What can we do to solve environmental problems?

[anilorak13ska]

Lynnvinc - I agree that many people just don’t seem to care, and it is so frustrating. I was called the “recycling queen” in my office in my old job bc until we finally got recycling containers in the office (long and arduous process), I would collect the paper, plastic, and cans from our (small) office and take them home to recycle. It physically hurts me to see a recylable item in the trash, and I do dig in the trash when I see it. I don’t go looking for it, but if I see it, I can’t pass by without correcting the problem!

LittleSoldier - Yes! I did realize that I must use hot water for my dog’s blankets and the like. I’m not usually one to share the mellow-yellow/flush the brown attitude, but ever since I first read about it, I’ve incorporated it at home and thank God my husband is on board with it. The only challenge is making sure we’re all “in the clear” when guests come over!

When we let our dogs out in the backyard, we do have cleanup days and I too have found this to clog the toilet. What I do is pace myself, limiting how much I flush at a time. I have no suggestions for cats and cat litter, unfortunately. Unless maybe composting in a flower garden?

A few other suggestions:

Cloth diapers. I’ve heard the argument against it bc you have to wash them, but if I compare the energy and water used to wash the diapers versus the energy and water used to manufacture the disposables PLUS the problem of biodegradability, I think we have a winner. (Btw, I would never put a safety pin anywhere near a small child.)

Breastfeeding versus bottle feeding, when possible.

Possible TMI, especially for men…Also, feminine hygiene products are available that do not end up in landfills. There’s cloth pads/liners, but there’s also menstrual cups that are worn like a tampon but emptied out and washed regularly.

Because of the sheer numer of these items that are generally needed, the green options here end up the economic options as well.

 

[FaithBuild18]

Actually, juicing and pureeing veggies/fruits is a better way to go (and that does require some energy, but perhaps not as much as cooking/canning). It helps to cure cancer and a number of other diseases – the raw, vegan diet. I’ve seen in work for many people. So for health reasons, if not for environmental reasons, it is a good diet.

I think your livestock meat is probably good, since it is grass-fed and organic. I’m thinking the real risk in meat is the pesticides that bioaccumulate, and perhaps not the meat per se. Not sure if any studies bear that out, but there are studies that implicate meat-based diets in cancer and heart-disease.

Bingo. You’re absolutely correct.

Careful with your wording though, eating a vegan diet does not cure a single disease. Rather it avoids some of the causes of certain diseases, specifically many types of cancers. Meat is a great food. Without eating meat you will be deficient in certain nutrients and vitamins, specifically B12. You are not going to necessarily be in better health if you avoid all meat products. There are very few civilizations, none that I know of, that have eaten exclusively veggies and had the strength and longevity to support the validity of such a lifestyle. But on the other hand, before everything was industrialized on this continent, plenty of northern peoples (such as the Inuit) ate exclusively meat, that they killed on their own without adding any carcinogens to it, and lived remarkably healthy, long lives. As soon as you industrialize the process, i.e. add preservatives, you get the diseases.

I get annoyed rather quickly by the mother earth loving neo-pagan leftist environmentalists that seem to accumulate in your topics, partly because I believe they are heretics, partly (mostly) because they spew total and complete lies about health and the ecosystem, so I apologize if I lose my patience at some point in this topic.

 

[bigfootbob]

I’m only going to make a few helpful comments and not argue about the things I disagree with so I don’t get myself into too much hot water

Here’s a list for starters (some are more feasible than others, and most save money):

…REDUCE consumption - buy things that last

So many of the “Green” products out there are garbage and are not made well. If you really want to be green, buy a quality product that you won’t have to replace, even if it isn’t manufactured as green as the other one.

CONSERVE ENERGY:

• turn off lights not in use
• Insulate home
• passive solar home

DRIVE LESS:

• run multiple errands
• live close to work/school
• off engine in drive-thrus (and order the veggie burger – see Eco-Foods below)
• cycle, walk, bus

These things also save $$ so we should be doing them anyway, but please don’t try make me eat the veggie burger… not a good idea.

REUSE, avoid throwaways. Use:

• back side of paper
• ceramic cups, cloth napkins & diapers
• artificial Christmas trees

Do NOT buy artificial Christmas trees! Real trees are way better for the environment. I don’t understand why people think plastic trees are better. It’s not like we’re cutting down stands of virgin timber. They are replanted and provide years of benefit for the environment. A plastic tree take a very long time to decompose. Plus, you will be supporting an small American farmer and American jobs instead of a big Chinese factory.

