What Cardinal Ottaviani said about the New Mass in 1969

MrS · Dec 4, 2004

Franciscum:

Davis is a polemicist, not a serious journalist. Always consider the source…

I will consider the source …of this post.

MrS · Dec 4, 2004

Franciscum:

To even suggest the Novus Ordo Mass is “dumbed down” in comparison to the Tridentine Mass is to show abject ignorance of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and indeed, the Catholic Church.

I thank you for your comments… and again consider the source.

So let me re-phrase… I think the NO has been “protestanted down”

MrS · Dec 4, 2004

RSiscoe:

Judging by youR irritation, you must have read some of his criticle study of the New Mass. Unable to refute the truth of it, you call him prideful and arrogant. He was not placing his pride and arrogance ahead of the Church, as you claim; He was doing his job of trying to protect the faith. He was, afterall, in charge of the Holy Office under three Popes, and it was his responsibility to protect the Church from errors. It was his job to speak out if he saw a problem, and he did.

I WISH WE HAD A FEW PRELATES TODAY THAT HAD HALF THE COURAGE OF CARDINAL OTTAVIANI - HALF!

AMEN

misericordie · Dec 4, 2004

MrS:

I will consider the source …of this post.

UNA VOCE KNOXVILLE DIOCESE

Indult Mass

http://www.korrnet.org/uvknox/card5a.jpg
The next Tridentine Mass will be December 5 at 5:00 p.m. Confessions will start at 4:30 p.m.
Mass in January will be on January 16, the third Sunday. Bring a friend and invite your fellow parishoners to the Mass.

Click here for the Propers for this Mass.

Transcripts of the sermons can be found at sermons.

Beautiful photos of the Palm Sunday Mass and blessing of the palms can be seen at: knoxlatinmass.net/gallery/dialup/dialup.htm. Our thanks go to Roy Ehman, who took the photographs and to Henry Edwards, on whose web site they are posted.

For more information, contact Fr. Vann Johnston at the chancery (865-584-3307); Una Voce Knoxville director Bob Bobic (865-689-8891); or the e-mail address listed below.

Una Voce Knoxville expresses its deep appreciation to Fr. Vann Johnston for all his help and moral support in our drive for the indult. Our thanks go to Fr. McGinnity for his excellent assistance in making the Mass the success it was. He arranged the church to accommodate the Mass in an outstanding way. Our thanks go to the choir and Kitty Cross, the organist, for providing the moving and most appropriate music.

Our most grateful thanks go to Our Lady, without whose help nothing is accomplished.

DIRECTIONS TO ST. STEPHEN

St. Stephen Catholic Church
7111 Lee Hwy
Chattanooga, TN 37421

Take I-40 west from Knoxville
Follow I-75 southwest toward Chattanooga
After 77 miles, take Exit 7 onto US-11 (Lee Hwy)
Continue less than 2 miles southwest on US-11 to church.

http://www.korrnet.org/uvknox/StStephen.jpg

Link to interactive map.

Return to Una Voce Knoxville .

To send us e-mail click here .

MrS · Dec 4, 2004

Thanks a lot… wish I was in Knoxville :yup:

misericordie · Dec 4, 2004

misericordie said:
UNA VOCE KNOXVILLE DIOCESE

Indult Mass

http://www.korrnet.org/uvknox/card5a.jpg
The next Tridentine Mass will be December 5 at 5:00 p.m. Confessions will start at 4:30 p.m.
Mass in January will be on January 16, the third Sunday. Bring a friend and invite your fellow parishoners to the Mass.

Click here for the Propers for this Mass.

Transcripts of the sermons can be found at sermons.

Beautiful photos of the Palm Sunday Mass and blessing of the palms can be seen at: knoxlatinmass.net/gallery/dialup/dialup.htm. Our thanks go to Roy Ehman, who took the photographs and to Henry Edwards, on whose web site they are posted.

For more information, contact Fr. Vann Johnston at the chancery (865-584-3307); Una Voce Knoxville director Bob Bobic (865-689-8891); or the e-mail address listed below.

Una Voce Knoxville expresses its deep appreciation to Fr. Vann Johnston for all his help and moral support in our drive for the indult. Our thanks go to Fr. McGinnity for his excellent assistance in making the Mass the success it was. He arranged the church to accommodate the Mass in an outstanding way. Our thanks go to the choir and Kitty Cross, the organist, for providing the moving and most appropriate music.

Our most grateful thanks go to Our Lady, without whose help nothing is accomplished.

