What can I do...and what can I not do?

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Angeluzza

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Question (please forgive me if this has been addressed before):
  • What can I do in regards to involvement with the SSPX, while remaining faithful to Rome, and what can I not do?
There is a beautiful SSPX church that I found, and I find it very inspirational to go there and pray.

My concerns, however, are that I do not want to do anything that will lead to becoming unfaithful to Rome.

Please note that I am not trying to start a debate regarding the entire excommunication issue. I simply want to know what the official position is of the Church now - not pre-Vatican II (again, not trying to start another debate.)***

From what I understand, if I attend Mass, Confession, or any other sacrament that the SSPX offers, it can either be a cause of excommunication or simply be invalid (in the case of confession).

However, is it ok for me sit and pray in their Churches? Is Christ truly present in the Eucharist there, and can I kneel before the Eucharist?

Can I attend exposition there, sing evening prayer with them, and participate in things like benediction, holy hours, the rosary, etc.?

I am not going to attend Mass or confession there, but beyond that I would like to know if it is ok for me to be doing what I am doing right now (which so far is just praying in their church and praying the rosary with them) and if it is ok for me to do some of the other things that I would like to do?

Thank you so much, and just a reminder that I am not trying to start a debate. I know the SSPX has their ideas, but all I am really looking for is current Church opinion so that I can stay loyal to Rome.

Thank you and God bless! 🙂
 
I will give you my layperson’s opinion.

SSPX chapels do have a valid Eucharist. There is nothing wrong with praying legitimate prayer there. Always be on guard against schismatic preaching. You should attend Mass and the sacraments at a Church in union with the Catholic Church. You should not support the SSPX financially. If you engage in conversation with their clergy or parishioners, urge them to return to communion with the Church.
 
I think you are playing with fire.

You described activities that will put you in the SSPX chapel for several hours a week. How will you be able to do that, and at the same time make it clear to friendly people at the SSPX chapel that you are NOT interested in attending Mass and getting involved with other SSPX activities? That’s going to be difficult for you.

I think…and forgive me if I underestimate your fortitude–I think that you will eventually give in “just to be polite”, or out of curiousity, or out of desire to be involved with the Latin Mass, and you’ll attend one of the Masses, and then you’ll just keep going back. It will become more and more normal for you to attend SSPX Masses.

Eventually, you won’t be attending your home parish anymore, or if you do go to your home parish, you will experience feelings of let-down and discomfort because it’s not as “beautiful” (or whatever) as the SSPX Masses.

And at some point, you will be entirely SSPX. You will abandon the regular Catholic parishes in favor of the more “beautiful” SSPX. And it won’t be easy for you to get away from it. You will just have to hope that one day, the conflict between the SSPX and the Church will be resolved. But it didn’t happen under Pope Benedict XVI, and we can’t say whether it will happen under Pope Francis. You may well be in an irregular Catholic situation for the rest of your life.

Are you OK with that? Are you willing to take a chance that this will happen to you? A lot of people end up in trouble because they “sample” something that is not good for them, and it leads to an all-out “addiction” to that thing.

Here’s my suggestion–if you have that much fortitude, then use it to try to get some of the devotional practices you love in your own parish. Then everyone can benefit from them, and you will have done a very good thing for all the other Christians in your parish. You will be reaching out and “evangelizing” others rather than just pleasing yourself, and that’s a good thing!

Benediction, public praying of the Rosary, Holy Hours, etc. are all practices that can and should be part of most parishes. Use your strong fortitude to speak with your priest, and volunteer yourself to get the details worked out. If you have time to spend that many hours in the SSPX chapel, then you obviously have some time to spend working on getting Rosary, Benediction, etc. established in your own parish.

Perhaps you could start with the public praying of the Rosary–that’s a practice that doesn’t require a priest and it’s easy. You could easily lead that, and others would probably love to join you. Even if it’s just a small group, it will be beautiful and meaningful, and pleasing to the Blessed Mother and her Son.

Then go for the Benediction–perhaps they can offer Benediction once or twice a month to start with, and eventually once a week. Holy Hours are not that difficult either, if they are offered once a month or so (eventually, the hope is a 24/7 prayer chapel–we have this and it’s wonderful).

