What bishops are saying about Adoration, real bread and sitting during Communion

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Eucharistic adoration is key, but also has drawbacks, bishops say

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0505663.htm

By Carol Glatz

VATICAN CITY (CNS) – Some eucharistic practices, including eucharistic adoration, have brought people closer to the real presence of Christ, but there may be some drawbacks to watch for, said some members of the Synod of Bishops.

Italian Cardinal Camillo Ruini, papal vicar of Rome, said the discovery of eucharistic adoration has been “a key development,” especially for youths, in establishing a relationship with that invisible reality of the divine.

He said the church has had to learn how to explain Christ’s presence to people who live in a culture that does not understand reality unless it is visible.

“In the extended silence of adoration, (people) find a better opportunity of personal relationship with Christ and God the Father,” he said in his Oct. 6 speech to the Synod of Bishops on the Eucharist. Portions of some speeches from the Oct. 2-23 synod were released by the Vatican.

French Bishop Jacques Perrier of Tarbes and Lourdes said while eucharistic adoration has become very popular in France there were some dangers. He said adoration risked becoming too individualistic a practice in which the person could lose a sense of the church as a spiritual community.

He also warned that with eucharistic adoration “there is an absence of words.” The church must make sure young people understand their faith and can express that faith, he said.

He also said eucharistic adoration could lead to a neglect “of the other different ways the risen Christ has real presence.”

Bishop Perrier said adoration of the Eucharist does help prayer “escape the trap of introspection,” because this form of adoration is seeing Christ “face to face.” He said it probably became popular with so many young people because today’s generation “cannot live without images.”

“By looking at the host, certainly, we do not see Christ in his divinity or in his humanity, but we do fix our eyes on the most direct sign of his real presence,” he said in his Oct. 6 talk.

Another synod member said the sign of the Eucharist needs to be made more “clearly visible” as the bread that becomes the body of Christ.

Archbishop Anthony Sablan Apuron of Agana, Guam, said perhaps “the church needs to restore the ‘breadness’ of the bread,” by using the “unleavened bread used in the ancient and primitive church rather than the wafer-thin, mass-produced bread we use as hosts for our people today.”

He said using signs that “fully and powerfully represent the reality they signify and not just approximate them” might lead the faithful to “better appreciate the Eucharist.”

He said in his experience small faith communities more successfully grasped the faith.

***In order to foster that sense of a close community, he suggested the priest take the Eucharist to seated people.

"What sort of a banquet does one go to which requires you to stand rather than sit?" Archbishop Apuron asked.

He said that, in the Gospels, St. Mark said “Christ served the apostles – he did not ask or invite them to come up” in order to receive his body and blood.

The archbishop praised the Neocatechumenal Way in Guam and said he has witnessed “a remarkable growth in faith in the lives of thousands of people” who are part of this parish-based process of faith formation.

END

I have a little problem with the above underlined piece…

I would agree that they sat at the last supper, but they all stood on Calvary.

So what exactly is the Holy Mass?? A banquet? Or a perpetuated sacrifice?

Any comments on the above?
 
Read the section on transubstantiation.
Second paragraph:

“The leaders of the Way believe that once the celebration is finished, Christ is no longer present. Consequently, they are opposed to reservation of the Blessed Sacrament, genuflecting, eucharistic adoration, daily communicating and tabernacles etc. Carmen Hernandez famously stated to a priest that if Christ wanted to be amoung us in this manner, he would have come as a stone not bread that goes mouldy.”

www.cathud.com/LINKS/pages_MR/neocatechumenate.htm

Let us not forget that the neocatechumenals sit for communion.

Who are these Bishops loyal to.
 
Good thing God is God, and The Pope is the Pope. B16 will sort out the mess, correct the goofyness of some Bishops, and probably upset a lot of liberal Catholics.

I am anxious for the “changes” (correction of abuses) - our own reformation from within.
 
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Walking_Home:
. . .Carmen Hernandez famously stated to a priest that if Christ wanted to be amoung us in this manner, he would have come as a stone not bread that goes mouldy." . . …
Code:
So the father in **Matthew 7:9**
Which one of you would hand his son a stone when he asks for a loaf of bread
, is cruel?%between%
 
Remember the basic fact of committees

When all is said and done -
**Much more has been said than done! 😃 **
 
Once a host is consecrated it remains consecrated until it is consumed by someone. Ther eare many instances of consecrated hosts existing for centuries with miraculous proofs that They are indeed the Body and Blood of the Lord.

And we are using “real” bread if we use the formula (“recipe”) mandated by the magaisterium. Do you have any idea of how many different varieties of bread exist just in this country alone?