EAT ECO-FOOD:

• REDUCE MEAT, reduce impact on land & energy use, & improve health.
• Eat ORGANIC
• Eat raw produce, good for health & earth.
• Become a LOCAVORE & eat locally grown produce.

No way am I reducing meat. Period. But locally grown and organic foods are a good thing, and they taste way better too.

 

[Do_Good_Then_Go]

I’ve never had a dryer and while there are times when it rains for days on end and I start to question my sanity, the clothes eventually get dry. I wash everything in cold water.

One thing I’m not sure of is dishwashers. I don’t have one, I’d love too though and I’ve read that they actually use less water than traditional washing up. Has anyone found this to be the case?

I use ‘green bags’ at the supermarket as often as I can. I used to constantly forget to take them with me but now I try to put the bags back in the car as soon as I’ve unpacked the shopping. I shop for groceries online about half the time - it saves me time and petrol and I avoid the frustration of looking for a parking spot and battling my way through the aisles with those defective trolleys that supermarkets seem to love! It also prevents all that impulse buying.

I think water use is the hardest thing for me. I love a long hot shower and I indulge myself some of the time but in general I try to get in and out fairly quickly.

Incandescent light bulbs haven’t been available at all here for quite some time and I haven’t had to replace a light bulb since we started using the energy efficient type.

I’m with you bigfootbob, I’m not giving up my meat but most of the ideas in this thread are great.

 

[lynnvinc]

Hi LittleSoldier. Good to see you here.

About washing clothes in cold water: I have done this but I have also read that some clothes should always be washed in hot water; e.g. dog blankets and bedding. There can be a problem with vermin if they are not; bed bugs specifically (and they are killed at 118 degrees F, I believe).

There are dust mite treaments using tea tree oil I think, and I’m not sure but I think you can use that and wash in cold or warm, and effectively get rid of dust mites, but I’m not sure about other bed bugs or pet blanket issues.

Also re clothes line issue. It is way too hot and sunny for outside here, so I have an indoor foldable clothes rack. My husband wants his dried in the dryer, so I dry mine on the rack & on hangers in the laundry room and his in the dryer – using 4 of those dryer balls. Also it helps to shake out the clothes before putting them in the dryer to dry them faster.

 

[lynnvinc]

Bingo. You’re absolutely correct.

Careful with your wording though, eating a vegan diet does not cure a single disease. Rather it avoids some of the causes of certain diseases, specifically many types of cancers. Meat is a great food. Without eating meat you will be deficient in certain nutrients and vitamins, specifically B12. You are not going to necessarily be in better health if you avoid all meat products. There are very few civilizations, none that I know of, that have eaten exclusively veggies and had the strength and longevity to support the validity of such a lifestyle. But on the other hand, before everything was industrialized on this continent, plenty of northern peoples (such as the Inuit) ate exclusively meat, that they killed on their own without adding any carcinogens to it, and lived remarkably healthy, long lives. As soon as you industrialize the process, i.e. add preservatives, you get the diseases.

You may be right about “cure” v. “prevention,” but I had a severe gall badder problem and by simply going on the 2/3 raw produce, vegan diet the problem went away. I suppose it wasn’t cured, bec it came back a year latter, and I had to go back on that diet again for about a month.

Also scientists have actually found some curative elements in some foods and plants, and many of our pharmaceuticals originally came from plants and are now synthetically made. But again, it is probably that they help the body fight off the disease rather than actually cure it the way surgery would cut it out. OTOH, surgery puts lots of stress on the body and works against the body helping to fight the disease (we lost our brother-in-law last year due to complications after an extremely successful surgery). I think a good balance of mainstream medicine & treatments, dietary, and herbal supplements may be good in many cases.

I actually found a better cure/prevention for my interstitial cystitis on-line – the OTC herbal-based medicine was developed by a urologist, and the diet works very well (there were several on-line diets and by trial and error I found the one that works the best, including herbal teas like peppermint and chamomile (who knew?)). My doctor had only given me pills the year before when I first got it (which did work to some extent) and no idea at all about a diet, but bec my pills had run out & I didn’t want to wait 5 hours in my drs office just to get another prescription…which then worked out of the best for me.

RE B12, I believe alfalfa and perhaps some other plant foods and herbs are high in B12.

I myself do not stick strictly to a vegan diet, but sometimes eat cheese (on pizza) or fish (my husband is pesco-vegetarian for health reasons & he keeps tempting me with fish). I think in the past and in many old civilizations they would probably only eat meat once or twice a week. I think our main problem is over-eating. I plead guilty & need to reduce for health and environmental reasons.