Godspeed to you. Make a wise decision. Sometimes we have to give up something that would be very pleasing to us in order to bring about greater good.
 
Here’s one more thought.

Imagine yourself speaking with your bishop and asking him the questions in your OP.

Could you do that? Would you feel uncomfortable talking to your bishop, the apostle that Christ has established to lead your diocese, your SHEPHERD, about your involvement in the SSPX? What do you think he would say to you? Would he be happy? Would you please him?

Remember, your bishop is Christ’s apostle. So how would you feel talking with Jesus about your involvement with the SSPX?
 
I was hoping that someone else would reply with my thoughts, but it hasn’t happened, so here goes…

You are obviously aware that an SSPX Mass does not fulfil Sunday Obligation and that confession is invalid, so I won’t repeat those caveats here.

Apart from that, as far as I know you may participate fully in any SSPX devotion or ceremony, including Sunday Mass. I do not know the rule on receiving communion, however I do not recall reading anything which said you cannot receive communion in an SSPX chapel. Your parish priest and bishop would be the best guide - and it is, I believe, sufficiently important to ask them.

So, in my opinion it is up to you to choose your level involvement, subject to restraints which you are already aware of.
 
Angeluzza said:
Question (please forgive me if this has been addressed before):

What can I do in regards to involvement with the SSPX, while remaining faithful to Rome, and what can I not do?
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Hi Angeluzza,

Attending an SSPX mass is perfectly legitimate and - contrary to popular belief - **does ** fulfill a Catholics sunday obligation to attend mass. This has been stated unequivocally by the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei. See here for more info
Is it possible to fulfill the Sunday obligation by participating in a Mass celebrated by a priest from Society of St. Pius X, if the participant is not “against the validity or legitimacy of the Holy Mass or the Sacraments celebrated in the forma ordinaria or against the Roman Pontiff as Supreme Pastor of the Universal Church” and this is the only opportunity in the local area to participate in the Mass in forma extraordinaria
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rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/11/pced-letter-on-attendance-in-sspx-mass.html

Basically the rule seems to be that SSPX mass is valid, as long as the relevant priest isnt using his masses as a platform to speak against our Holy Father or the modern form of the mass. (Also, you are not supposed to go to them if there is a Diocesean TLM or Canonical Traditional Group available - but most people do not have access to these things, as many local Bishops choose to suppress traditional worship in any form).

However, although the Eucharist is valid at SSPX masses, the confessions they offer are currently (as I understand it) not valid. This is because, although SSPX priests are valid Catholic priests, their status is currently irregular and so they lack faculties to administer all of the sacraments.

There are three Parishes near me - a Diocesean parish, a Jesuit parish and an SSPX parish. I attend the Jesuit Parish, but have recently started to occasionally attend the SSPX in addition, as I am interested and attracted to traditional liturgy.

I have met people at the SSPX who go there as their usual parish, but who go to a diocesean parish for confession. That is a perfectly valid set-up / way of doing things.
Angeluzza said:
My concerns, however, are that I do not want to do anything that will lead to becoming unfaithful to Rome.
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Do not worry that you would be led astray by the SSPX, they only want whats best for the Church and Catholicism. Although I have only attended their Church a few times, I have been very impressed by the liturgy and homilies I have experienced there. I like it how they are very up-front and direct with their opinions, (and obviously confident in them), and do not pussyfoot around matters in the same way I am used to in the ‘mainstream’ (if you will) Church.
Angeluzza said:
However, is it ok for me sit and pray in their Churches? Is Christ truly present in the Eucharist there, and can I kneel before the Eucharist?
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Yes - as per above (see link). And yes, SSPX communion is distributed to people who are kneeling at the altar rail, and only on the tongue. For me, this stark difference has been another very satisfying aspect of my attendance.

