What can I do?

[cynic]

I’ll make this as short as possible.

My mother is a cancer patient and has recently been given about a year to live. I’m neither a Catholic or Christian of any other denomination (profile isn’t true), have no personal desire to be, but really need to be believe in something more for her.

What is it that I can do considering:

*I have no faith, desire to love God (if he exists), and would not be ‘bothered’ with religion if it weren’t for the circumstances.

*She is going believe that any suggestion like this is just my way of dealing with her passing, might humour me, but is unlikely to genuinely believe it.

She has spent her life caring about others. I can hope that if there is a God, he would show mercy, but I know from the perspective of traditional Catholicism, that isn’t enough.

The idea of an atheist oblivion, no life after death scenario is tolerable for myself, but not her. So aside from converting and in-sincerley trying to believe in something I would otherwise have no interest in, what options are there?

Apologies if this topic is inappropriate. I realise this might not be the place.

 

[Trishie]

I am sorry to hear you are faced with your mother’s illness and loss.
You can’t pretend to your mother, you have to be authentic.
Your love and kindness to her is the gift you can give.
You say your mother has spent her life caring for others but it’s not enough…
You are backed up by Jesus that it is…
Matthew 25, verses 31-46 In case you don’t know the scripture I’ll spell it out with some of the relevant scripture.:

“The Last Judgement”
"When the Son of Man comes in all His glory, escorted by all the angels, then he will take his seat on his throne of glory. All the nations will be assembled before him and he will separate men from one another as the shepherd separates sheep from goats.

He will place the sheep on his right hand and the goats on his left. then the King shall say to those on his right hand," Come you whom my Father has blessed, take for your heritage the kingdom prepared for you since the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food; I was a stranger and you made me welcome. I was thristy and you gave me drink; I was a stranger and you made me welcome; naked and you clothed me; sick and you visited me, in prison and you came to see me.
Then the virtuous will say to him in reply, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you; or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you hungry and feed you; or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and make you welcome; naked and clothe you; sick or in prison and go to see you?
And the King will answer, " I tell you solemnly, in so far as you did this to one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did it to me."

In other words, whatever kindness your mother did for others, Jesus says He takes the kindess as personal, as if she did it directly for Him, and therefore He welcomes her into eternal joy.

***I *can ask for you that you can have faith. As you state you feel no personal desire for it…but I can pray for it for you and for God’s blessings for you and your mother.
I had ten years when I didn’t believe in God. I wanted to believe but I wasn’t going to kid myself or be a hypocrite. But now I do have faith, a sudden unexpected gift after that ten years.

Take care of yourself…Trishie **

 

[Trishie]

I mean no disrespect in the following. I do respect your honest position and beliefs.
You say that you don’t wish to believe; and I have a cousin who is invincibly athiest…so I tell him if I find I’m dying I’ll phone him at least, as everybody else in the family thinks they’d see me again. He doesn’t.
Since for your mother’s sake there’s some *temporary *grain of desire to believe…the following kind of thing…

I used to ‘pray’
"Power of Goodness and Love, if Your exist, please find Yourself to me. I can’t find You.
Love Yourself in me. I can’t love You."

And I kind of clung to a modification of St Therese’s prayer that she took from St John of the Cross
“That love may be repaid by love alone, Love of God be my love.
Let Your thoughts be my thoughts
Your ways my ways.”

It didn’t give me satisfaction. I just stuck with it, but with a determination not to ‘kid myself’ not to succumb to any self-deception. I used to kneel down in the dark at bed-time and pray that to a God I hoped was there. Ten years of silent God.
I used to stretch my being out in the darkness as if groping for some touch of God.
When it did come it was totally unexpected. When I rose that morning I had no idea I would have gone to Confession and returned to the Church with faith.

But, it doesn’t always happen thus.
And I’m not saying it will or would…but if you wanted to try some honest means of saying "God, if You’re there, I need You to be the one to say so to me"

 

[sarah_anne_628]

I think that on subconscience level you may have a desire to know God whether you want to or not. It could be that He is calling you and in order to understand and be at peace, you must open your heart and listen.

