What Can or Should the Catholic Church Do if Gendercide Continues?

[AngryAtheist8]

Gendercide (also known as the War on Baby Girls) is the name of the increasing trend of aborting baby girls in preference for boys in places like India and China. Here is a segment from a relevant article on the subject (I tried posting the whole article but then the post was too long).

By Dr Gursharan Singh Kainth

THE result of 2011 census of India is almost all heartening. Literacy is up; life expectancy is up; family size is stabilizing. But there is one grim exception- India’s already skewed infant sex ratio is getting worse. India counted only 914 girls aged six and under for every 1,000 boys or 75.8m girls and 82.9m boys. This sex ratio is the worst in the recorded history of the modern Indian.

According to 1991 census, the 0-6 sex ratio was 934 girls to 1,000 boys, which decline to 927 as per 2001 census. Nature provides that slightly more boys are born than girls: the normal sex ratio for children aged 0-6 is about 952 girls per 1,000 boys. Fast growth, urbanization and surging literacy seem not to have affected the trend. A cultural preference for sons and the increasing availability of prenatal screening to determine a baby’s sex have helped contribute to a worsening in the ratio, which has been deteriorating rapidly even as the ratio for the population as a whole has improved. A decline was recorded in 28 of the country’s 35 states and Union Territories, among which there is wide variation; from 830 in the northern state of Haryana to 973 Meghalaya in the east. And such imbalances are not confined to India. Last year the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences warned that by 2020 one in five young Chinese men would be unable to find a bride because of the dearth of young women. The sex-ratio is most distorted in the states of the northern Gangetic Plain, such as Punjab.

Haryana, West Bengal, remains the direst of all, with only 830 girls per 1,000 boys. More worrying, places that used not to discriminate in favour of sons, such as the poorer central and north-eastern states, have begun to do so. Economic success seems to spread son preference to places that were once more neutral about the sex composition of their children. The new census showed a worsening sex ratio in all but eight of India’s 35 states and territories (though those eight include some of the most extreme examples, for instance, Punjab). Female literacy, improving general health care, improving female employment rates are slowly redefining motherhood from childbearing to child rearing-an indication that the country has reached a point of inflection. New Delhi launched a round of policy initiatives designed to turn the situation around.

Dr Gursharan Singh Kainth
Director
Guru Arjan Dev Institute of Development Studies
14-Preet Avenue, Majitha Road
PO Naushera, Amritsar 143008

-This is an article from Eurasia Review (link: eurasiareview.com/india-gendercide-a-great-threat-to-security-analysis-14042011/).

Here’s an article from The Economist on the increasing lack of baby girls in India: economist.com/node/18530371

And here is an article about the growing shortage of females in China: dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1265068/China-The-worlds-new-superpower-beginning-century-supremacy-alarming-surplus-males.html

My questions to Catholics are these:
What should the Catholic Church do in response to this growing problem?

What effect will this shortage of women and girls have on the Church in places like China?

What (if anything) can the Catholic Church do to try to fix this demographic disaster?

 

[Wowbagger]

I don’t mean to be glib here, but we can only do what we have always done: spread the Good News. Repent, India, and believe in the Gospel. If they choose not to follow, they will face extraordinary challenges as a society. Too many men for the women available means a lot of loneliness and a lot of bitterness for an awful lot of people who were created by God for something better.

So very much goes wrong when we take the lives of our own children into our hands and choose to snuff them out. India attacks its women; China murders siblings; America has massacred its Downs Syndrome population. I dread the day when we develop a prenatal test for homosexual inclinations. (Wouldn’t it be a strange, sad world if the only surviving gays and lesbians were Catholics!)

Looking on the bright side, all these excess men could put an end to the vocations crisis in the West. We already “import” a lot of priests from burgeoning India. Looks like that’s going to become much more common. But that’s a pretty slim bright side to the many millions of lives that will be diminished by this. To say nothing of the potential for great unrest.

