What can women expect in Muslim heaven?

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Bubble said:
I don’t think Songs is a sex story, but I think it uses sex as an analogy for the mystical union between man and God.

The sexual union is but a shadow of the union we were made to enjoy.
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It’s the same with the 72 virgins deal, just a metaphor.
 
Ne_OrangeKnight said:
How does said metaphor function? I don’t see it, but I’m willing to entertain an explanation.

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight
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144,000 virgins (those not tainted with idolatry) from 12 Tribes of Israel, which Gentiles are grafted to through the New Covenant:

Revelation 14:4-5 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Quran 56:22-26 And (there are) fair ones with wide, lovely eyes, Like unto hidden pearls, Reward for what they used to do. There hear they no vain speaking nor recrimination Naught) but the saying: Peace, (and again) Peace.

Revelation 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

Revelation 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the** twelve tribes of the children of Israel**:

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Quran 56:27-40 And those on the right hand; what of those on the right hand? Among thornless lote-trees And clustered plantains, And spreading shade, And water gushing, And fruit in plenty Neither out of reach nor yet forbidden, And raised couches; Lo! We have created them a (new) creation And made them virgins, Lovers, friends, : For those on the right hand; A multitude of those of old And a multitude of those of later time.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Quran 56:41-44 And those on the left hand: What of those on the left hand? In scorching wind and scalding water And shadow of black smoke, Neither cool nor refreshing.

Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
 
Song of Songs was describing an actual marriage between Solomon and a woman. But, it goes beyond a mere love story between a man and his wife because it also can be taken to describe the mystical love between Christ and His Church. The sexual nuances of the story, however, are not something commonly found in Christian ideas about heaven.

It would be extremely rare for a Christian to want to go to heaven because he has the idea that it mean sex with all the virgins he wants to have sex with. Christians generally hope for much more.

In Islam, what I see among the men anyway, is hope for actual sex . . . slightly elevated to what we know on earth . . . but, involving the same basic mechanics. Even if that’s not what the original teaching Islam teaching is that it is symbolic sex–it seems as if most Muslim men’s take it literally and there hopes about heaven center around unlimited sex with women. Muslims heavenly reward is women. Christians heavenly reward is God Himself.

Christians hope for something beyond sex and union with women (or men). They hope to be united with Christ and His Church in a way that makes human sex seem blah. Sex is a teaser of the fulfilment waiting for us in heaven. The joy of human sex is an inadequate comparison to wait God has in store for us . . . but the imperfect union of the flesh is the closest we can come to understanding the perfect union between the soul and its Maker.

I’ve never hear Muslims speak of such things . . . but, they often talk about sex with virgins in heaven. Christians rarely compare sexual unions, but I often hear them speak of union with God in heaven.

If Muslims really believe that the sex with virgins in heaven is only symbolic for something greater . . . why do the majority of Muslims only talk about the something lesser (the sex) and not the something greater (the mystical union with God)?
 
Bubble said:
Song of Songs was describing an actual marriage between Solomon and a woman. But, it goes beyond a mere love story between a man and his wife because it also can be taken to describe the mystical love between Christ and His Church. The sexual nuances of the story, however, are not something commonly found in Christian ideas about heaven.

It would be extremely rare for a Christian to want to go to heaven because he has the idea that it mean sex with all the virgins he wants to have sex with. Christians generally hope for much more.

In Islam, what I see among the men anyway, is hope for actual sex . . . slightly elevated to what we know on earth . . . but, involving the same basic mechanics. Even if that’s not what the original teaching Islam teaching is that it is symbolic sex–it seems as if most Muslim men’s take it literally and there hopes about heaven center around unlimited sex with women. Muslims heavenly reward is women. Christians heavenly reward is God Himself.

Christians hope for something beyond sex and union with women (or men). They hope to be united with Christ and His Church in a way that makes human sex seem blah. Sex is a teaser of the fulfilment waiting for us in heaven. The joy of human sex is an inadequate comparison to wait God has in store for us . . . but the imperfect union of the flesh is the closest we can come to understanding the perfect union between the soul and its Maker.

I’ve never hear Muslims speak of such things . . . but, they often talk about sex with virgins in heaven. Christians rarely compare sexual unions, but I often hear them speak of union with God in heaven.

If Muslims really believe that the sex with virgins in heaven is only symbolic for something greater . . . why do the majority of Muslims only talk about the something lesser (the sex) and not the something greater (the mystical union with God)?
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And why do so many suicide bombers commit murder and suicide??

Vickie
 
Quoting Revelation doesn’t help you prove the point you’re trying to make . . . that sex with virgins is only a metaphor in the Quran. The male virgins in Revelation remain virgins. The virgins in the Quran are female, they say “peace”, but go on to become “rewards” and mates to the men . . . so, they don’t stay virgins for long. The Quran, even the chapter you are referring to, speaks of men having women companions in heaven–referring to them as virgins and mates. But, you’re saying that this is a metaphor for something else . . . and that the Islam doesn’t teach its followers that men in heaven are rewarded with virgins and sex? If so, what does it really mean?

Rewarded with virgins?

isna.com/library/quran/quran_e/55.html

Rewarded with youthful servants (even boys)?

isna.com/library/quran/quran_e/56.html
 
There is really no such thing as a “Muslim heaven” per se.

There is only one Paradise and only one Hell to be shared between all of humankind (in a disproportionate manner), whether they be Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, atheists, agnostics and others.

In terms of rewarding his good employees and weeding out the bad ones, God is an equal opportunity employer.
 
hamba2han said:
There is really no such thing as a “Muslim heaven” per se.

There is only one Paradise and only one Hell to be shared between all of humankind (in a disproportionate manner), whether they be Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, atheists, agnostics and others.