I once asked my brother, who is an athiest, why he didn’t believe in God. He said he looks around in the world and sees no evidence of God. Then he asked me why I believe in God and I said, I look around and see God in everything. I know him personally.

I then told him that God has a plan and that he calls us all and perhaps God has not called my brother yet and that is why he cannot see Him. My brother accepted that as a possibility.

Oftentimes, people who believe in nothing have nothing to hope for when life get rough. I’m not saying that this is the case for you, but by your being here and asking these questions, my guess is something is stirring in your soul. To respond to this, you must let go all of your preconcieved notions and consider the possibilities of something bigger than life as we know it.

 

[Frost]

I’ll make this as short as possible.

My mother is a cancer patient and has recently been given about a year to live. I’m neither a Catholic or Christian of any other denomination (profile isn’t true), have no personal desire to be, but really need to be believe in something more for her.

What is it that I can do considering:

*I have no faith, desire to love God (if he exists), and would not be ‘bothered’ with religion if it weren’t for the circumstances.

*She is going believe that any suggestion like this is just my way of dealing with her passing, might humour me, but is unlikely to genuinely believe it.

She has spent her life caring about others. I can hope that if there is a God, he would show mercy, but I know from the perspective of traditional Catholicism, that isn’t enough.

The idea of an atheist oblivion, no life after death scenario is tolerable for myself, but not her. So aside from converting and in-sincerley trying to believe in something I would otherwise have no interest in, what options are there?

Apologies if this topic is inappropriate. I realise this might not be the place.

I’m sorry to hear about your mother, she’s in my prayers.

I had almost the same experience. I was an atheist, my mother got cancer, and I was faced with the brutality of my disbelief. There were no hope for those I love.

So, I picked up the New Testament and read it from beginning to end. And what I found there was a treasure. I knew I had found someone I couldn’t live without, but I wasn’t able to believe.

I had never had a wish to be a Christian, I had always more or less hated them. To become a Christian would be a blow to my pride and a ruining of my identity. I would have to admit I was wrong.

Yet the drive towards God was so strong. So finally, I surrendered to it and decided to try and see if it worked. I prayed to God and felt very stupid. But when I had said the words “please let me believe in you and be a Christian”, I felt God was there in the room, lifting off all my hate and resistance, and I was fiilled with peace and I felt safe.

My advice is: read the New Testament, so you can know the God your think you might be seeking. If you want to, you can try and see if he’s real: Pray to him.

It is not in our hearts to believe in him, faith is a gift from God which he gives to the one who seeks and asks him. Your lacking desire is perfectly natural, humanly speeking.

As a Christian, you can pray for your mother, surrender everything you fear to him.
He knows what you don’t - he knows your mothers thoughts, though she might keep them from you. Just like he knows you’re seeking him know, he might know just the same with your mother.

Why don’t you talk to your mother about your wish for her - an afterlife - and of your thoughts about God and faith? I’m sure she wants what’s best for you, and is thinking about how it will be for those she’s leaving behind.

(I’m not a Catholic, I’m Lutheran)

 

[Teflon93]

Hi Cynic-

Sorry to hear about your situation—it is extremely difficult.

My father passed away 5 years ago in similar circumstances. He had been a very lapsed Catholic—hadn’t set foot in a church aside from my brother’s wedding some 28 years prior; hadn’t been to Mass so far as I know since he left home at 18.

We had several months from his diagnosis until his death. My brother, sister and I rotated back home throughout to help. I was there at the end, when his doctor broke the news to us after the last radiation treatment that the chemo and radiation had done little to check the cancer’s growth.

During the worst of my father’s depression during treatment, he found it helpful to talk to the priest at the hospital. After we returned home to wait for a hospice bed which would never open, I would administer morphine to him to help him stay ahead of the pain. After about 48 hours, it became very clear that he would not survive the day.

