What can God do?

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Soulewolf said:
untrue. According to the quantum eraser experiment, observation of a particle can change the outcome of an experiment even after the experiment has been performed. Which means that time has no effect on the collapsing of its wave function. which means that us observing the universe right now could mean that through our observation, the wave function of the “seed” was/is collapsed/collapsing and the universe was created.
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I don’t see your point. How does that challenge the idea that physical reality is contingent? What do you mean by time having an effect?
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
I don’t see your point. How does that challenge the idea that physical reality is contingent? What do you mean by time having an effect?
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it challenges the idea that only omnipotence could have created the universe. and not an effect… it has NO effect.
 
Soulewolf said:
According to the quantum eraser experiment, observation of a particle can change the outcome of an experiment even after the experiment has been performed. Which means that time has no effect on the collapsing of its wave function. which means that us observing the universe right now could mean that through our observation, the wave function of the “seed” was/is collapsed/collapsing and the universe was created. This also falls in line with Einstinian Relativity.
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what is the probability of the universe having been created after having experianced the universe?
 
Which would be a contradiction to causality. So if the Quantum Theory is indeed true and it works mathmatically, which it does, Then in reality this isn’t true. Yet experiments continue to prove through changing the equations that “maybe” in real world physics its possible? Thats still a yet.

And while all this is well and fine. While the God of Miracles explains in detail our very existance in the Universe. Here the God of Order “still” remains silent? So what are we really saying here?
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
You cannot observe that which does not exist.
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if time is not a factor in collapsing the wave function, and we are obviously observing the universe right now, then we are collapsing the wave function of the universe when it came into existence.
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
Change evidently exists.
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again, change implies time, which i do not believe exists. so in an objective sense, no, change does not exist. think of the universe as a 0th dimensional point in which all things that will happen and have happened, do so simultaneously
 
Soulewolf said:
if time is not a factor in collapsing the wave function, and we are obviously observing the universe right now, then we are collapsing the wave function of the universe when it came into existence.
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In order for us to be here now, the universe would have to first exist irrespective of our existence and evolve through a process of change. Therefore it is not possible that we collapsed the wave function. You cannot collapse that which does not exist, is not real. We as a cause are only real as a result of that collapse. Thus you are trying to justify a obvious contradiction by inconsistently eradicating time; ignoring the fact that we require potentiality and change in order for there to be a collapse in the first place. Also, you assume that we exist necessarily, but your argument requires for there to be a possibility that we would never of existed because there is no determinism and thus nothing determining our reality.
 
Soulewolf said:
again, change implies time, which i do not believe exists. so in an objective sense, no, change does not exist. think of the universe as a 0th dimensional point in which all things that will happen and have happened, do so simultaneously
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Simply saying it does not exist does not disprove the obvious fact that it does. In order to speak meaningfully of something happening there has to be change/potentiality.
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
In order for us to be here now, the universe would have to first exist irrespective of our existence and evolve through a process of change. Therefore it is not possible that we collapsed the wave function. You cannot collapse that which does not exist, is not real. We as a cause are only real as a result of that collapse. Thus you are trying to justify a obvious contradiction by inconsistently eradicating time; ignoring the fact that we require potentiality and change in order for there to be a collapse in the first place. Also, you assume that we exist necessarily, but your argument requires for there to be a possibility that we would never of existed because there is no determinism and thsu nothing determining our reality.
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again you are thinking of before and after. in a universe where time does not exist (and before the universe when time definately did not exist) everything that will happen happens at once. which means that the universe existing and not existing happens simultaniously. which you could describe as “parallel universes” or " parallel possibility".
 
Soulewolf said:
again you are thinking of before and after. in a universe where time does not exist (and before the universe when time definately did not exist) everything that will happen happens at once. which means that the universe existing and not existing happens simultaniously. which you could describe as “parallel universes” or " parallel possibility".
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Why will something happen? See again, you are sneaking determinism into your argument.
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
Why will something happen? See again, you are sneaking determinism into your argument.
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no, we are hitting the limits of the English language simply because “happen” implies time which in this scenario doesn’t exist, however there is no other word to use.
 
Soulewolf said:
again you are thinking of before and after. in a universe where time does not exist (and before the universe when time definately did not exist) everything that will happen happens at once. which means that the universe existing and not existing happens simultaniously. which you could describe as “parallel universes” or " parallel possibility".
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Time does exist. A thing cannot both exist and not exist at the same time in the same context. If you were to look outside of time, then yes, you would not experience change, but not because there is no change, but rather because you are viewing the universe from a particular perspective where the entirety of all change is immediately present and thus one. This is the principle of relativity. There being no change is not universal but relative to ones perspective in relation to time.

Secondly, the potential existence of the universe being simultaneous to the actual existence of the universe does not explain where the potentiality of the universe came from. You want to say that it came from the actual universe, but this is an obvious contradiction, which cannot change by saying that there is no change. So long as the universe potentially exists, one requires an existential cause that is not the universe.
 
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