What can science tell us about truth, goodness, freedom, justice, beauty and love?

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What can the Bible tell us about the best way to treat Hodgkin’s lymphoma, or whether the Kiwi fruit in my garden are ripe?

Science does a lot of things very, very, very well - as demonstrated by the very system you are using to pose this question. Aesthetic, moral or legal decisions are not among them - so what? :rolleyes:
 
DrTaffy said:
What can the Bible tell us about the best way to treat Hodgkin’s lymphoma, or whether the Kiwi fruit in my garden are ripe?

Science does a lot of things very, very, very well - as demonstrated by the very system you are using to pose this question. Aesthetic, moral or legal decisions are not among them - so what? :rolleyes:
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Is science **sufficient **to make you and others happy and live in harmony?
 
tonyrey said:
Is science **sufficient **to make you and others happy and live in harmony?
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On its own, I assume you mean? If so, then no, but I never claimed that it did. It does contribute far more to my life than the Bible does. Arguably religion does more to prevent people living in harmony than otherwise.

Is religion sufficient to make you happy, and if so why are you using a computer and not squatting naked in a cave eating raw food that you caught with your bare hands? Or is it possible that no one thing has to do everything in life?
 
DrTaffy said:
On its own, I assume you mean? If so, then no, but I never claimed that it did. It does contribute far more to my life than the Bible does. Arguably religion does more to prevent people living in harmony than otherwise.
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So you reject the moral teaching of Jesus?
Is religion sufficient to make you happy, and if so why are you using a computer and not squatting naked in a cave eating raw food that you caught with your bare hands? Or is it possible that no one thing has to do everything in life?
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The topic is not whether religion is sufficient…
 
tonyrey said:
So you reject the moral teaching of Jesus?
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I would say rather that I do not rely on the moral teachings of Jesus. Those bits I agree with I can derive from first principles, which means far far more to me than an unsupported assertion in a book.
tonyrey said:
The topic is not whether religion is sufficient…
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So why should religion not be held to the same standard as science? Are you saying that science is far more capable than religion?
 
Science can tell you that you get sick from bacteria and viruses and that the sun doesn’t revolve around the earth, but what it can’t tell you is that rape is wrong and that murder is wrong. Morals come from God and the Bible.
 
um… nothing. That’s like asking what the Bible says about evolution, the Big Bang,
dinosaurs, etc, because it doesn’t (Though God’s first words revealed, “Let there be
Light,” is *kinda *Big-Bang-y).

I’m sure science can give us information on what we think (on a neuro-
logical level) about truth, goodness, freedom, justice, beauty and love,
but as far as those six subjects by themselves, nothing.
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
um… nothing. That’s like asking what the Bible says about evolution, the Big Bang,
dinosaurs, etc, because it doesn’t (Though God’s first words revealed, “Let there be
Light,” is *kinda *Big-Bang-y).

I’m sure science can give us information on what we think (on a neuro-
logical level) about** truth**, goodness, freedom, justice, beauty and love,
but as far as those six subjects by themselves, nothing.
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Are we using different definitions of “truth”? Because if science can’t give us “truth” about certain things then what is the point of it at all? For that matter, if science can’t lead us to any kind of “truth” then how are we even having this conversation to begin with? (The internet presumably required some kind of scientific research to create :p:p:p)

I would imagine that science can teach us quite a bit about “beauty” and “love” too, though again depending on the way in which you’re defining those words. I.e., certainly not the same types of things that Christ can teach us about “love”, but just as an example, posters here frequently bring up scientific studies with regards to that subject that show that sex between two people creates a kind of bond and that is part of the reason that pre-marital sex is dangerous.
 
It can contribute to them.

In terms of truth, science can give us how things happen, but cannot tell us why they happened, as in the true purpose of it. For example, we can tell how life is formed through complex carbon molecules, but we cannot say why there is life in the first place.

Science can lead us to become better persons, as newer studies unveil how good people live happy and healthy lives.

Science shows there is order and harmony in nature. And while it still can’t define love at its core, science has already explained and analyzed the structure of love at a neurological level.
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
Are we using different definitions of “truth”? Because if science can’t give us “truth” about certain things then what is the point of it at all? For that matter, if science can’t lead us to any kind of “truth” then how are we even having this conversation to begin with? (The internet presumably required some kind of scientific research to create :p:p:p)
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Perhaps we are using different definitions, sorry! :o
In my debates against Creationism, I sometimes distinguish the difference between
Truth & Fact, Truth being used in the religious context, what everything means on a
deep spiritual level, while Facts are more in light of the physical universe. So when
you group Truth with "goodness and “freedom” and so forth, I assumed you were go-
ing for a Truth in a more religious context.
So take the creation story in Genesis, it’s all true, won’t deny that, but all factual?
That a 'nother matter. 😃
VeritasLuxMea said:
I would imagine that science can teach us quite a bit about “beauty” and “love” too, though again depending on the way in which you’re defining those words. I.e., certainly not the same types of things that Christ can teach us about “love”, but just as an example, posters here frequently bring up scientific studies with regards to that subject that show that sex between two people creates a kind of bond and that is part of the reason that pre-marital sex is dangerous.
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Well I did kinda touch on that a bit:
Judas_Thaddeus said:
I’m sure science can give us information on what we think (on a neuro-
logical level) about truth, goodness, freedom, justice, beauty and love,
but as far as those six subjects by themselves, nothing.
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tonyrey said:
???
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Science IS truth… It put witch Doctors out of business…

