What besides NFP is there for married Catholic couples?

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It sounds as if you are encouraging spouses to entertain and to foster lustful thoughts of each other. Do I read you correctly?
 
Have you tried a different method(s) or some of the new tech devices?
 
Look. I am not a supporter of this anti-contraception stance but what you are saying is just “weird”. No offence intended but if I could control my dreams I would be doing so many other things not even remotely sex related.
 
Yes. Unfortunately even the catholic bioethics centre couldn’t help me. I am not alone either. (I’m not in the US)
 
I’ve never known of the NBC to do any form of NFP training. I will have to add them to the list of resources!! Would you mind telling me which method they support?
 
I’m prolife and I don’t support contraception.
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Just an FYI, outside of Catholic circles, NFP is considered contraception/birth control if you’re TTA. A more Catholic way to understand it is that abstinence is the only morally legitimate means of preventing pregnancy. With NFP fertility charting, couples can know what days they’re most likely to get pregnant. In Catholicism, only abstinence during the fertile time is permitted to avoid. If you used barriers or withdrawl during that time, then you’d confess it as "I engaged in a form of contraception during my fertile time X times. This is different from confessing contraceptive methods like the IUD or the pill because you’re not doing something during the act to render it infertile but doing something in preparation to the act to render it infertile.

Since abstinence is the only moral means of pregnancy prevention, the only variety of things you have are charting methods. Some are taught by official programs approved by the Catholic Church. Others aren’t because the organizations encourage contraception during the fertile time in addition to abstinence.

These methods include
Sympto-thermal method
Billings Ovulation Method
Creighton Fertility Care System
Marquette Method
FEMM - approved in some diocese but is still pretty new. Some places list it as a form of the Ovulation method, but it lets you record BBT and OPKs
Two-Day Method - This is mostly promoted in developing nations and is not on the USCCB approved list because they advocate abstinence or other methods during the fertile time. The method effectiveness isn’t as good as the other methods.
Standard Days Method (Cycle Beads) - This again is promoted mostly in developing nations. Women have to have cycles within the specified length range.
LadyComp - Not promoted by the Catholic Church
Daysy- Very similar to Ladycomp
Natural Cycles - The first method that the medical associations are approving, but the Church doesn’t promote it

In addition, there are devices that help make recording basal body temp a little easier. These cannot be used alone. They must be incorporated into the STM. These include:
TempDrop- Promotes itself to NFP couples. Limited research
Ovusense - This one is only promoted by the organization for couples TTA, but I see no reason why NFP couples can’t use it
Ava Bracelett - It’s basically a fertility fitbit. It records more than your temp. The app does predict fertility but it takes a few cycles for it to become accurate and they haven’t done the research to market it as birth control. So it’s primarily marketed to those TTC and then in fine print it says it can compliment NFP. Basically, don’t rely on the bracelet alone.

Good apps
Fertility Friend (STM)
FEMM
Natural Cycles
Kindara
Fertility P(name removed by moderator)oint
Billings Mentor
NFP Charting
Sympto org
Symptopro (not sure if they have an app or are just web-based)
 
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twoangels said:
Just an FYI, outside of Catholic circles, NFP is considered contraception/birth control if you’re TTA.
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I am outside this Catholic circle and I do indeed see NFP pretty much contraceptive according to the understanding (yes the Catholic one) of it but what does TTA mean?
 
1ke said:
Couples are also free to do neither of these and engage in the marital embrace whenever they want to.
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No they are not. According to Humanae Vitae, couples are called to responsible parenthood. Some reasons to avoid pregnancy are just, in which case it’s morally neutral if you decide to have sex or not. Some situations are grave, meaning its a grave sin to engage in sex AT ALL at that time. That means, potentially a mortal sin. It doesn’t matter if you’re married. If you are choosing to forgo prudence for the sake of avoiding masturbation, your spiritual pride may be leading you to a graver sin. Indeed, sex can be lethal. Do not allow lust to kill wives. Do not tell yourself that you’re simply a victim of God’s will because you couldn’t control yourselves to avoid the sin of murder.

Thankfully, most of us aren’t in that situation, but it is blatantly false to presume that sex can be a free for all simply because you’re married and not using contraception. But I’ve had people brag to me about denying their children basic necessities such as food because they believed they were morally superior to using NFP and so holy because they weren’t contracepting. That reeks of spiritual pride and pride is worse than lust.
 