And if the disciples and others who heard Him preach could sit in the presence of Our Lord, and were even encouraged to do so by Him, who are we to be so presumpuous as to say it is wrong to do so now? Many stood and He didn’t scold them for being wrong to do so.
 
Mz. BonnieBj,

I aggree with the first part of your post.

I do not aggree that with the idea of sitting for communion, which is what these Bishops are recommending.
 
I noticed that first of all they were talking in context of small groups. I have actually attended very small masses in which the Eucharist was actually brought TO us, we were on our knees and it was VERY MEANINGFUL. to me.

Then again, if we bring back the Communion Rail I guess then the priest gets to bring us the Eucharist and eliminate the need for EHMC;s…hmmm…I guess they can use this argument, then.

It would be ridiculous for the priest to bring the host to those who are seated unless they have disabilities which prevent their coming forward.

Besides…we do need to go forward to accept Christ. He does freely give himself, but at the same time, we have free will. By going forward we are professing our belief and it’s not as if we are going to the alter and just wolfing the body and blood of the Lamb of God…we are going forwar in order for him to give himself to us in our profession of faith. (Not sure if I conveyed what I meant here).

Furthemore, the idea that Adoration is a hit among the youth because the youth come from a visual culture is an insult to their intelligence. Sure, visualization helps…but how does displaying a piece of bread fit this? If we believe, we believe…it’s not as if a projector is present to put a photograph of the Shroud of Turin superimposed upon the host in the monstrance! GIVE ME A BREAK!

Like others have said…I have confidance that Benedict XVI will be able to correct this, and don’t forget about JPII , the saint to be!

We have nothing to fear from misled bishops…they need our prayers.
 
Between B16 and the intercessions of JPII, I’m sure they Synod will be sorted out alright in the end 🙂
 
Archbishop Anthony Sablan Apuron of Agana, Guam, said perhaps “the church needs to restore the ‘breadness’ of the bread,” by using the “unleavened bread used in the ancient and primitive church rather than the wafer-thin, mass-produced bread we use as hosts for our people today.”
I’d be content if the Church would restore the “bishopness” of bishops.
 
Abp. Apuron is our bishop here in Guam. He has many wonderful gifts, but I must disagree with some of his notions.

I acknowledge that the Liturgy is a banquet, but I believe that it would be a pastoral mistake to go any further in that direction while belief in the Real Presence and the sacrificial aspects of the Liturgy are waning.

We would do well to heed Pope John Paul II’s warning: “Unfortunately, alongside these lights, there are also shadows… At times one encounters an extremely reductive understanding of the Eucharistic mystery. Stripped of its sacrificial meaning, it is celebrated as if it were simply a fraternal banquet.” Pope John Paul II, Ecclesia de Eucharistia 10

Chuck White
Catholic Evidence Guild of Guam
 
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Fergal:
French Bishop Jacques Perrier of Tarbes and Lourdes said while eucharistic adoration has become very popular in France there were some dangers. He said adoration risked becoming too individualistic a practice in which the person could lose a sense of the church as a spiritual community.

He also warned that with eucharistic adoration “there is an absence of words.” The church must make sure young people understand their faith and can express that faith, he said.

He also said eucharistic adoration could lead to a neglect “of the other different ways the risen Christ has real presence.”

Bishop Perrier said adoration of the Eucharist does help prayer “escape the trap of introspection,” because this form of adoration is seeing Christ “face to face.” He said it probably became popular with so many young people because today’s generation “cannot live without images.”

“By looking at the host, certainly, we do not see Christ in his divinity or in his humanity, but we do fix our eyes on the most direct sign of his real presence,” he said in his Oct. 6 talk.
The main problem I have with this opinion from Bishop Perrier is his view on the popularity that Adoration has taken on with young people. It almost discredits them from having full understanding of the Eucharist, and sort-of deems them incapable of doing so. Does he really see the youth and young people as being that shallow or incapable? Or is this just happening in France? :confused:
 
** In Christ’s time I didn’t think people sat at banquets but rather reclined.**
So, should we all recline at the consecration and at adoration ?
 
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sententia:
Between B16 and the intercessions of JPII, I’m sure they Synod will be sorted out alright in the end 🙂
Amen. Pick up a copy of God is Near Us by then-Cardinal Ratzinger and see in what direction the chips will fall.😃
 
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Walking_Home:
Read the section on transubstantiation.
Second paragraph:

“The leaders of the Way believe that once the celebration is finished, Christ is no longer present. Consequently, they are opposed to reservation of the Blessed Sacrament, genuflecting, eucharistic adoration, daily communicating and tabernacles etc. Carmen Hernandez famously stated to a priest that if Christ wanted to be amoung us in this manner, he would have come as a stone not bread that goes mouldy.”

www.cathud.com/LINKS/pages_MR/neocatechumenate.htm
This is a wicked calumny and you no good to the church, yourself or anyone else when you repeat such lies.