I, though not a Catholic at the time and having no intention to convert then either, called the Catholic parish up the street and requested Last Rites. A priest rushed over and gave my father the sacrament as he lay dying. He passed away less than 2 hours later.

Why did I do that?

Because like you, I wanted only the best for my parents. I couldn’t look into his soul and discern his wishes. I could only do what I thought was best for him. It gave great comfort to the Catholic side of our family when they learned what I had done.

His funeral Mass was held in that same Catholic parish. It was awkward—we didn’t know what to do—but our Catholic relatives got us through it.

Looking back now, I am so grateful that God lent me the faith I was lacking at that time, as he’d lent my father the faith he’d been lacking. I hope to see him on the other side of the veil.

You’re doing the right thing, Cynic—you’re acting out of love and concern for your mother.

 

[CentralFLJames]

I’ll make this as short as possible.

My mother is a cancer patient and has recently been given about a year to live. I’m neither a Catholic or Christian of any other denomination (profile isn’t true), have no personal desire to be, but really need to be believe in something more for her.

What is it that I can do considering:

*I have no faith, desire to love God (if he exists), and would not be ‘bothered’ with religion if it weren’t for the circumstances.

*She is going believe that any suggestion like this is just my way of dealing with her passing, might humour me, but is unlikely to genuinely believe it.

She has spent her life caring about others. I can hope that if there is a God, he would show mercy, but I know from the perspective of traditional Catholicism, that isn’t enough.

The idea of an atheist oblivion, no life after death scenario is tolerable for myself, but not her. So aside from converting and in-sincerley trying to believe in something I would otherwise have no interest in, what options are there?

Apologies if this topic is inappropriate. I realise this might not be the place.

First of all let me offer my sympathies. I lost my own beloved wife to cancer less than 2 years ago. So I can empathize with what you are going through - the key thing here is to never despair and lose hope. This is the most remarkable thing about God - one can find hope in God even in cases where man is in a hopeless situation.

Trust me, after she is gone you will think of her spiritual welfare daily and worry for a long time if there was more you could do for her. So, right now, even if you do not really yet believe - try to pray to God. Don’t make deals and say “if you cure her or save her I will convert”. Just pray to God and ask Him to be merciful and if its His will to heal her or comfort her. Many people who are losing loved ones through cancer and seeing how they endure it patiently and without complain will experience radical conversion. I did. Ironically, God could be giving her this illness as a blessing - as strange and crazy as that sounds. Her suffrage can be “her purgatory” and her works of faith (especially if she offers up all her anxieties and suffering to God - ask her to). In her remaining year she should pray daily and offer up every pain to God - the grace she will receive will be enormous and it will affect everyone around her. Do not be amazed if you find yourself having a radical conversion yourself.

Here is what you can do for her even if you are not a believer. Google “Catholic Mass Cards”. You can enroll her in daily masses for a very small token donation - usually $5. The mass is the highest and best prayer and sacrifice a Catholic or anyone can make for God or another person. Enroll her in a number of these and also call her parish and ask them to include her in their masses and prayers for the sick. Also, get the name of the parish priest and see if you can arrange to get her regular anointing of the sick. Have his number handy when she goes into a palliative care or hospice situation so she can have last rites administered - this is an amazing sacrament.

I’d also try to get her to wear a blessed sacramental like the brown scapular (which requires a daily devotional prayer) since it has promises of enormous graces and final repentance. Keep a blessed photo of the Sacred Heart of Jesus near her bed. This simple pious act honors Christ and also has enormous promises associated with those who put their trust in Christ.

And further, do not discount miracles - they DO happen. Prayer works. Get her church praying for her. There are entire groups of people in church who do nothing but pray for the sick as a devotion or come visit them in home or the hospital. Get her into confession as well. She should go to regular confession and receive the eucharist as often as possible - most parishes even have daily morning masses.