 

[chuckfrmvalyfrg]

AngryAtheist8,
You raise a good question and a timely one .The Catholic Church has been speaking out against abortion for a very , very long time . Why are these sex/gender selected abortions any worse than abortions performed as a last means of birth control ? Have you ever read Dr. Bernard Nathanson ( a founder of NARAL and a n Obstetrician ) after he came out aginst abortion ( he admitted to aborting his own child ) ?
I believe there are normally 104-105 male babies born for every 100 female babies . The demographics in China and India will probably have disastrous consequences . In these two countries large percentages of men will have virtually no chance of marrying and raising a family . This will probably lead to higher crime rates, more drug and alcohol abuse , more gambling , increases in prostitution and generally more anti-social behavior on the part of young men ! All these “extra” young men could also inspire unscrupulous government leaders to more quickly engage in military adventures , since they might view their male population as suddenly more expendable .
What is really required is a re-orientation by the world regarding the nature and purpose of sex itself . Until sex is viewed to be both procreative and unitive and reserved for the married state , I don’t have much hope for a change of heart .If sex is "just " about recreation , then it’s gonna be , " legs up city , show no pity " ! Until marriage itself is understood to be about children and family and not merely “coupling” I don’t see how we can be sanguine .
Even in the U.S. there are cases of affluent women ( even married ones ) going through in-vitro fertilization and because these frequently result in multiple pregnancies , the mother will "selectively reduce " her pregnancy . In other words , she finds out she is carrying three fetuses , so she aborts two . This was a famous case of a magazine editor ( or similar affluent career / and she was married ) .
But as I asked you in the 1st paragraph , why are these Gendercide abortions any different than the 40-50 million abortions that have occured in the U.S. since Roe v. Wade ?

 

[Brendan_McCabe]

The Church is doing all it can against abortion period, regardless of gender.

The Church will continue to state that abortion is a grave evil and that all children, including those in the womb, are created by God, have a right to life, are a great blessing to the world, that the primary purpose of marriage and the sexual act is the creation of children and to promote the culture of life as it has been doing for decades.

Truth is you are coming to the battle late if you have just realized these are terrible things, we have been fighting this kind of thing already for a very long time, and have been constantly mocked and belittled for our “outdated” and “sexist” beliefs.

Apparently women have a right to murder their babies and to say otherwise is to oppress women, explain that one to me.

 

[ANNE_2]

Catholic individuals can refuse to vote for ANY Poltician who supports Abortion in the USA, who then supports abortion internationally like our current President Obama.

In the USA, incumbents all have public voting records, and therefor we know politicians true positions rather than any other impression they may try to give.

The Catholic Church does not have any political influence in China, and only a small percentage of the population are Catholic.
The Chinese Government appoints many of the Priests and Bishops, and even Ministers of Protestant Faiths, so they can have complete control.

There are an estimated 65 million Protestants and only 12 million Catholics in China.
China has over 1.3 Billion people.

 

[Bobby_Jim]

In places like India, I presume a lot of this has to do with traditional cultural attitudes towards men and women and marriage - a girl is a liability, in the sense that you will eventually have to “pay” another family (in the form of a dowry) to take her off your hands, whereas a boy will entitle you to a dowry from another family. And if a girl “makes a mistake” (i.e. is caught with a man before marriage, or even is raped) then that girl is “damaged goods” and will never be married off, bringing shame and lifetime financial burden on the family, although there is no such consequence for boys. So all in all, girls are a financial liability and potential source of shame, whereas boys represent financial gain with no risk.

On the whole I suppose it all averages out, but for the family that has all girls and no money or property, they feel trapped. Of course killing the baby girl (and it happens after birth as well) is the worst possible solution to the problem. By the way this cultural attitude toward men & women & marriage is certainly not unique to India, but the shifting gender statistics indicate it seems it is now manifested in abortion and infanticide more often than before. Long-standing cultural attitudes are very difficult to adjust, and when it happens quickly (whether the sexual “revolution” in the west, or the “cultural revolution” in China) the end result may not be good.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

I don’t mean to be glib here, but we can only do what we have always done: spread the Good News. Repent, India, and believe in the Gospel. If they choose not to follow, they will face extraordinary challenges as a society. Too many men for the women available means a lot of loneliness and a lot of bitterness for an awful lot of people who were created by God for something better.

So very much goes wrong when we take the lives of our own children into our hands and choose to snuff them out. India attacks its women; China murders siblings; America has massacred its Downs Syndrome population. I dread the day when we develop a prenatal test for homosexual inclinations. (Wouldn’t it be a strange, sad world if the only surviving gays and lesbians were Catholics!)

Looking on the bright side, all these excess men could put an end to the vocations crisis in the West. We already “import” a lot of priests from burgeoning India. Looks like that’s going to become much more common. But that’s a pretty slim bright side to the many millions of lives that will be diminished by this. To say nothing of the potential for great unrest.

