What can we do??

[paul11b]

Ok so I am just a lowly lay person, I do not have a lot of money or any reason to be respected in the Church but I do feel like there is a problem in the Church. I watch a lot of realcatholictv.com and I recently read the book AA-1025 (which is a book that I feel every Catholic should read). I want something to be done about the way that we as Catholics practice our faith. We have pro- abortion and pro gay-marrige politicians that are not being excommunicated (that actually are allowed to receive the Eucharist), we have the Priests facing us during Mass, we’re playing our guitars and saxophones while singing protestant hymns at Mass like it was a 70’s rock concert, we never hear Gregorian chant, a Priest will certainly never talk about hell or sin, we have our Tabernacles off to the sides of our Churches, and we are receiving the Body of Our Lord in our Hands, while standing from a “Extraordinary Minister” as if it were just a piece of bread. We definitely hear a lot about the second collection though. I pray for the Church and our Clergy but something has to be done. The Latin Mass needs to be the Ordinary form of Mass, or they should celebrate the Novus Ordo Mass with the Priest facing the Blessed Sacrament, and the consecration should be in Latin (similar to the way Fr. Michael Rodriguez in Texas celebrates Novus Ordo). I wish there were more Latin Masses around, I feel like there should be at least one daily Latin Mass celebrated in every Diocese so that every Catholic could attend that Mass if they so choose. I know I am sort of ranting but I’m worried, I know that in the end the gates of hell will not prevail against Jesus’ Church but I feel like we should still put up a fight for Christ.

 

[Della]

IOW, dear brother, you’ve worked yourself up into a frenzy of fear and judgment and anger and all because some guy on the internet and some book of dubious value got your mind off worshiping Christ and onto things that are beyond your control. That is not the work of the Holy Spirit but comes from quite another quarter.

Am I therefore saying there are no abuses? No. But then there have always been abuses in the Church. Don’t let anyone fool you–the Church has never had perfect people in it doing everything perfectly. Do you really think everyone who was a Catholic before Vatican II never sinned or rebelled or abused his position or prayed the Mass poorly? Of course they did. The Church has an all too human side to it that will always be imperfect until Christ comes again.

So, what do we do? We focus on Christ and worshiping God. We do our part to be faithful and loving. We help our priests and let them do their ministries. And we get involved doing what God wants us to do and letting others do the same. Let your heart be filled with peace. The Church has survived worse than bad music and lazy liturgies before and will go on plowing through the seas of trouble and discontent and come into safe harbor in God’s good time. Just hang onto the rigging, pray, and let the Holy Father steer.

 

[IrishRush]

@Della -
Very well said!

 

[silicasandra]

IOW, dear brother, you’ve worked yourself up into a frenzy of fear and judgment and anger and all because some guy on the internet and some book of dubious value got your mind off worshiping Christ and onto things that are beyond your control. That is not the work of the Holy Spirit but comes from quite another quarter.

Am I therefore saying there are no abuses? No. But then there have always been abuses in the Church. Don’t let anyone fool you–the Church has never had perfect people in it doing everything perfectly. Do you really think everyone who was a Catholic before Vatican II never sinned or rebelled or abused his position or prayed the Mass poorly? Of course they did. The Church has an all too human side to it that will always be imperfect until Christ comes again.

So, what do we do? We focus on Christ and worshiping God. We do our part to be faithful and loving. We help our priests and let them do their ministries. And we get involved doing what God wants us to do and letting others do the same. Let your heart be filled with peace. The Church has survived worse than bad music and lazy liturgies before and will go on plowing through the seas of trouble and discontent and come into safe harbor in God’s good time. Just hang onto the rigging, pray, and let the Holy Father steer.

:clapping:

 

[DianaCC]

Paul, every single complaint you listed is a bishop’s problem, not a layman’s. What can we do? Make lots and lots of Catholic babies and educate them carefully. Because in a few short decades some of them will become bishops and straighten everything out.

 

[St_Francis]

The most important thing we can do is to become more holy ourselves and to pray for our priests.

*A Prayer for Priests

Keep them, I pray Thee, dearest Lord,
*************** Keep them, for they are Thine –
Thy priests whose lives burn out before
*************** Thy consecrated shrine.
Keep them, for they are in the world,
*************** Though from the world apart;
When earthly pleasures tempt, allure –
*************** Shelter them in Thy heart.
Keep them, and comfort them in hours
*************** Of loneliness and pain,
When all their life of sacrifice
*************** For souls seems but in vain.
Keep them, and O remember, Lord,
*************** They have no one but Thee,
Yet they have only human hearts,
*************** With human frailty.
Keep them as spotless as the Host,
*************** That daily they caress;
Their every thought and word and deed,
*************** Deign, dearest Lord, to bless.