Science is beauty… It shows Nature in its true light…

Science is truth by proving the goodness in Nature…

Science provides freedom from witch doctors,tribal elders…by providing actual facts of how the entire universe works .

Science shows how things work which the bible can not…

That’s why the bible and science have a good partnership…
 
Okay, disclaimer here: I am not perfectly sure if this is theologically compatible with Church teaching, as I got this perspective from a non-Catholic. Feel free to call me out for heresy 🙂

But…during my college years, a physics professor was solving a difficult problem on the blackboard. Then, once he got to the end, we suddenly realized how elegant of a solution it was; the terms just started to cancel themselves out, etc. He asked us if we thought it was right.
We were like…yes, we thinks so, but its way too good to be true.
And he replied: it is probably right, because the method of solving it is beautiful. “And truth is always beautiful,” he said.

I thought…God is Truth, and God is Beautiful…hey, this guy is not Catholic, but he might have something there.

Now, as a medical student, I often find myself marveling at the way the human body is formed. during dissections and during class How beautifully and logically Someone has put us together!
 
tonyrey said:
???
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Truth: It shows how the world works. Science helps us better understand the mind of God and how he creates. But of course it doesn’t answer the “why?”.

Goodness: I don’t know. Maybe that sunny beaches are good? 😛

Freedom: Nothing.

Justice: Nothing.

Beauty: A lot. Just look at how extremely complex the universe is, and how detailed everything is even down to the smallest cell, and you see a lot of beauty from God.

Love: Not much.

There ya go. :cool:
 
I think Science can only be true when it acknowledges the work of all creation to be of God’s. And when it does this, then Science does reveal the truth, goodness, freedom, justice, beauty, and love in God’s creation, past, present, and future. But when God is taken out as the maker of all things, visible and invisible, then the Science isn’t true or authentic, in that it isn’t entire.

I think a lot of people like to pit Science vs. Religion (I once overhead two young girls sitting on a bus - one asked the other, “Do you believe in God?” The other says, “No, I believe in science.”) It is sad, when young people are driven to believe that if they believe scientific claims, then they must deny God, or vice versa. They have lost the connection of linking nature with the creator, where then they can see that God is driving the works of the world, what is being studied in “Science”. You cannot separate the two, because once you do, Truth is no longer told in its entirety. Unfortunately, many scientists do not view science as revealing the works of God (and may weed out those who do), and actually portray a view that the knowledge they obtain excludes God! The textbooks that children study subconsciously portray this thought. We need more faithful, Catholic scientists!!!
 
DrTaffy said:
So you reject the moral teaching of Jesus?
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What are your first principles?
The topic is not whether religion is sufficient…
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So why should religion not be held to the same standard as science?
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Science is restricted to material reality. Philosophy and religion are concerned with reality as a whole which is far more complex, controversial and important.
Are you saying that science is far more capable than religion?
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No. It is incapable of answering questions about the value and purpose of life.
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Malon101 said:
I think Science can only be true when it acknowledges the work of all creation to be of God’s. And when it does this, then Science does reveal the truth, goodness, freedom, justice, beauty, and love in God’s creation, past, present, and future. But when God is taken out as the maker of all things, visible and invisible, then the Science isn’t true or authentic, in that it isn’t entire.

I think a lot of people like to pit Science vs. Religion (I once overhead two young girls sitting on a bus - one asked the other, “Do you believe in God?” The other says, “No, I believe in science.”) It is sad, when young people are driven to believe that if they believe scientific claims, then they must deny God, or vice versa. They have lost the connection of linking nature with the creator, where then they can see that God is driving the works of the world, what is being studied in “Science”. You cannot separate the two, because once you do, Truth is no longer told in its entirety. Unfortunately, many scientists do not view science as revealing the works of God (and may weed out those who do), and actually portray a view that the knowledge they obtain excludes God! The textbooks that children study subconsciously portray this thought. We need more faithful, Catholic scientists!!!
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Code: 
   Correct. !

  One needs the other... it's ok to believe that God created everything....

 But isn't it good that science backs it up with proof...

otherwise Witchdoctors and Elders weather religious ,tribal or by the state will dictate what you will believe.... science shows everything so all can see without bias
 
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