So you’re saying that that the Catholic Church can do nothing, aside from what its already doing?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

AngryAtheist8,
You raise a good question and a timely one .The Catholic Church has been speaking out against abortion for a very , very long time . Why are these sex/gender selected abortions any worse than abortions performed as a last means of birth control ? Have you ever read Dr. Bernard Nathanson ( a founder of NARAL and a n Obstetrician ) after he came out aginst abortion ( he admitted to aborting his own child ) ?
I believe there are normally 104-105 male babies born for every 100 female babies . The demographics in China and India will probably have disastrous consequences . In these two countries large percentages of men will have virtually no chance of marrying and raising a family . This will probably lead to higher crime rates, more drug and alcohol abuse , more gambling , increases in prostitution and generally more anti-social behavior on the part of young men ! All these “extra” young men could also inspire unscrupulous government leaders to more quickly engage in military adventures , since they might view their male population as suddenly more expendable .
What is really required is a re-orientation by the world regarding the nature and purpose of sex itself . Until sex is viewed to be both procreative and unitive and reserved for the married state , I don’t have much hope for a change of heart .If sex is "just " about recreation , then it’s gonna be , " legs up city , show no pity " ! Until marriage itself is understood to be about children and family and not merely “coupling” I don’t see how we can be sanguine .
Even in the U.S. there are cases of affluent women ( even married ones ) going through in-vitro fertilization and because these frequently result in multiple pregnancies , the mother will "selectively reduce " her pregnancy . In other words , she finds out she is carrying three fetuses , so she aborts two . This was a famous case of a magazine editor ( or similar affluent career / and she was married ) .
But as I asked you in the 1st paragraph , why are these Gendercide abortions any different than the 40-50 million abortions that have occured in the U.S. since Roe v. Wade ?

On an individual level these abortions based on ancient prejudices against girls might not be any different than the abortions in the West. But taken as the whole they are warping societies (especially that of China and India) into an overly male parody of themselves, perhaps to the point of extinction (for who will give birth to following generations of Indians or Chinese if there are no virtually no Indian or Chinese girls).

 

[AngryAtheist8]

The Church is doing all it can against abortion period, regardless of gender.

The Church will continue to state that abortion is a grave evil and that all children, including those in the womb, are created by God, have a right to life, are a great blessing to the world, that the primary purpose of marriage and the sexual act is the creation of children and to promote the culture of life as it has been doing for decades.

Truth is you are coming to the battle late if you have just realized these are terrible things, we have been fighting this kind of thing already for a very long time, and have been constantly mocked and belittled for our “outdated” and “sexist” beliefs.

Apparently women have a right to murder their babies and to say otherwise is to oppress women, explain that one to me.

Its not reasonable to blame things like Feminism, Secularism, or Modernism for this problem if that’s what you’re trying to do.

The desirability of sons and the degradation of women and girls is a part of traditional Chinese and Indian society (as well as many other traditional societies). Moreover there is a long inglorious tradition of female infanticide in places like Indian and China, so you can’t place the blame on the corrupting influence of Western values.

Of course China is different, because their government is largely responsible for this problem (in China). But China is a special case in so many ways.

However, for the most part the ‘War on Baby Girls’ is not a result of government policies or changing attitudes. Its the result of ancient prejudices (against girls) combining with new technologies (particularly the sonogram machine) and new economics (where having a large family is no longer the huge asset it once was).

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Catholic individuals can refuse to vote for ANY Poltician who supports Abortion in the USA, who then supports abortion internationally like our current President Obama.

In the USA, incumbents all have public voting records, and therefor we know politicians true positions rather than any other impression they may try to give.

The Catholic Church does not have any political influence in China, and only a small percentage of the population are Catholic.
The Chinese Government appoints many of the Priests and Bishops, and even Ministers of Protestant Faiths, so they can have complete control.

There are an estimated 65 million Protestants and only 12 million Catholics in China.
China has over 1.3 Billion people.

Are you saying that the Church can do nothing to tackle this problem?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

In places like India, I presume a lot of this has to do with traditional cultural attitudes towards men and women and marriage - a girl is a liability, in the sense that you will eventually have to “pay” another family (in the form of a dowry) to take her off your hands, whereas a boy will entitle you to a dowry from another family. And if a girl “makes a mistake” (i.e. is caught with a man before marriage, or even is raped) then that girl is “damaged goods” and will never be married off, bringing shame and lifetime financial burden on the family, although there is no such consequence for boys. So all in all, girls are a financial liability and potential source of shame, whereas boys represent financial gain with no risk.

On the whole I suppose it all averages out, but for the family that has all girls and no money or property, they feel trapped. Of course killing the baby girl (and it happens after birth as well) is the worst possible solution to the problem. By the way this cultural attitude toward men & women & marriage is certainly not unique to India, but the shifting gender statistics indicate it seems it is now manifested in abortion and infanticide more often than before. Long-standing cultural attitudes are very difficult to adjust, and when it happens quickly (whether the sexual “revolution” in the west, or the “cultural revolution” in China) the end result may not be good.