 

[St_Francis]

PS sorry about all those astericks…

 

[dmorgan]

We have been here before Paul:
atgsociety.com/2010/02/against-the-world-the-legacy-of-saint-athanasius/

Quote from +Bishop Fulton Sheen:
**“Who is going to save our Church? Not our Bishops, not our priests and religious. It is up to the people. You have the minds, the eyes, the ears to save the Church. Your mission is to see that your priests act like priests, your bishops like bishops and your religious act like religious” **

As others have already said, Pray!

Pax Christi

 

[wisdomseeker]

Ok so I am just a lowly lay person, I do not have a lot of money or any reason to be respected in the Church but I do feel like there is a problem in the Church. I watch a lot of realcatholictv.com and I recently read the book AA-1025 (which is a book that I feel every Catholic should read). I want something to be done about the way that we as Catholics practice our faith. We have pro- abortion and pro gay-marrige politicians that are not being excommunicated (that actually are allowed to receive the Eucharist), we have the Priests facing us during Mass, we’re playing our guitars and saxophones while singing protestant hymns at Mass like it was a 70’s rock concert, we never hear Gregorian chant, a Priest will certainly never talk about hell or sin, we have our Tabernacles off to the sides of our Churches, and we are receiving the Body of Our Lord in our Hands, while standing from a “Extraordinary Minister” as if it were just a piece of bread. We definitely hear a lot about the second collection though. I pray for the Church and our Clergy but something has to be done. The Latin Mass needs to be the Ordinary form of Mass, or they should celebrate the Novus Ordo Mass with the Priest facing the Blessed Sacrament, and the consecration should be in Latin (similar to the way Fr. Michael Rodriguez in Texas celebrates Novus Ordo). I wish there were more Latin Masses around, I feel like there should be at least one daily Latin Mass celebrated in every Diocese so that every Catholic could attend that Mass if they so choose. I know I am sort of ranting but I’m worried, I know that in the end the gates of hell will not prevail against Jesus’ Church but I feel like we should still put up a fight for Christ.

Agree. Just do what is right before God and He will take of the rest. We see that the Israelites went through the same thing in the past. Trust in Jesus, it is His Church and not ours like so many today call it ours. No one is going to get away with what they are doing to His Church. Trust in Him and Him alone.

 

[paul11b]

IOW, dear brother, you’ve worked yourself up into a frenzy of fear and judgment and anger and all because some guy on the internet and some book of dubious value got your mind off worshiping Christ and onto things that are beyond your control. That is not the work of the Holy Spirit but comes from quite another quarter.

Am I therefore saying there are no abuses? No. But then there have always been abuses in the Church. Don’t let anyone fool you–the Church has never had perfect people in it doing everything perfectly. Do you really think everyone who was a Catholic before Vatican II never sinned or rebelled or abused his position or prayed the Mass poorly? Of course they did. The Church has an all too human side to it that will always be imperfect until Christ comes again.

So, what do we do? We focus on Christ and worshiping God. We do our part to be faithful and loving. We help our priests and let them do their ministries. And we get involved doing what God wants us to do and letting others do the same. Let your heart be filled with peace. The Church has survived worse than bad music and lazy liturgies before and will go on plowing through the seas of trouble and discontent and come into safe harbor in God’s good time. Just hang onto the rigging, pray, and let the Holy Father steer.