 

[FaithBuild18]

You may be right about “cure” v. “prevention,” but I had a severe gall badder problem and by simply going on the 2/3 raw produce, vegan diet the problem went away. I suppose it wasn’t cured, bec it came back a year latter, and I had to go back on that diet again for about a month.

Also scientists have actually found some curative elements in some foods and plants, and many of our pharmaceuticals originally came from plants and are now synthetically made. But again, it is probably that they help the body fight off the disease rather than actually cure it the way surgery would cut it out. OTOH, surgery puts lots of stress on the body and works against the body helping to fight the disease (we lost our brother-in-law last year due to complications after an extremely successful surgery). I think a good balance of mainstream medicine & treatments, dietary, and herbal supplements may be good in many cases.

I actually found a better cure/prevention for my interstitial cystitis on-line – the OTC herbal-based medicine was developed by a urologist, and the diet works very well (there were several on-line diets and by trial and error I found the one that works the best, including herbal teas like peppermint and chamomile (who knew?)). My doctor had only given me pills the year before when I first got it (which did work to some extent) and no idea at all about a diet, but bec my pills had run out & I didn’t want to wait 5 hours in my drs office just to get another prescription…which then worked out of the best for me.

RE B12, I believe alfalfa and perhaps some other plant foods and herbs are high in B12.

I myself do not stick strictly to a vegan diet, but sometimes eat cheese (on pizza) or fish (my husband is pesco-vegetarian for health reasons & he keeps tempting me with fish). I think in the past and in many old civilizations they would probably only eat meat once or twice a week. ** I think our main problem is over-eating**. I plead guilty & need to reduce for health and environmental reasons.

Haha this is also very true!

 

[FaithBuild18]

On B12, I suppose I myself am not an expert, but in pursuit of my biochemistry degree my professor hammered into our heads that B12 is only obtained by animal products. Of course he can be wrong, but in his position I would hope he knows more than wikipedia does (for the record I haven’t checked what wikipedia says ha).

It is also worth noting that the synthetic variant of B12 that you obtain through supplements is NOT chemically identical to the naturally occuring B12. The centrally coordinated cobalt has been replaced by cyanide. I don’t believe there is much data supporting any sort of catastrophic effect of the synthetic B12, but as a naturalist of sorts it would probably be wise to avoid synthetic B12.

And again, I myself am not an expert on nutrition. Though my pursuits are dentistry, I know a lot about metabolism and bio-organic compounds from my undergraduate degree. My nutritional background has not YET been perfectly formed though but I imagine at some point (soon) in dental school it will be a VERY important topic. I will come back to this topic then! Ha.

 

[lynnvinc]

Lynnvinc - I agree that many people just don’t seem to care, and it is so frustrating. I was called the “recycling queen” in my office …

The first insult to me came as a joke in the early 90s – my neighbor (member of my parish) showed me a cartoon about a girl telling another girl that the environment is her religion – my neighbor was laughing but I wasn’t.

And another neighbor also in our parish – after I had talked about electric vehicles back in the early 90s, and how they could reduce our ICE emissions & help save lives – she said, “Where is God in this?” I had to carefully explain again that by reducing our harm and killing of people we are pleasing God, and that all my environmentalism is for doing God’s will (reducing harm). I don’t think it really sank in and I don’t think she got it, even tho we had been working together on the anti-abortion efforts and she clearly understood that reducing the killing babies was God’s will and part of our duty.

Then later in recent decades came accusations of environmentalists being earth worshippers, etc. I don’t know of any environmentalists who are earth-worshippers and I’m worried about the slander they are engaged in. I have always been a Christian and never worshipped the earth, tho I appreciate all the many and various blessings God has granted us, and think it is wrong to harm people whatever way we may be engaged in harming.

 

[lynnvinc]

No way am I reducing meat. Period. But locally grown and organic foods are a good thing, and they taste way better too.

That’s fine. The idea is to have a huge list of things we can do – say 1000 things – then pick the one you can and/or want to do.

