mine! 🙂 I’d like to know this as well.
Can one consider evolution to be a cult of sorts? Occult?
 
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nico1089:
Hi–I posted the Oxford English Dictionary for the definition of cult in post #2 . What defintion are you guys using? What does “cult” mean that it is so derogatory toward a person of a different faith? thanks, nicolo
Nico-

I grew up with the basic understanding of the term that you have given from the OED. However, I wonder if that definition has changed in the current OED (which is available online for a pretty hefty annual subscription)? I gave a definition in my first post which gives the American Heritage, 4th edition, first definition and, as I said, I can’t recall when I first heard the term used in a derogatory fashion. I said possibly as early as the latter 1950’s-early 1960’s but if there is an etymologist around here (or maybe someone with access to the online edition of the OED) I would love to know an approximate time that the ‘old’ benign definition was replaced by the ‘new’ derogatory definition.

I’m perfectly willing to stand by the old definition and call Christianity a cult. Those that seem most opposed to having their religion being called a cult are taking the ‘newer’ American definition as the most correct definition. This makes me even more curious as to the etymology of the new definition as it may be that it is uniquely American in origin.
 
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Petergee:
I don’t think “weird beliefs” is enough to make a cult. (Yes I know cult is really just another word for religion or religious practice but I’m referring to the popular modern usage.) To someone who had never heard them before, some Catholic beliefs such as the belief that what appears to be bread and wine is the living body and blood of a man who died 2000 years ago, would be very weird.

In addition to weird beliefs, think a cult involves most or all of the following:
  1. Mind control - members are told they must not think for themselves but obey orders unquestioningly. The slightest doubt about any belief is condemned as a sign of evil. Often brainwashing techniques are used.
  2. Exclusivism - Everyone outside the cult (including other religions and organisations and the government) is dismissed as unspeakably evil and not to be associated with, or actively combatted.
  3. Secretiveness -The leader and/or senior members are told secret beliefs/practices which are not revealed to ordinary members. In contrast to other religions which enthusiastically publicise their beliefs and writings to seek converts, the cult’s beliefs and writings are carefully hidden from non-members.
  4. Sexual Immorality - often the beliefs include “reasons” why the leader/senior members should receive sexual favours from junior members. Often members are told who they must marry and who they may associate with. They may be told to have no contact with family members or even to divorce their spouse.
  5. Compulsion - members who want/try to leave are placed under great psychological or even physical restraint to prevent them doing so.
  6. Absurd Contradictions and abrupt changes in doctrine - when under pressure from government or public criticism or when eg the predicted end of the world does not eventuate, somebeliefs are simply deleted and changed and members are expected to immediately dump them and embrace the new replacement beliefs.
Some religions which are not cults may have one or two of these to some extent, but no more.
1, 2, 3, & 5 certainly fit the description of my ‘neighborhood cult’ although, to my knowledge, not 6 and certainly not 4.

Yet those are all, I think, valid points to look for when making a determination as to what is, and what is not, a cult. As I added “delusion” or delusional thinking, I would also add that to the list and make as objective a ‘rule’ as possible that not all criteria MUST be met to determine ‘cult’ but that a major number of observed instances or situations allows for the pejorative use of the word ‘cult’.
 
Frank Fenn:
What about evolution? Does this not qualify?
I wouldn’t think so because, if for no other reason, the term is too broad: you couldn’t quite called monotheism a cult, for example, because it’s only definition is a belief in one god rather than a plurality of gods.

Evolution is even broader and, even if we restrict it to sciences, means different things in biology, mathematics, psychology, etc. I’m not even sure that any criteria, no matter how broad, used to define ‘cult’ could be used to define even the most specific use of ‘evolution’ as used to define theory.

While I realize that an argument could be made that those who believe that a certain theory of biological evolution has been proven to be empirically true and that those who believe this have made a ‘religion’ of their beliefs, this quite stretches all terms of theory, truth, and religion, and is far beyond the scope of this thread and, if a case is to be made for ‘evolution as cult’ should be a topic for another thread as I fear it is grossly ‘off-topic’ in this discussion.

Not trying to play moderator, just to moderate before a moderator feels the need to step in!
 