I’m really not trying to be Judgmental. I just call it as I see it. Michael Voris (from realcatholictv.com) makes a lot of good points on his internet show, and AA-1025 is a very good book that points out some things that are wrong with the Church. I agree that there have always probably been bad people in the Church but it cannot be denied that the people of this day and age are much more liberal. Society in general pushes a lot more evil into the minds of people than it did 50 years ago. It also cannot be denied that the Traditional Latin Mass is much more devout and solemn than the Novus Ordo Mass. The Latin Mass also emphasizes the Sacrifice of Mass more than the Novus Ordo Mass does. I am not saying that Priests are bad, or that Mass in English is bad, but I’m saying that there is something wrong with the Church today. I am a young man and I never knew anything but the Novus Ordo Mass until I studied my Faith on my own. I went to 12 years of Catholic schools and I didn’t really know anything about my faith until I studied it on my own as an adult. It is undeniable that Catholics are being poorly catechized and that Catholics are being taught very liberal, protestant-like teachings. I know this for a fact because I was taught this way in Catholic schools and my wife was taught this way in RCIA. Just to be clear I do not believe that anyone should separate from the Catholic Church, so I think that organizations like the SSPX are going about it the wrong way, although they have the right intentions. I think that the FSSP is a good Order and that they are trying to hold and keep the True Catholic Faith and teachings. I really wish there was an FSSP Parish near me but the closest one is 2 hours away. I’m just worried that my children will grow up and that the Faith will be so different from what I learned, (which is different from what my grandparents learned) that they will almost be protestant. I feel like the Mass that we go to today treats the Eucharist like it is just some “thing” as opposed to the Latin Mass where the Eucharist is treated like the Body of Christ. I mean in most Churches the Tabernacle is off to the side and the Priest’s chair is in the center, who are we there for? The lines for Communion are very long every week and the lines for Confession are very short.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

I watch a lot of realcatholictv.com and I recently read the book AA-1025 (which is a book that I feel every Catholic should read).

Let me begin by saying how great it is that you are looking to deepen your knowledge of the Catholic faith and your love for Christ’s Church.
However, I wouldn’t take AA-1025 seriously. Its widely taken as a fraud, even by traditionalists
As for realcatholic.tv, they are a well meaning group but these forums contain many posts pointing out inaccuracies or false assumptions in thier productions.

I want something to be done about the way that we as Catholics practice our faith.

We’d all like to see more reverence and devotion, but those things begin first with ourselves. Secondly, this isn’t a new problem. Church history is filled with periods of low Mass attendance, lack of reverence, and defection.

We have pro- abortion and pro gay-marrige politicians that are not being excommunicated (that actually are allowed to receive the Eucharist)

Once again, not a new problem. Immoral leaders of nations throughout history have received communion unworthily.
Excommunication, on the other hand, is not something a bishop can just decide on his own out of the blue. Excommunication is a canonical penalty for specific canonical crimes and there is a process that must be followed. Its not a simple issue.

we have the Priests facing us during Mass

That is something the Ordinary Form of the Church has allowed.

we’re playing our guitars and saxophones while singing protestant hymns at Mass like it was a 70’s rock concert, we never hear Gregorian chant

You have an excellent point here. Music in many parishes needs to be brought up to speed with the Church’s liturgical documents.

a Priest will certainly never talk about hell or sin

Never? I don’t think that’s correct.

we have our Tabernacles off to the sides of our Churches

There was a well meaning intention behind that design. Originally the concept was that there could be a reservation chapel for people to pray in that would be more intimate and also could allow for prayer in the real presence while the main area of the church was being used for another purpose. However it was not intended to become what many 70’s built churches turned it into. But the Church’s guidelines for church design have changed and changes are being made in that area when church design permits.

and we are receiving the Body of Our Lord in our Hands, while standing from a “Extraordinary Minister” as if it were just a piece of bread.

Some people perhaps take that attidude but most people believe in the real presence and understand they are receiving the Lord.

We definitely hear a lot about the second collection though.

Unless the 2nd collection is for the missions or a special cause people aren’t familiar with, I rarely hear the 2nd collection talked about other than a brief announcement.

The Latin Mass needs to be the Ordinary form of Mass

Its an interesting idea but not necessarily a practical one. Most priests today know little to no latin.

they should celebrate the Novus Ordo Mass with the Priest facing the Blessed Sacrament

We already do that. Technically when at the altar the priest is not facing the people, both the priest and the people are facing the Blessed Sacrament.

I know I am sort of ranting but I’m worried, I know that in the end the gates of hell will not prevail against Jesus’ Church but I feel like we should still put up a fight for Christ.

We fight through prayer and holiness. There will always be issues to address in the Church, what’s important is that we come together to solve them.

 

[ConstantineTG]

What can we do? We pray and trust in God.

 

[Paxvobis]

I’m sympathetic to you but I think that you’re confusing your liturgical preferences with the laws of the Church. You’re quite right to condemn liturgical abuse and rock band masses, but the OF Mass, Holy Communion in the hand, and the Priest facing the people at Mass are approved by the Church. They obviously aren’t your preference (neither are they mine), but understand that the people have a right to worship in that way if they choose too. Besides, the Holy Father has made options which are agreeable to traditionalists available and will continue to do so.