DIRECTIONS TO ST. STEPHEN

St. Stephen Catholic Church
7111 Lee Hwy
Chattanooga, TN 37421

Take I-40 west from Knoxville
Follow I-75 southwest toward Chattanooga
After 77 miles, take Exit 7 onto US-11 (Lee Hwy)
Continue less than 2 miles southwest on US-11 to church.

http://www.korrnet.org/uvknox/StStephen.jpg

Link to interactive map.

Return to Una Voce Knoxville .

To send us e-mail click here .

SURE SEEMS LIKE THERE IS A WIDE GROwTH AND RESERGENCE OF THE MASS!!! Amen. smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_108.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_34.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_22.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_11.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_12.gif

katolik · Dec 4, 2004

Franciscum:

It was simply not up to Ottaviani to reject the new Mass whose prommulgation was immanent.

He got canned because he placed his pride and arrogance ahead of the Church. If he were still around, he would make a prime candidate for “maximum leader” of the SSPX.

Good riddance…

Good riddance to a Cardinal of the Holy Roman Church??? WOuld you say that about Mahony or Kasper?

katolik · Dec 4, 2004

MrS:

Thanks a lot… wish I was in Knoxville :yup:

Why don’t you drive to Detroit, to St.Josaphat’s or to St.Anne’s in Redford?

FrmrTrad · Dec 4, 2004

EddieArent:

Can anyone find a 1969 Missal online? We were discussing The Ottaviani Intervention on another e-mail list and I wanted to compare it to the 1962 Missal and what we have today. Thanks!

One website I have found helpful for liturgical information is www.catholicliturgy.com.

FrmrTrad · Dec 4, 2004

RSiscoe:

the Novus Ordo represents, both as a whole and in its details, a striking departure from the Catholic theology of the Mass as it was formulated in Session XXII of the Council of Trent.

After the rite was finalized he affirmed its orthodoxy.

The “canons” of the rite definitively fixed at that time provided an insurmountable barrier to any heresy directed against the integrity of the Mystery.

There is no such thing as an insurmountable barrier in word or canon. Anyone, at any time, may disbelieve.

The pastoral reasons adduced to support such a grave break with tradition, even if such reasons could be regarded as holding good in the face of doctrinal considerations, do not seem to us sufficient.

Yet others thought the pastoral needs were present.

The innovations in the Novus Ordo … [etc.] … that truths which have always been believed by the Christian people, can be changed

No truths have been changed, nor does the rite mis-state any truths.

Recent reforms have amply demonstrated that fresh changes in the liturgy could lead to nothing but complete bewilderment on the part of the faithful who are already showing signs of restiveness and of an indubitable lessening of faith.

This is interpretive, and his opinion (a) reflects a need for a new pastoral approach, and (b) does not reflect on the orthodoxy of the Pauline rite, which Card. Ottaviani affirmed subsequently.

The Ottaviani “Intervention” is a comment on a draft of a pre-release rite. To circulate his comments now is akin to circulating parchments by Iconoclasts written prior to Nicea, arguing from those parchments that icons are idolatrous after all.

Franciscum · Dec 5, 2004

MrS:

I thank you for your comments… and again consider the source.

So let me re-phrase… I think the NO has been “protestanted down”

Thankfully your opinion means absolutely nothing with respect to the Church.

Franciscum · Dec 5, 2004

katolik:

Good riddance to a Cardinal of the Holy Roman Church??? WOuld you say that about Mahony or Kasper?

What does Mahony have to do with this? Is he on your mind that often?

Franciscum · Dec 5, 2004

misericordie:

Wow, it seems you already formulated DOCTRINE on this issue: APART from what the OFFICIAL position of the Church is: See: POPE JOHN PAUL II: “Motu Propio Ecclesia Dei” document of 1988. Funny how you seem to brush to the side (in a misguided false perception) what the MAJORITY of catholics are realizing and flocking in masses to: the Latin Tridentine Mass. The only advice I could give you, let go of the 1970’s and get with the PRESNT and LATEST VATICAN dictates, not PERSONAL opinion.
I also notice: your name is Franciscus: let me guess: Franciscan?? Well, no surprise from an order that has become very liberal and into liberation theology: one of your own: “Fr” Leonardo Boff? FRANCISCANS YES: Friars of the Renewal, Franciscans of the Immaculata, and Mother Angelica’s Friars.
PLEASE: stop trying to convince all that there is no longer ANY value to the Tridentine Mass: all are smarter than that: smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_17_3.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_17_7.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_28_1.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_28_2.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_115v.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_210.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_200.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_37.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_22.gif

Go to www.dictionary.com and look-up “normative.” The Tridentine Mass is allowed as an indult.