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Marilena:
Good question husband of mine! 🙂 I’d like to know this as well.
Can one consider evolution to be a cult of sorts? Occult?
I’d like to point out - and quickly lest much be made of it - that there is no relation between cult (Latin: cultus, meaning worship, care for, honor, etc.) and occult (Latin: occultus, meaning hidden or secret, etc.). There is no way to make a linguistic leap from one word to the other (not even in the manner that one can make a leap from “attire”, meaning clothing, to “tire”, meaning the rubber on a wheel rim, quite easily in English). There is no common stem in the letters “cult” that reach from worship to secret and there should be no speculation that one is dependent on the other.

Just didn’t want anyone jumping on any sort of secret worship bandwagon…
 
Since you’ve been discussing “cults” I thought an article about “distinguishing the Baha’i Faith from a cult” may be of interest to some of you…

bahai-library.com/essays/cult.html

In this definition the elements include:

A strong leader…

The use of controlling techniques…

Social and physical isolation…

Extremist or fanatical behaviour…

Secrecy and deception…
  • Art
 
**From the book “Cults too good to be true” By Raphael Aron **

*Definition: A cult is a group or movement that, to a significant degree, (a) Exhibits great or excessive devotion or dedication to some idea or thing, (b) uses a thought reform program to persuade, control and socialize members. (i.e. to integrate them into the group’s unique pattern of relationships, beliefs, values and practices), (c) systematically induces states of psychological dependency in members, 9d) exploits members to advance the leadership’s goals, and (e) causes psychological harm to members, their families and the community. *

**Eight Characteristics of a Cult **
  1. Milieu Control: Refers to total control of communication in the groups; for example, no gossip or expression of doubt about the group. Members have to report peers who break any rules. Have limited or no contact with relatives and ignore anything in the media.
  2. Loading of the language: is the imposition of a language which is unique to the cult. The continued use of particular clichés and expressions creates a sense of camaraderie, which unites the members and sets them apart from the world, which, in some groups, is described as satanic, evil or unclean
  3. A demand for purity: refers to a radical separation of good and bad. The cult is right, the world is wrong. Acts are either good or bad and people are viewed in black-and-white terms. Purity allows the cult to let the ends justify the means; deception and lying are acceptable if they serve the pure aim of the cult. Most apocalyptic cults spread the message that you are either a member of the group – and will survive, or you are not – and won’t survive. In order to save people and draw them into the group, you can lie, because those who are saved will ultimately appreciate your action.
  4. Confession: Refers to the process by which members admit everything about their past and present behavior. Although the members is told that the confession will set him free, in effect it binds him to the group. Later on, the information can be used against him. Leaving the cult becomes more difficult, as the member feels that he will have left behind an intimate part of himself.
  5. Mystical Manipulation: — or planned spontaneity— refers to a process whereby the members feel they have chosen to belong to the group; a belief is created that allegiance to the cult is a totally voluntary act. Events in the cult are planned to look spontaneous, when, in fact, they are carefully orchestrated by the leadership
 
  1. Doctrine Over person: requires the member to interpret reality through the cult doctrine and to ignore personal experiences or reality. If the member’s experience is disregarded. Contradictions become associated with guilt; doubt indicates one’s own deficiency or evil.
  2. Sacred Science : refers to the leader’s claim to wisdom and the fact that his philosophy and belief system are relevant to all humankind. Anyone who disagrees is not only immoral but unscientific.
  3. Dispending of existence: means that those who have not seen the light are wedded to evil, tainted and lack the right to exist. Hence a cult member threatened with being cast into outer darkness may experience a fear of extinction or collapse. This is the final step in creating members’ dependence on the group.
This is all quoted from the book. Cults too good to be true by Raphael Aron

Evanescence
 
A sarcastic person once told me that a cult is any religion that does not have a college football team. I mentioned BYU and he said give it a couple of years, people will start to accept the Mormons…and…it kinda seems like they are as I think back…
BH
 
Hi Marilena, I learned about cults from Water Martin.

He defines a cult as, “By cultism we mean the adherence to doctrines which are pointedly contradictory to orthodox Christianity and which yet claim the distinction of either tracing their origin to orthodox sources or of being in essential harmony with those sources. Cultism, in short, is any major deviation from orthodox Christianity relative to the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith.”

answers.com/topic/cult

A cult, then, is a group of people polarized around someone’s interpretation of the Bible and is characterized by major deviations from orthodox Christianity relative to the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith, particularly the fact that God became man in Jesus Christ (Walter Martin, The Rise of the Cults, p. 12).

greatcom.org/resources/handbook_of_todays_religions/01chap01/default.htm

google.com/search?q=Walter+Martin+cult+definition&hl=en&lr=&start=10&sa=N
 
Daniel Marsh:
Hi Marilena, I learned about cults from Water Martin.