In terms of rewarding his good employees and weeding out the bad ones, God is an equal opportunity employer.
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Acceptable, Hamba, but if men are rewarded with Virgins and servents, what about women in Islam? Christians do not understand paradise in this way. Please explain to us according to Islam, what a rightous woman can expect.
 
meedo said:
. Men can have multiple wives. Women would have one husband. A husband for a lady in heaven is very sufficient for her. If its her pleasure that he dances erotically for her then he will.

:banghead:

LOL. Am i the only one who smells a human’s mind behind all this? a man is very sufficient but a woman is not? yet at the same same they are sufficient to each others yet man can still have as many as he wants and the woman no?
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inJESUS said:
meedo;3196968:
. Men can have multiple wives. Women would have one husband. A husband for a lady in heaven is very sufficient for her
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. If its her pleasure that he dances erotically for her then he will.

:banghead:

LOL. Am i the only one who smells a human’s mind behind all this? a man is very sufficient but a woman is not? yet at the same same they are sufficient to each others yet man can still have as many as he wants and the woman no?

Yes, InJesus, there’s a very human mind behind everything to do with Islam.

Vickie
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Bubble said:
Quoting Revelation doesn’t help you prove the point you’re trying to make . . . that sex with virgins is only a metaphor in the Quran. The male virgins in Revelation remain virgins. The virgins in the Quran are female, they say “peace”, but go on to become “rewards” and mates to the men . . . so, they don’t stay virgins for long. The Quran, even the chapter you are referring to, speaks of men having women companions in heaven–referring to them as virgins and mates. But, you’re saying that this is a metaphor for something else . . . and that the Islam doesn’t teach its followers that men in heaven are rewarded with virgins and sex? If so, what does it really mean?
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Sure it does.

Virgins in Revelation are described as being taken from men, and also as the Lamb’s Bride having a female quality. Revelation isn’t referring to literal virgins, people who have not had sex, but those who haven’t corrupted themselves with idolatry and other gods.

Same with the Quran, it is clearly describing features of Heaven as shown in Revelation. Virgins are pure of Israel, like pearls which are also the gates of the 12 Tribes of Israel leading to New Jerusalem, with fruits for healing the nations.

Then there is Hell with the smoke of those tormented rising forever.
 
Rev 14

3
And they sung as it were a new canticle, before the throne, and before the four living creatures, and the ancients; and no man could say the canticle, but those hundred forty-four thousand, who were purchased from the earth. 4 These are they who were not defiled with women: for they are virgins. These follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, the firstfruits to God and to the Lamb: 5 And in their mouth there was found no lie; for they are without spot before the throne of God.
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This says nothing about virgins being those who who are not with idolatry and other gods. It specificially says that these men are virgins because they were not defiled by women.
 
Bubble said:
Rev 14

3

This says nothing about virgins being those who who are not with idolatry and other gods. It specificially says that these men are virgins because they were not defiled by women.
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It also talks of whores riding on beasts and dragons but they are symbolic of other things.

1 Kings 11:4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.
 
I still want to know what paradise is like for a woman. I also want to know, if this is literal, men get a bunch of women and women only get one man. Personally, more than one woman is too many to put up with 😉
 
ralphinal said:
I still want to know what paradise is like for a woman. I also want to know, if this is literal, men get a bunch of women and women only get one man. Personally, more than one woman is too many to put up with 😉
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:rotfl: :rotfl:
 
ralphinal said:
I still want to know what paradise is like for a woman. I also want to know, if this is literal, men get a bunch of women and women only get one man. Personally, more than one woman is too many to put up with 😉
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Then maybe paradise for women is getting to outnumber men 72 to 1.
 
You should think of it this way folks:

Paradise is NOT being sent to Hell.

And Hell is… well… being sent to the Hell-fire.

The point here is that Muslims and non-Muslims alike should really not be spending so much time wondering and speculating about what is in “Muslim heaven”, when Islam teaches that 999 out of every 1000 children of Adam (pbuh) will be entering the Hell-fire.
 
hamba2han said:
You should think of it this way folks:

Paradise is NOT being sent to Hell.

And Hell is… well… being sent to the Hell-fire.

The point here is that Muslims and non-Muslims alike should really not be spending so much time wondering and speculating about what is in “Muslim heaven”, when Islam teaches that 999 out of every 1000 children of Adam (pbuh) will be entering the Hell-fire.
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alright. This makes sense to me. My question is if the techings of Islam have similar imagery for woman as they do for men…

I understand your post. It is one of the most clear explinations I’ve seen for what paradise is. We just want to know if the images work both ways.

To western eyes, Islam is very male focused. In many Muslims states, rightly or wrongly, women have few rights. I cannot say if this is a part of the faith or not. If images of paradise are more for men than women, why should we assume that the faith of Islam is not at best biased against women and at worse mysoginistic?
 
meedo said:
In Islam, Heaven is the perfection of human happiness. Without an atom of human sadness or distress. it includes all sorts of pleasures . It is rid of all evil , envy and stress.

The most pleasurable thing in heaven is to see Gods Face.

The marital life in heaven is arranged more or less like God has arranged it on earth. Men can have multiple wives. Women would have one husband , the most righteous of which she has married on earth. a mans wife on earth is in heaven is the most beautiful lady he can set his eye on. A husband for a lady in heaven is very sufficient for her. If its her pleasure that he dances erotically for her then he will.

Heaven in islam doesnt have envy, every bieng is feeling happiness and contentement with what he has . a man marrid to one lady is as happy as a man married to many. A lady married to one man would be as happy as if she had relationship with many.

In heaven you have a life, you have prayers, you have fun and you haev spirituality. nothing cancells teh other.

salam

Meedo
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If it’s all arranged like on earth, do women have less rights than men and still feel happy?
 
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