You need to pray too - just do it - even if you do not believe yet. What you don’t recognize is that your love for your mother and your empathy for her is a sign of Christ in you working through human empathy to find a way to do anything you can for a loved one. Christ will open your heart more and more if you let Him in.

In the interim start checking into her financial accounts and try to make sure she has them all set up with transfer on death instructions to her beneficiary to avoid probate. It will also be beneficial if she adds somone in the family to her checking accounts as joint account holder so others can pay her bills and handle expense payments for her when she becomes too sick or when she does pass. If she is not on social security yet - have her file for permanent disability.

God Bless and Good Luck - I will pray for her and you,
James

 

[CentralFLJames]

Oh - I forgot to mention. Also make sure she has a Will and Durable Power of Attorney on file somewhere and an executor and know where it is. Also get her to file a medical Advance Directive and discuss such things as Do Not Resuscitate Orders. The hospitals will require these and need to know the person who can speak on her behalf if she becomes unable to.

James

 

[cynic]

Thank you all for the generous responses

Here is what you can do for her even if you are not a believer. Google “Catholic Mass Cards”. You can enroll her in daily masses for a very small token donation - usually $5. The mass is the highest and best prayer and sacrifice a Catholic or anyone can make for God or another person. Enroll her in a number of these and also call her parish and ask them to include her in their masses and prayers for the sick. Also, get the name of the parish priest and see if you can arrange to get her regular anointing of the sick. Have his number handy when she goes into a palliative care or hospice situation so she can have last rites administered - this is an amazing sacrament.

I’d also try to get her to wear a blessed sacramental like the brown scapular (which requires a daily devotional prayer) since it has promises of enormous graces and final repentance. Keep a blessed photo of the Sacred Heart of Jesus near her bed. This simple pious act honors Christ and also has enormous promises associated with those who put their trust in Christ.

And further, do not discount miracles - they DO happen. Prayer works. Get her church praying for her. There are entire groups of people in church who do nothing but pray for the sick as a devotion or come visit them in home or the hospital. Get her into confession as well. She should go to regular confession and receive the eucharist as often as possible - most parishes even have daily morning masses.

I appreciate some of the practical advice here. I’m not sure how this will go down with her. We live in New Zealand She attended a Methodist Church as young person but is not religious now, none of us are. At this time the Catholics lived on the other side of the street etc… you get the idea. Attending daily church, let alone Mass, would seem alien to her, and the suggestion very awkward coming from me. The family consists of myself, her sister, her 89 year old mother who is very frail, that’s it,

Although we’ve never really had a religious discussion, I think she believes that Christianity is well-meaning, and that an afterlife consists of living on in the memories of others.

But the idea of my mother dissapearing into nothing and only existing in our memories is very depressing.

My advice is: read the New Testament, so you can know the God your think you might be seeking. If you want to, you can try and see if he’s real: Pray to him.

It is not in our hearts to believe in him, faith is a gift from God which he gives to the one who seeks and asks him. Your lacking desire is perfectly natural, humanly speeking.

I read the New Testament a few years ago. I thought it was a good study of human nature. Any other feeling at the time must have been temporary.

As a atheist/agnostic, I’ve argued on these boards the religion is just mans’ way of avoiding the finality of death, and that the Christian representing of God makes him appear to be a narcisist for wanting us to worship and love him without distraction. Now I feel ashamed about saying that sort of thing.

What I *want *to be told is that there’s a God out there who doesn’t judge, that my mother will end up in heaven for being mostly good, without the requirement of conversion and belief (from me either). Of course none of this is compatible with Christianity.

 

[T700]

What I *want *to be told is that there’s a God out there who doesn’t judge, that my mother will end up in heaven for being mostly good, without the requirement of conversion and belief (from me either). Of course none of this is compatible with Christianity.

I really wish I could give you what you want, but in honesty, I cannot. Please take a look at Pascal’s Wager, if you are not already familiar with it. If you can’t believe from a heartfelt understanding (yet), at least help your mother cover her bet.

I will pray for you and for her.