We had to reduce our red meat consumption way down some 30 years ago due to my husband’s heart issues, and we basically became pesco (fish) vegetarians, only occasionally eating beef and pork. I went back and forth with vegetarianism. It’s very hard bec meat tastes so good, as does all the food my husband cooks (veg & non-veg). I wanted to try fasting as the women do in India (many do abstinance/fasting one day a week for the spiritual benefit of their families – both Hindus and Christians) & as soon as I thought about fasting, I got very hungry and just couldn’t do it. My mother-in-law (a very good Catholic) used to chide me as an American for not doing righteous things like fasting. I told her we do have fasting in America, only we call it dieting We both got a big laugh out of that.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Actually, juicing and pureeing veggies/fruits is a better way to go (and that does require some energy, but perhaps not as much as cooking/canning). It helps to cure cancer and a number of other diseases – the raw, vegan diet. I’ve seen in work for many people. So for health reasons, if not for environmental reasons, it is a good diet.

I think your livestock meat is probably good, since it is grass-fed and organic. I’m thinking the real risk in meat is the pesticides that bioaccumulate, and perhaps not the meat per se. Not sure if any studies bear that out, but there are studies that implicate meat-based diets in cancer and heart-disease.

Pesticides in grass-fed beef are probably lower than in most vegetables. Nobody sprays pesticides on pasture because it doesn’t pay to do it. Almost everybody sprays pesticides on vegetables.

I realize there are health food enthusiast sources who claim cancer cures with vegetables. Never have I seen it claimed by a reputable scientific source, except the claim that a certain amount of roughage is helpful.

But pureeing raw vegetables does not remove the cellulose sheathing.

 

[anilorak13ska]

Can anyone confirm the dishwasher topic one way or the other? I’ve heard it argued both ways, and I’m at a loss. We only run our dishwasher when we’ve had a party bc we then have enough dishes. Otherwise, we’d be running a half-empty dishwasher. What’s more, there seems to always be dishes that did not get all the food particles off via a dishwasher, and I think if you’re going to “pre rinse”, you might as well skip the dishwasher. I try to not have the water running if I’m washing utensils, let’s say, and I make an effort to lower the flow of the water from whatever I initially turned it on. I’ve tried washing dishes with just salt, but that proved not to be that great. I think I ran more water bc I took longer with the elbow grease, and the lack of foaming seemed to make my elbows more necessary

I was vegetarian for 2 years. I always had a desire, but not the discipline. Then when we got our second dog, I just couldn’t stand the idea of “eating their cousins”. It was very tricky bc I’m married to a man who thinks a perfect meal is meat on a stick! In the end, I realized that in the wild, animals are eaten by each other, so it wasn’t so much the eating of them that I opposed, but rather their torture in the process of raising them. So I weaned off vegetarianism by buying only organic/grass-fed/free range meat for a time, but the cost proved to be just too prohibitive.

I hate to admit it, but the only reason I can eat meat now is bc of the way it is packaged and how that helps me distance myself from where it really comes from. We recently went to a fresh food mart and I nearly threw up seeing whole fish with faces and all, and live crabs just waiting for their number to be called.

My latest idea is to not eat animals that are by nature vegetarian, since if we’d meet in the wild, they wouldn’t eat me, so why should I eat them? Though other than hippos, I’m not sure what other animals I should be avoiding yet.

 

[FaithBuild18]

I admit I have grown on this issue.

But can we please not refer to ourselves as environmentalists, and simply refer to ourselves as Catholic? It sums up our responsibilities in their entirety without making reference to a post-modern culturally trendy phenomena.

 

[FaithBuild18]

My latest idea is to not eat animals that are by nature vegetarian, since if we’d meet in the wild, they wouldn’t eat me, so why should I eat them? Though other than hippos, I’m not sure what other animals I should be avoiding yet.

Chances are if you were in a situation in which you met in the wild, you would probably be starving and struggling for survival. By all means, kill it and eat it. The Lord did not say to us to only eat that which eats vegetables, nor to only kill the beasts which threaten us. Far from it.

 

[anilorak13ska]

Chances are if you were in a situation in which you met in the wild, you would probably be starving and struggling for survival. By all means, kill it and eat it. The Lord did not say to us to only eat that which eats vegetables, nor to only kill the beasts which threaten us. Far from it.

I know, but He didn’t tell us to avoid deep fried fast food either, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good thing to do.

 

[austenbosten]

Simple…Capitalism:thumbsup:

 

[lynnvinc]

Simple…Capitalism:thumbsup:

There’s a great book just on that topic - NATURAL CAPITALISM by Paul Hawken and Amory & Hunter Lovins - natcap.org (site has some free chapters). It shows how businesses can reduce their energy use (and it concomitant pollution) by 25%, 50%, even 75% in some cases without lowering productivity, and saving them $$$$.