Your words seem to mirror the consensus of the experts cited in articles like the ones I listed in the first post.

 

[Bobby_Jim]

Your words seem to mirror the consensus of the experts cited in articles like the ones I listed in the first post.

that’s because I heard a story about this on NPR a couple of weeks ago.

My general sense is that infanticide and sex-selective abortion is more common than it used to be, but I don’t really know. Well of course sex-selective abortion is recent because it depends on ultrasound technology. But I have always thought that most people around the world, regardless of culture or religion, have historically valued children, maybe boys a little more than girls, but not to the point of killing the girls.

So I wonder if maybe this is a phenomenon of a culture clash - a traditional sense that boys are more valuable than girls, combined with a crass modern materialism and utilitarianism. These situations with families thinking of girls as an “expense” are nothing new, and lots of people have always been poor. If popular stories can be considered reflective of actual cultural values and practice, the example of Fiddler on the Roof comes to mind - Tevye grumbles about being poor and having only daughters, but it’s just grumbling - in that culture it would have been unthinkable to ever kill a child. I don’t think many cultures have stories that celebrate or take for granted the notion of killing girl babies. But I’m not an anthropologist or anything, so what do I know.

 

[Brendan_McCabe]

The Church is the most consistently outspoken opponent of this kind of thing in the world what more do you expect the Church to do?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

The Church is the most consistently outspoken opponent of this kind of thing in the world what more do you expect the Church to do?

I don’t know.

But the Catholic Church claims to be **the **moral and spiritual authority (at least on the Earthly plane of existence).

Considering such a claim, as well as its size and resources, it would be rather pathetic if it couldn’t do anything to address this problem.

 

[Rence]

I don’t know.

But the Catholic Church claims to be **the **moral and spiritual authority (at least on the Earthly plane of existence).

Considering such a claim, as well as its size and resources, it would be rather pathetic if it couldn’t do anything to address this problem.

That’s all true, BUT the Church only has as much power as the people, or an individual give it. One can only be compelled to follow Church rules if one is subject to the rules. Even Catholics don’t obey the Church, not just in the matter of abortion, but a whole list of do’s and don’ts. So how can it do more in a country where the Church is not recognized as having any authority? Just because the Catholic Church claims to be the moral and spiritual authority, doesn’t mean that everyone in the world will accept that claim.

In the past, the Church was able to get secular authorities to enforce Catholic rules and laws because they were incorporated into secular laws. Aligning one’s self with the Church gave a country status and a powerful ally. When one was cast out from that alignment, they were alone and without allies, and all the other Church-alignd countries would oppress the outcasted country. The world isn’t like that anymore. The Church has no real power unless a person gives it to them. In other words, the Church would have to reach the lawmakers in India and China and compell them to follow their rules and laws…not going to happen unless those lawmakers recognize the power of the Church and are willing to obey them.

 

[chuckfrmvalyfrg]

On an individual level these abortions based on ancient prejudices against girls might not be any different than the abortions in the West. But taken as the whole they are warping societies (especially that of China and India) into an overly male parody of themselves, perhaps to the point of extinction (for who will give birth to following generations of Indians or Chinese if there are no virtually no Indian or Chinese girls).

AngryAtheist ,
Why does your anger seem to be so selective ? How willing are you to proclaim all abortion is wrong ? These gender selective abortions in China & India are " warping societies " but the 40 -50 million abortions in the U. S. are NOT warping U. S. Society ? How about all the abortions in the west besides the U.S. , why aren’t those societies being warped ? How do you explain the birth rate in Europe , at a time when Europe has never been so prosperous and secure ? Europe is certainly dyeing at a much faster rate than China & India ( and they are not really dyeing ) .
In the U.S. there is a ’ holocaust " in the Black community, it’s called abortion ( and to a slightly lesser extent it is also happening in the Hispanic community ) .
Why does it seem that abortion based on gender draws your ire but abortion as "birth control ( i.e., to allow for sex without consequences ) doesn’t elicit a peep ?
The Catholic Church has always condemned abortion , why do they have to do anything more ?
In your posts you keep asking what more can the Church do , I’m curious , how much more do you want the Church to do in opposing same-sex marriage ?

 

[chuckfrmvalyfrg]

I don’t know.

But the Catholic Church claims to be **the **moral and spiritual authority (at least on the Earthly plane of existence).