But after all is said and done, the kinds of issues you discuss here are not within the role of the laity. Our role is to go out into the world and preach the truths of the faith as well as to grow in holiness. If you encounter liturgical abuse, write or talk to the priest or to the Bishop, but don’t let it get so under your skin that you feel this way. Is there a problem in the Church? Yes. Pray for your leaders and exercise the rights you have as a lay Catholic. But don’t feel as if the Church has abandoned Catholicism.

(By the way, when it comes to pro-choice, pro-contraception, and pro-gay marriage politicians, nobody - including Mr. Voris - knows the state of their souls. They may be in a state of mortal sin, they may not be. But if they are, they are not allowed to partake in the Eucharist despite whether an excommunication letter has been issued. Just thought I’d clear that up.)

 

[Della]

I’m really not trying to be Judgmental. I just call it as I see it. Michael Voris (from realcatholictv.com) makes a lot of good points on his internet show, and AA-1025 is a very good book that points out some things that are wrong with the Church. I agree that there have always probably been bad people in the Church but it cannot be denied that the people of this day and age are much more liberal. Society in general pushes a lot more evil into the minds of people than it did 50 years ago.

As NewEnglandPriest has pointed out, the sources you cited are not reliable–they are meant to get people all worked up and bothered. That is not the work of the Holy Spirit. There is a big difference between acknowledging problems and inciting people to despair, which is all that they have left you feeling. It is up to us to return our culture to one of respect and decency. There have been many ages in every culture in which the hedonists have run amok, to the near destruction and sometimes ustter destruction of their societies, but it can be combated and the Church is trying to do that. It’s a complex issue but God is able to do anything and we can and should be praying and working for restoration of good morals.

It also cannot be denied that the Traditional Latin Mass is much more devout and solemn than the Novus Ordo Mass. The Latin Mass also emphasizes the Sacrifice of Mass more than the Novus Ordo Mass does. I am not saying that Priests are bad, or that Mass in English is bad, but I’m saying that there is something wrong with the Church today. I am a young man and I never knew anything but the Novus Ordo Mass until I studied my Faith on my own.

While the OF Mass is not always conducted as it should be, it is saying too much that the EF Mass is intriniscally better. Your understanding has probably been colored by attending poorly offered OF Masses, but both rites are the same Mass. So, you should rid yourself of your erroneous notion ASAP since it’s simply not true. My parish, for instance, celebrates the OF Mass very well indeed. It’s done with reverence, respect and in good order, as it should be. In a word, there is no essential difference between the two rites.

I went to 12 years of Catholic schools and I didn’t really know anything about my faith until I studied it on my own as an adult. It is undeniable that Catholics are being poorly catechized and that Catholics are being taught very liberal, protestant-like teachings. I know this for a fact because I was taught this way in Catholic schools and my wife was taught this way in RCIA. Just to be clear I do not believe that anyone should separate from the Catholic Church, so I think that organizations like the SSPX are going about it the wrong way, although they have the right intentions. I think that the FSSP is a good Order and that they are trying to hold and keep the True Catholic Faith and teachings. I really wish there was an FSSP Parish near me but the closest one is 2 hours away. I’m just worried that my children will grow up and that the Faith will be so different from what I learned, (which is different from what my grandparents learned) that they will almost be protestant. I feel like the Mass that we go to today treats the Eucharist like it is just some “thing” as opposed to the Latin Mass where the Eucharist is treated like the Body of Christ. I mean in most Churches the Tabernacle is off to the side and the Priest’s chair is in the center, who are we there for? The lines for Communion are very long every week and the lines for Confession are very short.

The first place children learn their faith is in the domestic Church, the family. If you want your potential children to be properly educated in the faith yours will be the primary responsibility. Too many parents in this last generation left it to Sunday school or CCD or sending their kids to Catholic schools, thinking they were being taught the things they were about the Faith. They were sadly misled in that regard, it’s true. But, that too can be turned around by people like you who know your faith and want to pass it on. You have to be the bulwark and defense of your family’s faith, not your parish. The parish should back you up and be a resource, but it is not the primary educator, as I stated above. And if you want your parish’s educational programs to be more faithful, then you should get involved and help it happen as you are able. Simply worrying about it does nothing to help anyone, including you.