Note that receiving communion on the tongue, whilst kneeling, is the proper way of doing it. The western Catholic Churches simply “cant be bothered” - people prefer to stand and receive in the hand instead - they do whatever is easy for them. This is prioritising personal comfort over appropriate reverence for the Eucharist - it is lukewarm Catholicism, as are so many expressions of the Church in modern, developed nations.
Angeluzza said:
Can I attend exposition there, sing evening prayer with them, and participate in things like benediction, holy hours, the rosary, etc.?
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All yes.

At the SSPX place I visit, the people do the rosary before the mass begins. At the end of mass, the congregation say the prayer to St Michael and the Salve Regina (vernacular). Again, this used to be common practice for all Catholics, but has fallen away with the rise of the lukewarm, Catholicism-lite which prevails now.

Before becoming interested in tradition, I was pretty ignorant of much of our faith - at times I feel quite aggreived at what was “kept back” from me, and what I missed out on.

I would not unduly worry yourself on this matter - do whatever feels right to you. Many people seem very anti-tradition, as though they are somehow threatened by it, I think this is a shame.

Increasingly, I am attracted to tradition as the means to raise my (God willing) children in. I was raised Catholic, but the novus ordo Church was a total failure at catechising me (catechesis was non-existent) and I stopped going to Church as soon as I could (16).

Its my strong opinion that raising kids in traditional Catholicism would lead them to being much - much - better informed about the faith and more devoted to God. Of course, its not failsafe - I am sure many trads still lose faith or become disinterested - but I would bet it gives people a better chance of holding onto their faith than does the novus ordo (look at the collapse in mass attendance since Vatican II as proof).

I am not advocating a one-size fits all - if people are happy with the Novus Ordo (and I am sure many are) then they should be able to continue with that.

If Pope Francis changed the Novus Ordo to include kneeling at altar rails for communion on the tongue, (and communion from Priests only), then that would go a long way to improving my satisfaction with the Novus ordo.
 
Edmundus1581 said:
You are obviously aware that an SSPX Mass does not fulfil Sunday Obligation and that confession is invalid, so I won’t repeat those caveats here.
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Hi Edmundus

SSPX mass does fulfil the Sunday Obligation - see my previous post.

You are correct that their confessions are currently invalid.

Best regards
GWright
 
Sunday Mass- YES as long as you don’t assist in a spirit of rebellion against whatever.
Confession- NO for some reason I don’t know.

And…you’re not really ‘playing with fire’ as one person suggests. It’s your spiritual need being fed. Just don’t go with a spirit of rebellion.
 
If you’re really worried, I would suggest finding a church that does the Latin Mass who is completely in communion with Rome.

As far as I know all of the churches on this website are in communion with Rome. This website lists the churches and Mass times.

latinmass.com/latinmassdirectory.html
 
Thank you to everyone for the replies. 🙂

I still have a few questions remaining if anyone can help.

I have read of excommunications being given to anyone attending the SSPX - for example, the one issued by Bishop Fabian Bruskowitz (sp?).

I just want to make sure that I am not doing anything to put myself out of communion with Rome if I attend spiritual services there that are not related to the Mass (such as benediction, adoration, etc.)
  • Do the excommunications only apply to attending Mass and the sacraments, and not other spiritual activities?
Cat said:
Here’s one more thought.

Imagine yourself speaking with your bishop and asking him the questions in your OP.

Could you do that? Would you feel uncomfortable talking to your bishop, the apostle that Christ has established to lead your diocese, your SHEPHERD, about your involvement in the SSPX? What do you think he would say to you? Would he be happy? Would you please him?

Remember, your bishop is Christ’s apostle. So how would you feel talking with Jesus about your involvement with the SSPX?
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Yes, I would feel fine speaking with the Bishop as long as I am sure that what I am doing does not exclude me from communion with Rome.

If the Bishop did not like what I was saying it may feel awkward as I would know he did not like it, but that is no different than telling anyone something they do not like. I may sense his displeasure, but as long as I am not going against the Church then that is just his personal feeling and not me doing anything wrong.

That is why I am trying to clarify here - I actually did think of contacting the Bishop to ask, but figured he would be too busy to take me seriously, and may give me an inaccurate answer to dissuade me if he is liberal.

I cannot imagine it would displease Jesus if I am not doing anything against communion with Rome.