Rather than quoting from an unsubstantiated, inaccurate and hateful website, I can speak from personal experience and tell you that I and many others I know were introduced to the practise of Eucharistic Adoration and indeed attendance at daily mass through the NeoCatechumenate. The Parish where I follow the NeoCatechumenal Way is one of the few in the area where the Tabernacle is clearly visible in a place of honour and veiled in the traditional way. People genuflect just as they do in any other parish. There is weekly adoration and benediction…

…I could go on, but I hope this is sufficient to show how absurd allegations such as *“The leaders of the Way believe that once the celebration is finished, Christ is no longer present” *really are to anyone who actually knows anything about the NeoCatechumenate.
 
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Fergal:

I have a little problem with the above underlined piece…

I would agree that they sat at the last supper, but they all stood on Calvary.

So what exactly is the Holy Mass?? A banquet? Or a perpetuated sacrifice?

Any comments on the above?
As I’m sure you know, it is both.

What exactly is the Holy Mass? It is a Sacrificial Banquet.
 
**Please do not let the thread digress into a NC Way discussion. There are already existing threads on that subject and if someone wishes to discuss that specific group they are free to do so in the appropriate forum.

As always,your help is appreciated.
**
 
there may be some drawbacks to watch for
I don’t see any drawbacks to spending time in the presence of Our Lord.
French Bishop Jacques Perrier of Tarbes and Lourdes said while eucharistic adoration has become very popular in France there were some dangers.
Catholicism making a comeback in France, a problem?
He also warned that with eucharistic adoration “there is an absence of words.” The church must make sure young people understand their faith and can express that faith, he said.
That’s what Catechesis is for- that is important, but doesn’t replace adoration.
He also said eucharistic adoration could lead to a neglect “of the other different ways the risen Christ has real presence.”
and what ways would those be? This way has been neglected for many years- and it is time it made a comeback.
He said it probably became popular with so many young people because today’s generation “cannot live without images.”
I don’t suppose that it is God himself and that people recognize that has anything to do with it.
Archbishop Anthony Sablan Apuron of Agana, Guam, said perhaps “the church needs to restore the ‘breadness’ of the bread,” by using the “unleavened bread used in the ancient and primitive church rather than the wafer-thin, mass-produced bread we use as hosts for our people today.”
How do they know what was used in the primitive Church? I suppose this generation is much more enlightened then the generations of the past several hundred years- they must know.
He said using signs that “fully and powerfully represent the reality they signify and not just approximate them” might lead the faithful to “better appreciate the Eucharist.”
No, faith doesn’t need that.

**
In order to foster that sense of a close community, he suggested the priest take the Eucharist to seated people.
"What sort of a banquet does one go to which requires you to stand rather than sit?" Archbishop Apuron asked.


ummm…no. This is more than a casual banquet? What kind of dignitary (at least in the western world) is received sitting down? Why would we give God any less?*
He said that, in the Gospels, St. Mark said “Christ served the apostles – he did not ask or invite them to come up” in order to receive his body and blood.
Of course not, but that was Jesus himself in his human appearence.

The archbishop praised the Neocatechumenal Way in Guam and said he has witnessed “a remarkable growth in faith in the lives of thousands of people” who are part of this parish-based process of faith formation.

I have witnessed “a remarkable growth” of Islam in France (it’s the fastest growing religion there) and "a remarkable growth of fundamentalism in the US in the 70’s, and “a remarkable growth” of athiesm in Russia after the revolution. Growth doesn’t equal truth.
 
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BonnieBj:
Once a host is consecrated it remains consecrated until it is consumed by someone. Ther eare many instances of consecrated hosts existing for centuries with miraculous proofs that They are indeed the Body and Blood of the Lord.

And we are using “real” bread if we use the formula (“recipe”) mandated by the magaisterium. Do you have any idea of how many different varieties of bread exist just in this country alone?

And if the disciples and others who heard Him preach could sit in the presence of Our Lord, and were even encouraged to do so by Him, who are we to be so presumpuous as to say it is wrong to do so now? Many stood and He didn’t scold them for being wrong to do so.
And so when you go to receive Holy Communion, the priest says "white, wheat, or rye?. Just like a restaruant! I believe some bishops need a little reality check.
 
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