What besides NFP is there for married Catholic couples?

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Ahhh

I hope you are well and maybe some of the super fancy new tech in the US will make it your way.
 
But also I believe Spain has high unemployment, especially for the young. Employment is necessary to support a family.
 
Fear not that which kills the body. Matthew 10, Luke 24. Jesus was very clear on this.

I think about it. While I can love and pray for my child, wipe noses and make sure there is healthy food in the fridge and read stories, there are limits.

Now, if I strive to remain in friendship with God and the set time for my death comes an hour from now, I will be able to then stand before the throne of God and pray for my child. How much more powerful would my prayers be when I am perfected in heaven!
 
One of the commonly referenced books on these matters is Jone’s “Moral Theology”. My copy is at home, I know he addresses this issue and I will look it up when I get home.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Fear not that which kills the body. Matthew 10, Luke 24. Jesus was very clear on this.
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This isn’t about fear but prudence and responsibility. If you’re having sex at all, there is still a chance of a high risk pregnancy you couldn’t have predicted. Indeed, if such a pregnancy happens, you should turn to prayer. It’s no different than any other of life’s unpredictable emergencies where we’re tempted to feel abandoned by God. We turn to prayer not because it is magic, but to strengthen our faith in God through the trial and to open ourselves more to His grace.

But if we’re talking about a woman with a history of high risk pregnancy and known risk factors that seriously would put her life at risk, than it’s no different than if your doctor said “You have diabetes,” and you decided to continue eating whatever you wanted and felt no moral obligation to monitor your blood sugar levels. Or we could take it a step further. Perhaps you can’t meet these moral obligations because you’re not meeting other moral obligations. That is to say, you’re not being prudent with your spending and sexuality and thus can’t afford to take care of yourself and your children. This is your fault, no different than if you had sex outside of marriage and were stuck being a single mom.

This isn’t to say that the single mom is abandoned by God because of her sins. The single mom can turn to prayer, reform her life, and look for the path God wants to lead her on from that point forward.

Don’t confuse prayer for magical incantations. God’s will needs no changing, because He already loves and cares for us and wills what is good for us. We needn’t be afraid. We come to pray in order to build up our faith in His goodness and His will. It is us that changes, not Him. And sometimes outcomes may change because we prayed, but if that is the case, it’s not because we pleased Him so much but because He knew we needed a reminder that He was already looking out for us. But a mature prayer life involves praying for His will, not ours. And it focuses more on asking God for the peace, grace, and guidance to live out our moral responsibilities and to be transformed to be more like the person He wants us to be.
How much more powerful would my prayers be when I am perfected in heaven!
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I would think your prayers would simply be wiser rather than more powerful, though that wisdom might give the illusion of power.
 
twoangels said:
I would think your prayers would simply be wiser rather than more powerful, though that wisdom might give the illusion of power.
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Why would one ever ask the Saints to pray for us if we do not believe that they are powerful intercessors? I guess I will start a new topic on this over the weekend.

Scripture says “The prayer of a righteous man availeth much”. Those in heaven are righteous.
 
TheLittleLady said:
It sounds as if you are encouraging spouses to entertain and to foster lustful thoughts of each other. Do I read you correctly?
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This is a good point. Arguably though spouses would be dreaming of intimacy with each other rather than lust.
Obviously a line has to be drawn between spouses wanting to have sex with each other & lust. Lust has to be using another as solely means for pleasure. Spouses wanting sex with each other can’t be called lust, such an idea would lead to thinking that sex doesn’t need to be enjoyed. Lust really is the lack of something in a sexual relationship.
 
Sex apart from the procreative is lust. What you are talking about could not be ordered toward procreation.
 
Dream sex is ordered towards procreation as much as sex during an infertile period is.
 
No it is not.

One will never procreate in dream sex (unless you get dream pregnant and have a dream baby).
 
Sex during an infertile period will never procreate, unless sex accidentally happens in a fertile period, however this isn’t the intention of the couple who have sex during an infertile period, their intention is un-procreative sex.
 
I don’t know why I stumbled onto this thread of “dream sex.”

First, when Catholics say procreation, it is not based on the outcomes, that is consequentialist reasoning. I will repeat again what I say many times: Catholics are not consequentialists.

“Procreation” means that the “inherent ordering of the act” is ordered towards procreation. If you do not know what the inherent ordering means, then you need to study the moral object of an act. That ordering is based on both choosing the concrete behavioral pattern, as well as the intellect recognizing the object that the act is ordered towards.

Second, you cannot control your dreams, but as soon as you wake up you should throw off any thought that comes into your brain instantly, lest you commit the mortal sin of lust!
 
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Having sex during an infertile period to avoid pregnancy isn’t ordered towards procreation.
 
Sexual intercourse which culminates in vaginal deposit of semen is ordered towards procreation. How the object is deduced, is by the behavioral pattern being performed, the means to the end (not the end itself or whether the end can be achieved), combined with a more “formal” dimension, the intellect. An act is always ordered towards its PROXIMATE end, period! It is not the possibility of a baby 9 months later that determines the ordering of the act. What you are saying contradicts moral Truth. It is the same as contradicting mathematical Truths.
 
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D.Erasmus.R said:
Married couples could have lucid dreams about having sex with each other.
For those who don’t know, lucid dreaming is partly a way to control your dreams.
Basically the married couple control their dreams so they’re dreaming about having sex with each other.
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This isn’t intimacy even if they manage to achieve lucid dreams at the same time. It’s imaginary, counterfeit.
 
D.Erasmus.R said:
Sex during an infertile period will never procreate
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Each act must be “ordered toward procreation”. Every one of them.

Each act during an infertile period, after menopause, during pregnancy, still must be ordered toward procreation.
 
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