He defines a cult as, “By cultism we mean the adherence to doctrines which are pointedly contradictory to orthodox Christianity and which yet claim the distinction of either tracing their origin to orthodox sources or of being in essential harmony with those sources. Cultism, in short, is any major deviation from orthodox Christianity relative to the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith.”

answers.com/topic/cult

A cult, then, is a group of people polarized around someone’s interpretation of the Bible and is characterized by major deviations from orthodox Christianity relative to the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith, particularly the fact that God became man in Jesus Christ (Walter Martin, The Rise of the Cults, p. 12).

greatcom.org/resources/handbook_of_todays_religions/01chap01/default.htm

google.com/search?q=Walter+Martin+cult+definition&hl=en&lr=&start=10&sa=N
The problem with this definition is that a lot of anti-Catholic protestant groups point to Dr. Martin’s work and say that by these standards, the Catholic Church is a cult. It all hinges on whose definition of orthodox Christianity you apply to it.

Nope, no need for Sacred Tradition to clarify the truths of the Bible and set a definitive standard of truth. :rolleyes:
 
This recent article from Catholic Answers’ “This Rock” magazine may be helpful. It mostly addresses movements within the Catholic Church, but it goes into some depth about what a cult is or is not:

Are There Cults in the Catholic Church?
By Jay Dunlap
catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0301fea2.asp

.
 
The sect i came from (United pentecostal) Is most definitely A cult. In the modern pejorative sense of the word,

They are even nonchristian
For example
denial of the Blessed Trinity
Guilty of the ancient modalist heresy, and Sabellianism
Exclusivism (salvation only through them)
tinged with Witchcraft and necromancy
claim Apostolic origins, even though they only appeared in 1916
ostracize members who leave the group, even threaten with Eternal damnation.
A pseudo "standard"of personal Holiness. that has devolved into the absurd. even arguing among themselves over the length of sleeves! (an inch either way could send you to hell!)
Cult of personality, built around local pastors.

Thank God I am free of this nonChristian Cult.
Credo unam Sanctam Catholicam et Apostolicam Ecclesiam,
Credo unam!!!
 
I don’t think the word “cult” has any valid meaning for Christians. It’s a sociological term, referring to a religious group whose ideas are radically different from those predominant in the surrounding society. (It is also used in a rather different sense by anthropologists and scholars of religion–in that sense it just means “organized forms of worship” or “liturgy.”)

The authentically Christian word to use about the groups you mention is “heresy.” Though Scientology isn’t a heresy–it’s just a false religion.
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Marilena:
I can think of a valid one, where the members are kept from questioning their belief, and told that if they exercise independent
thinking, and investigate it, they are not trusting God, ext. What do you think?
I don’t buy this, because by this standard Catholicism (and most other forms of Christianity) would historically be a cult. The idea that questioning one’s religion is a good thing is, for the most part, a modern notion. I think that on the whole it’s a good notion. But it should not be the criterion on which we evaluate a religious group. How much a given religious group allows for questioning has a lot to do with the social circumstances of the group. In a modern, pluralistic society, most religious groups have made their peace with individual freedom. But groups that differ sharply from the surrounding society and want to preserve a distinct way of life are going to remain suspicious of these ideas. Again, this is a sociological rather than a theological matter.

Edwin
 
If we use the old meaning of cult then any group with common beliefs is a cult. A cult of Christians, a cult of saints, etc…

If we use the modern use of the word to mean brainwashed indiviuals who follow lies and are nor free to think for themselves then it would apply to Mormom, SDA’s, and JW’s. Especially the Jehovah Witnesses:yup: . These cults forbid and/or discourage reading of outside material and having friends outside the cult. This is how they maintain the brainwashing to avoid the truth. The word cult is sometimes used to be offensive, this is wrong.

I think the word cult used in the modern way by many is really wrong. It is a poor use of a good word to describe those missing out on the truth. I think we should use the word in the older way as it was meant. Without insult or bias, just a similar group.
 
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