Most businesses still operate according to a world view that hasn’t changed since the start of the Industrial Revolution. Then, natural resources were abundant and labor was the limiting factor of production. But now there’s plenty of people, while natural capital – natural resources and the ecological systems that provide vital life-support services – is in decline and relatively expensive.

The next Industrial Revolution, like the first one, will be a response to changing patterns of scarcity. It will create upheaval, but more importantly, it will create opportunities. Business must adjust to these new realities.

Innovative companies are already doing just that. They’re profiting and gaining decisive competitive advantage – and their leaders and employees are feeling better about that they do, too. They’re in the vanguard of a new business model: natural capitalism.

Here’s an article they wrote: “A Road Map for Natural Capitalism” - salient.nohomepress.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/hbr-rminatcap.pdf

 

[lynnvinc]

I bungled my last post – here it is in its entirety:

Simple…Capitalism:thumbsup:

There’s a great book just on that topic - NATURAL CAPITALISM by Paul Hawken and Amory & Hunter Lovins - natcap.org (site has some free chapters). It’s about how businesses can save $$$ by doing the eco things, without lowering productivity.

Most businesses still operate according to a world view that hasn’t changed since the start of the Industrial Revolution. Then, natural resources were abundant and labor was the limiting factor of production. But now there’s plenty of people, while natural capital – natural resources and the ecological systems that provide vital life-support services – is in decline and relatively expensive.

The next Industrial Revolution, like the first one, will be a response to changing patterns of scarcity. It will create upheaval, but more importantly, it will create opportunities. Business must adjust to these new realities.

Innovative companies are already doing just that. They’re profiting and gaining decisive competitive advantage – and their leaders and employees are feeling better about that they do, too. They’re in the vanguard of a new business model: natural capitalism.

There is also a good article by the same authors: “A Road Map for Natural Capitalism” at salient.nohomepress.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/hbr-rminatcap.pdf

---

BTW, this can also apply to households. My husband and I have saved $1000s over the past 22 years while reducing our GHGs (mainly energy/resource use) by 60%+, without lowering our living standards, even increasing them.

It’s like if you seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, all (I mean ALL) things will be added unto you.

I guess, like many others, I didn’t really believe it – I thought we’d have to sacrifice – before we actually experienced it in reality for ourselves.

However, what I’ve found over the decades (to my shock, tho intellectually I’ve always known it) “there’s no such thing as an economic rational man (or woman).” There is some terrible blockage against doing eco-things that actually save money without lowering living standards. Maybe some Freudian death wish or something. Can’t figure it out for the life me (and I’m a social scientist and should be able to figure it out) Some of it is structural blockages – unless one builds their own home they can’t find a lot of passive solar homes on the market, but much of it is just simply resisting doing the right thing economically, environmentally, and spiritually…because ???

 

[lynnvinc]

There’s a great book just on that topic - NATURAL CAPITALISM by Paul Hawken and Amory & Hunter Lovins - natcap.org (site has some free chapters)…

BTW, this can also apply to households. My husband and I have saved $1000s over the past 22 years while reducing our GHGs (mainly energy/resource use) by 60%+, without lowering our living standards, even increasing them.

It’s like if you seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, all (I mean ALL) things will be added unto you.

I guess, like many others, I didn’t really believe it – I thought we’d have to sacrifice – before we actually experienced it in reality for ourselves.

However, what I’ve found over the decades (to my shock, tho intellectually I’ve always known it) “there’s no such thing as an economic rational man (or woman).” There is some terrible blockage against doing eco-things that actually save money without lowering living standards. Maybe some Freudian death wish or something. Can’t figure it out for the life me (and I’m a social scientist and should be able to figure it out) Some of it is structural blockages – unless one builds their own home they can’t find a lot of passive solar homes on the market, but much of it is just simply resisting doing the right thing economically, environmentally, and spiritually…because ???

 

[lynnvinc]

Pesticides in grass-fed beef are probably lower than in most vegetables. Nobody sprays pesticides on pasture because it doesn’t pay to do it. Almost everybody sprays pesticides on vegetables.

I realize there are health food enthusiast sources who claim cancer cures with vegetables. Never have I seen it claimed by a reputable scientific source, except the claim that a certain amount of roughage is helpful.

But pureeing raw vegetables does not remove the cellulose sheathing.

Anyway juicing works for me and people I know. Tho I don’t do much bec it is somewhat time consuming – you have clean the machine… But 1st sign of cancer or other serious disease and I’m on it…