Paul

 

[Frost]

I read the New Testament a few years ago. I thought it was a good study of human nature. Any other feeling at the time must have been temporary.

What about reading it again? Our understanding of every text changes every time we read it, especially when our lives change. But I understand if you don’t want to, it is just a suggestion. You have enough on your mind.

As a atheist/agnostic, I’ve argued on these boards the religion is just mans’ way of avoiding the finality of death, and that the Christian representing of God makes him appear to be a narcisist for wanting us to worship and love him without distraction. Now I feel ashamed about saying that sort of thing.

Of course we all want to avoid the finality of death. I do not believe Christians and atheists are different there. The need for hope is something all humans share. It is not a weakness, it is human. God created us with eternity in our hearts, in His image. It is therefore in our hearts to turn to him or look for a solution or hope when we realise that life is not forever.

What I *want *to be told is that there’s a God out there who doesn’t judge, that my mother will end up in heaven for being mostly good, without the requirement of conversion and belief (from me either). Of course none of this is compatible with Christianity.

What is compatible with Christianity is to embrace Life and the Source of Life. This is God. We cannot survive without air, either. God is like air: Without him, we cannot live (eternally).

Trusting in God is like having a relationship with him, realising we are not able to live in our own, just as we cannot make it without other people. It is in communion with others that we can produce enough food and so on. We are in each others hands. In the same way, we live by God’s help. Only by recieving his help as we recieve help from the people around us can we keep on living.

Focus on God.
Start with him, not Christianity. It is said about him:

He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.

(Isaiah 40: 11)

 

[cynic]

Trusting in God is like having a relationship with him, realising we are not able to live in our own, just as we cannot make it without other people. It is in communion with others that we can produce enough food and so on. We are in each others hands. In the same way, we live by God’s help. Only by recieving his help as we recieve help from the people around us can we keep on living.

The problem is that if we fail to cultivate this relationship with God, then we go to hell. It is a no compromise position. In the end no amount of sympathy is going to change that.

By accepting that a Christian God might exist, I am accepting the possibility of hell for my relatives, if they choose not to acknowledge or love God. It’s likely that they won’t, because none are, or have ever been, religious. They will think that I’ve gone crazy (no offence intended, that’s just the way it is). I guess that sounds like an excuse not to try. Given the situation though, I really don’t want to say “you are a sinner and need to be saved”.

 

[davidv]

The problem is that if we fail to cultivate this relationship with God, then we go to hell. It is a no compromise position. In the end no amount of sympathy is going to change that.

By accepting that a Christian God might exist, I am accepting the possibility of hell for my relatives, if they choose not to acknowledge or love God. It’s likely that they won’t, because none are, or have ever been, religious. They will think that I’ve gone crazy (no offence intended, that’s just the way it is). I guess that sounds like an excuse not to try. Given the situation though, I really don’t want to say “you are a sinner and need to be saved”.

Given the background you have provided, I agree that using this comment would not be appropriate.

The only thing else I can offer is that you should be the best son, or daughter, you know how to be. Your mother loved you and cared for you. The best response you can provide is to love and care for her in return.

With respect to your comment on hell, our acceptance of hell as a possibility has no bearing on its reality.

 

[VociMike]

By accepting that a Christian God might exist, I am accepting the possibility of hell for my relatives, if they choose not to acknowledge or love God.

But, and this is what so many people in your position leave out, you are also accepting the possibility of heaven for them. And if they are truly following the law of God written onto their hearts, the Church holds that they may be saved.

In your world view there is only oblivion, for the good as well as the bad. In the Christian world view there is, yes, hell. But there is also heaven. And not boring floating on clouds strumming a harp heaven, but heaven beyond our wildest imagining.

 

[Della]

The problem is that if we fail to cultivate this relationship with God, then we go to hell. It is a no compromise position. In the end no amount of sympathy is going to change that.