Actually, I find the SSPX to be a bit more pleasant in general to be around as they are less guarded than the other traditional groups (nothing against the others - but they know they have to guard their status, and that can affect how helpful they are, etc., which in my situation has been very difficult to deal with. It seems with them that you have to know the Pope to get help - the SSPX on the other hand is not afraid to reach out and help someone in my experience. I believe that is due to the fact that they do not have to live under the fear of their more liberal Bishops, etc. It has been a relief not to be pushed away and made to feel like I am a freak. Again, that is just my general personal experience though and I am grateful that the other traditional groups are there and I do support those as I can.)

Thank you again to all! 🙂 If anyone can advise on my lingering questions above I would be very grateful.
 
Armor_of_Light said:
Confession- NO for some reason I don’t know.
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The reason is that confession can only be heard by a priest with “jurisdiction” from a bishop in communion with Rome. And the reason for this is that confession, in addition to absolving us of our sins, also reconciles us with the Church - and this reconciliation can only be made by a priest with the authority from the Church.
 
GWright said:
Hi Edmundus

SSPX mass does fulfil the Sunday Obligation - see my previous post.
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This is not true. The Sunday Obligation is met when one attends Mass at a diocesan Church that is in union with the local bishop. If you find yourself in a situation where there is not a diocesan Church within a reasonable distance, then your obligation is dispensed.

As stated in the letter in your link, the SSPX "does not have canonical status in the Church and its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church." No where does it say that an SSPX Mass fulfills the Sunday Obligation.
 
Angeluzza, do yourself a favor.

Take your concerns and questions regarding the SSPX to your local chancery and discuss it with someone there, or with a priest in one of your local parishes. Whatever they advise, do.
 
Timothysis said:
Friend, I’m not making this up; it is Canon Law.
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can. 1248 1. The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day.

🤷

Wouldn’t we have to reach the odd conclusion that the SSPX offer something other than a Catholic Rite if that was the case?
 
I will admit that the two conflicting PCED letters are nothing short of confusing. But then that body doesn’t have the right to change Canon Law, nor do they issue binding interpretations of it.
 
Angeluzza said:
I have read of excommunications being given to anyone attending the SSPX - for example, the one issued by Bishop Fabian Bruskowitz (sp?).
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I believe the Bishop Bruskowitz has provided the EF Mass fully in union the Catholic Church in his Diocese for several decades now. In fact, I think he was one of the first to bring back the Tridentine Latin Mass. Perhaps the persons in question insisted on continuing to go to the SSPX Mass, when the EF Mass in full communion with the Church was made locally available.

I can see that as more likely, as Bishop Bruskowitz has been such a long-time supporter of the EF Mass.
 
10thCrusader said:
I believe the Bishop Bruskowitz has provided the EF Mass fully in union the Catholic Church in his Diocese for several decades now. In fact, I think he was one of the first to bring back the Tridentine Latin Mass. Perhaps the persons in question insisted on continuing to go to the SSPX Mass, when the EF Mass in full communion with the Church was made locally available.

I can see that as more likely, as Bishop Bruskowitz has been such a long-time supporter of the EF Mass.
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I’m not sure why Bp Bruskewitz’s excommunication was never appealed. At least I don’t think it was. It would almost certainly have been overturned. Then Cardinal Ratzinger overturned a similar ruling against the “Honolulu Six.”
 
mgsk said:
I’m not sure why Bp Bruskewitz’s excommunication was never appealed. At least I don’t think it was. It would almost certainly have been overturned. Then Cardinal Ratzinger overturned a similar ruling against the “Honolulu Six.”
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Hello,

It was appealed but, as far as I know, only by a leftist target of the decree. catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0606995.htm

I would also add that Bishop Bruskewitz’s decree penalized “membership” in various organizations, including the SSPX. That is a significant detail and even frequent participation in an SSPX Mass would not result in “membership.” catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=2863 Even so, I do think that one could now argue that since the SSPX bishops themselves are, as of 2009, *not *excommunicated, no one should be–or can be–excommunicated simply for being a “member” of the SSPX. Not anymore.

Dan
 
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