Considering such a claim, as well as its size and resources, it would be rather pathetic if it couldn’t do anything to address this problem.

AngryAtheist ,
What part of “free will” don’t you understand ? There are seven deadly sins , which is the greatest ? I’ll give you a hint , Lucifer , Adam and Eve were all guilty of it . They all had free will and they all disobeyed God ( and don’t knock free will , if you didn’t have it you would be condemning God ) …In China , the Catholic Church is not free to practice it’s faith openly and w/out restraint . The state sanctioned Catholic Church is not likely to oppose the govt . India is also somewhat hostile to the Catholic Church as well .
Oh , I think I know what you want ! Tello me , where do you want the Vatican to send the Swiss Guard first , China or India ?

 

[chuckfrmvalyfrg]

Its not reasonable to blame things like Feminism, Secularism, or Modernism for this problem if that’s what you’re trying to do.

The desirability of sons and the degradation of women and girls is a part of traditional Chinese and Indian society (as well as many other traditional societies). Moreover there is a long inglorious tradition of female infanticide in places like Indian and China, so you can’t place the blame on the corrupting influence of Western values.

Of course China is different, because their government is largely responsible for this problem (in China). But China is a special case in so many ways.

However, for the most part the ‘War on Baby Girls’ is not a result of government policies or changing attitudes. Its the result of ancient prejudices (against girls) combining with new technologies (particularly the sonogram machine) and new economics (where having a large family is no longer the huge asset it once was).

Angry ,
Why isn’t it appropriate, at least in the West , to blame Feminism , Secularism and Modernism ( and their corruptive influences , not all their influences are corrupt ) to some degree for our high rates of abortion ?
Why isn’t China’s govt. to blame for it’s war on second children ? How is this one child policy not directly responsible for many abortions , some of which will be gender based ?
China and India have something in common , both of their moral systems are not based on Judeo/Christian values . Show me a country that’s moral system is based on Judeo/Christian values that is engaging in what you call gendercide ? All moral systems are not equal .
Why don’t you ask the editor of Reason Magazine , Bill Maher,or any of the " New Atheists" to solve this problem ? Until recently you could have asked Antony Flew to solve this problem , but then he up and became a Deist . What can a man count on ?
Why don’t you enlist the Gender Feminists to engage this issue ? Up until now , these " ladies " have claimed that every woman has a right to abort her innocent child from conception until it’s head is half-way out the birth canal .In other words , abortion at any time for any reason . How can you hold that position and then tell Chinese and Indian women to stop having abortions for whatever reason they choose ? I can see it now , at the U.N. , Chinese and Indian women accuse western Feminists of Cultural Imperialism !

 

[Brendan_McCabe]

I don’t know.

But the Catholic Church claims to be **the **moral and spiritual authority (at least on the Earthly plane of existence).

Considering such a claim, as well as its size and resources, it would be rather pathetic if it couldn’t do anything to address this problem.

The Church is doing something and has been doing something for a very long time, Catholics have gave their lifes in both China and India to try and stop this kind of thing, what have you been doing to support the Church in her efforts to stop abortion?

What has the rest of the world been doing to stop what is happening?

I will tell you, they have actually been funding it through the UN and other organizations while at the same time trying to undermine the Churches moral authority. All who deny the Church’s moral authority play a part in preventing the Church from stopping this great tragedy that you are now lamenting.

msnbc.msn.com/id/28812519/ns/politics-white_house/
cwalac.org/cwblog/?p=290

Feminists, modernists secularists and atheists are overwhelmingly in favor of abortion, which is the cause of gendercide by the way.

Instead of insulting the one organization that has consistently tried to stop abortion and the accompanying gendercide I suggest you go and let your political representative know how you feel about the fact that if you pay taxes you are actually funding this gendercide,

 

[chuckfrmvalyfrg]

The Church is doing something and has been doing something for a very long time, Catholics have gave their lifes in both China and India to try and stop this kind of thing, what have you been doing to support the Church in her efforts to stop abortion?

What has the rest of the world been doing to stop what is happening?

I will tell you, they have actually been funding it through the UN and other organizations while at the same time trying to undermine the Churches moral authority.

msnbc.msn.com/id/28812519/ns/politics-white_house/
cwalac.org/cwblog/?p=290

Feminists, modernists secularists and atheists are overwhelmingly in favor of abortion, which is the cause of gendercide by the way.

Instead of insulting the one organization that has consistently tried to stop abortion and the accompanying gendercide I suggest you go and let your political representative know how you feel about the fact that if you pay taxes you are actually funding this gendercide,

Brendan McCabe ,
Well said , well said !