By accepting that a Christian God might exist, I am accepting the possibility of hell for my relatives, if they choose not to acknowledge or love God. It’s likely that they won’t, because none are, or have ever been, religious. They will think that I’ve gone crazy (no offence intended, that’s just the way it is). I guess that sounds like an excuse not to try. Given the situation though, I really don’t want to say “you are a sinner and need to be saved”.

Please allow me to add my prayers to those of the others for your mother.

Our God isn’t eager to see people go to hell. He knows each heart far better than we know them–even our own. He judges us by: what we could know, our circumstances, impediments to belief, and according to how we used the grace he gave us (everyone is given a measure of God’s grace whether they know it or not).

So, God doesn’t condemn people to hell merely for being unable to believe or for being depressed or ill informed, etc. Hell is reserved for those who willfully reject God knowing full well it means being eternally separated from him–and that’s the true torment of hell–being stuck with nothing but one’s own damaged ego for all eternity instead of allowing God, by his grace and our taking advantage of it, to heal us.

A very good book that deals with this issue is C. S. Lewis’ “The Great Divorce”. It’s told in the form of a dream, and it’s filled with insights into the human condition, especially that of Western man and our assumptions about God and life.

All the best to you and your family.

 

[CentralFLJames]

The problem is that if we fail to cultivate this relationship with God, then we go to hell. It is a no compromise position. In the end no amount of sympathy is going to change that.

By accepting that a Christian God might exist, I am accepting the possibility of hell for my relatives, if they choose not to acknowledge or love God. It’s likely that they won’t, because none are, or have ever been, religious. They will think that I’ve gone crazy (no offence intended, that’s just the way it is). I guess that sounds like an excuse not to try. Given the situation though, I really don’t want to say “you are a sinner and need to be saved”.

As others have said, reality is not a function of belief. We Christians most definately believe in absolutes - death itself teaches that lesson in the physical domain. There are just too many natural hints and human longing for most of us to accept that there is no after life. The benefit of the doubt is warranted in both directions during faith formation.

Let me take a different tact. There is another aspect of Christianity that is very apropos here. One can benefit by the prayers and faith of others! The Catholic Church in particular prays daily for the world and large and for conversions and for mercy too for the hardened of heart. Even if you currently do not believe (which I think is showing stress cracks by asking what you can do for your mother) it can not possibly hurt you to ask believers to pray for you. Send in those mass cards - know one will know but you (and of course God). But those prayers will be directed to your mother - and miracles do happen and spiritual changes can happen in an instant.

Give the Holy Spirit the benefit of the doubt. Let the Holy Spirit work for the benefit of a loved one even if you yourself doubt. Love is the root of all Christianity and your concern for your mother is certainly an expression of love - thats a HUGE start to becoming Christian.

Eventually you will come around to seeing that love is the key to everything and without it life is pointless.

James

 

[RunningDuck]

I’ll make this as short as possible.

My mother is a cancer patient and has recently been given about a year to live. I’m neither a Catholic or Christian of any other denomination (profile isn’t true), have no personal desire to be, but really need to be believe in something more for her.

What is it that I can do considering:

*I have no faith, desire to love God (if he exists), and would not be ‘bothered’ with religion if it weren’t for the circumstances.

*She is going believe that any suggestion like this is just my way of dealing with her passing, might humour me, but is unlikely to genuinely believe it.

She has spent her life caring about others. I can hope that if there is a God, he would show mercy, but I know from the perspective of traditional Catholicism, that isn’t enough.

The idea of an atheist oblivion, no life after death scenario is tolerable for myself, but not her. So aside from converting and in-sincerley trying to believe in something I would otherwise have no interest in, what options are there?

Apologies if this topic is inappropriate. I realise this might not be the place.

I’m so sad for you. Indeed, you have a year to love her and show her that you do. Does she know you don’t believe the way she does? You cannot sway her from believing and trusting God that someday he will find you somewhere for a reunion in heaven. God is like that, you know. And she knows it.

Please give her my regards. Tell her a Cherokee named RunningDuck sends greetings and all God’s blessings.