The Tridentine Mass is no sliver bullet. Never will be, either…

Franciscum · Dec 5, 2004

I have an idea…

Maybe a box-car or two of “traditionalists” can go on pilgrammage to Area 51 in Nevada. This will of course require approval by the US Government. It might include a ride in a black helocopter.

Once there, maybe they would be fortunate to attend Mass, a Pontifical Tridentine High Mass of course. Maybe they would be lucky enough to find an ex-Opus Dei priest who matriculated over to the SSPX as celebrant. Elvis will lead the choir as a visiting Baptist soloist.

With any luck, someone will remember to bring the special chalice and paten that was manufactured in Waco, Texas and consecrated by Marcel Lefebvre prior to his death.

All of the intercessions could go to the respose of the soul of the former Cardinal Ottaviani. The Mass could be dedicated to finding out the truth about the “Ottaviani Intervention.”

The pilgrammage could be covered by the Star and the National Enquirer…

RSiscoe · Dec 5, 2004

Franciscum,

I am wondering what your thoughts are on a few things.

Do you know how, in the old Mass, certain prayers were said very softly in a low tone, with the congregation being ubable to hear them? Do you think that was good, or bad?
Also curious if you think the Mass should be said only in the vernacular?
What do you think about a Mass where the Priest alone received communion?
And since you seem so against the Old Mass, do you think it contained any errors and needed to be abrogated?
One last question: Do you consider the Mass a sacrifice, or merely “praise and thanksgiving”?

Looking forward to your answer.

Stu · Dec 5, 2004

Franciscum:

I have an idea…

Maybe a box-car or two of “traditionalists” can go on pilgrammage to Area 51 in Nevada. This will of course require approval by the US Government. It might include a ride in a black helocopter.

Once there, maybe they would be fortunate to attend Mass, a Pontifical Tridentine High Mass of course. Maybe they would be lucky enough to find an ex-Opus Dei priest who matriculated over to the SSPX as celebrant. Elvis will lead the choir as a visiting Baptist soloist.

With any luck, someone will remember to bring the special chalice and paten that was manufactured in Waco, Texas and consecrated by Marcel Lefebvre prior to his death.

All of the intercessions could go to the respose of the soul of the former Cardinal Ottaviani. The Mass could be dedicated to finding out the truth about the “Ottaviani Intervention.”

The pilgrammage could be covered by the Star and the National Enquirer…

Nice charity. Are you just trying to “win” an argument or help us all find the truth?

misericordie · Dec 5, 2004

Stu:

Nice charity. Are you just trying to “win” an argument or help us all find the truth?

misericordie · Dec 5, 2004

Cardinal George backs traditional liturgy
Versailles, Oct. 14, 2003 (CWNews.com)

Versailles, Oct. 14, 2003 (CWNews.com) - Cardinal Francis George of Chicago has given his clear support for the use of the Tridentine-rite liturgy.

In a preface written for a collection produced by the International Committee for Liturgical Studies (CIEL), Cardinal George has referred to the Missal of St. Pius V as “a precious source of liturgical understanding for all other rites,” and said that the pre-conciliar liturgy should be “better accepted.” The work by CIEL, a Versailles-based organization faithful to the traditional liturgy, was published in France.

misericordie · Dec 5, 2004

misericordie said:
Cardinal George backs traditional liturgy
Versailles, Oct. 14, 2003 (CWNews.com)

Versailles, Oct. 14, 2003 (CWNews.com) - Cardinal Francis George of Chicago has given his clear support for the use of the Tridentine-rite liturgy.

In a preface written for a collection produced by the International Committee for Liturgical Studies (CIEL), Cardinal George has referred to the Missal of St. Pius V as “a precious source of liturgical understanding for all other rites,” and said that the pre-conciliar liturgy should be “better accepted.” The work by CIEL, a Versailles-based organization faithful to the traditional liturgy, was published in France.

I am sure very thankful to the MOST influential Cardinal in the USA, and the MOST intellectual.

Bill_A · Dec 5, 2004

St Alphonses church in Baltimore celibrates Tridentine Mass.

The intention of the mass and Vatican II was to minister to the problems of Industry and capitolism…

It was a huge failure in that it promoted liberalism, homosexuality and sin.

What Cardinal Ottaviani said about the New Mass in 1969

MrS

Guest

MrS

Guest

MrS

Guest

misericordie

Guest

MrS

Guest

misericordie

Guest

katolik

Guest

katolik

Guest

FrmrTrad

Guest

FrmrTrad

Guest

Franciscum

Guest

Franciscum

Guest

Franciscum

Guest

Franciscum

Guest

RSiscoe

Guest

Stu

Guest

misericordie

Guest

misericordie

Guest

misericordie

Guest

Bill_A

Guest