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Yes, it’s very weird. It was suggested precisely because of the anti-contraception stance. The main reason why people would do this is because they’re anti-contraception. This is possibly where the anti-contraception stance leads.
 
MichaelP3 said:
Care ro explain the murder part?
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If a husband and wife know that the woman has a health condition that would likely cause death, the husband and wife are morally obligated to be very prudent about their sexual activity. If they throw prudence out the window and the wife dies from a high risk pregnancy, it’s the same amount of moral culpability for her death as the hardships a family might suffer if a spouse gambles most of their money away.

And this isn’t at all hypothetical. I feel sick every time I see an obituary of some girl from my college who needlessly died after a history of complicated pregnancies, and a ton of young children. They often practically get canonized in these obituaries as if it’s some great pro life witness when it’s just the opposite.

This isn’t at all to say that hard situations don’t happen out of our control. There is always some relative risk involved with pregnancy, but we’re not living in an age of ignorance. This can be prevented in a moral way.
 
That makes sense, do you know if the Catechism addresses this by the way?
If a young woman died of pregnancy related complications and left orphans that is terrible BUT is there sin on the part of the couple for not abstaining or not using contraceptives as far as the Catholic view.
 
MarthaSo said:
That makes sense, do you know if the Catechism addresses this by the way?
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The Catechism doesn’t go that deeply into it. Lust isn’t supposed to be a point of obsession. A lot of my great grandmother’s books I inherited barely touched on it at all. It’s been touched on relatively in more recent history and become a point of obsession in the early 20th century and culminating in Humanae Vitae. Afterall, the Church persisted in the most conservative stance on contraception, and there’s been a lot of confusion about it since.

I read a book on the history of the Pro Life movement, rooting it all the way back to the debates on contraception and explaining all the arguments. The claim that the Pope was this profound prophet is silly. His arguments about what would happen were arguments that were circulating throughout the early 20th century. He didn’t state anything new. He reiterated older arguments but incompletely.

I’ve also read the birth control commissions report that was sent to him to advice him to change the teaching. What he did in Humanae Vitae was pull out their principles of responsible parenthood, reject the notion that abstinence was immoral (they compared the abstinence in NFP to other contraceptives), and reaffirmed that NFP was okay.

His position wasn’t actually as conservative as what the more conservative groups thought, so there’s been a lot of “Well, the Pope didn’t know the pill caused abortions, so it’s immoral to be on pill for the reasons he gives” and insistence that NFP must be a moral concession for grave reasons only. But that’s not actually what the document says at all.

Basically, he said things that neither the liberal or most conservative Catholics of his time liked. Both groups didn’t want all that abstinence. Contraceptives are a way to rid oneself of all the abstinence as is simply viewing NFP as morally questionable or plain out wrong as some traditionalists think.

You’ve got Casti Conubii which develops the doctor to the notion of chastity WITHIN marriage. And what the Catechism defines chastity as is self control, not mere abstinence.
[2339] Chastity includes an apprenticeship in self-mastery which is a training in human freedom. The alternative is clear: either man governs his passions and finds peace, or he lets himself be dominated by them and becomes unhappy.126 "Man’s dignity therefore requires him to act out of conscious and free choice, as moved and drawn in a personal way from within, and not by blind impulses in himself or by mere external constraint. Man gains such dignity when, ridding himself of all slavery to the passions, he presses forward to his goal by freely choosing what is good and, by his diligence and skill, effectively secures for himself the means suited to this end."127
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If you want to get more into the principles of responsible parenthood, I suggest reading Humanae Vitae : Grave Motives to Use a Good Translation.
 
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Sorry thelittlelady. Big day at work.

Besides the normal charting, mucous, cervix position and temps we tried something called NaPro. It used two apps sent straight to them in conjunction with the usual charting. Tried it on and off for years. Ended up being a hormonal imbalance so ovulation was so erratic it would occur anywhere from 8 - 22 days. Cycles were also unpredictable and could go up to 37 days.

The catholic bioethics where I live is a different organisation to the large org. in the US. I’m not familiar with the US format so not sure what services they provide. Ours provide information only and outsource individuals with the knowledge to teach.
 
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