What Changes Would You Make To The NO Mass ?

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I have always been a great proponent of the OF and EF being textually the same. Say the Ordinary Form facing or not facing the people, and say it in whatever langauge you like, so long as the translation in fitting, but keep all the prayers used in the 1962 missal same. There was absolutely no reason to change one word of the 1962 text in formulating the Pauline Mass. When Pope Benedict XVI talks about liturgical continuity and organic liturgical growth, most of us assume the discussion is about latin and orientation. Yes, these are factors, but the text is greater one. Apparently, the text of the mass was largely formulated by James of Jerusalem, a relation of Our Lord, and was added to and revised by St. Gregory the Great. The original text of Gregory was not changed that much in 1570 at Trent, and was changed even less in 1962. There was absolultely no reason to take out some prayers that are nearly 2000 years old in the 1970 missal, and can only be explained as the influence of Satan, who is deeply disgusted and harmed by the celebration of the Mass. Bring back the prayers at the foot of the altar, the last gospel, and the prayers after mass. And if we’re going to have three readings, make sure that the text surrounding the second reading is identical to that surrounding the first, so that the text can still full resemble the 1962 text.

That said, although I too support that we have to rebuild the Ordinary form from the bottom up using a group of Orthodox catholic theologians headed by the Pontiff himself, now is not the time. To be too abrupt would be to send liberals flying out of Catholic Churches, much the same way we sent traditionalists into schismatic groups in 1969. The Novus Ordo needs to be slowly changed to promote orthodoxy, and in a generation or two, when the Church as a whole is more orthodox and traditional, we can begin the great undertaking of reorganizing the celebration of Mass in the Church so that it might better reflect organic continuity.
 
Christ is not present at the NO Mass in that cracker… I go to a Ukrainian Catholic Divine Liturgy, where the priests are validly ordained and I am assured to not be committing an act of idolatry…
 
Christ is not present at the NO Mass in that cracker… I go to a Ukrainian Catholic Divine Liturgy, where the priests are validly ordained and I am assured to not be committing an act of idolatry…
And with that I’d move that the moderators ban this user.
 
I’d go a step farther and ask them to close this thread. Things are starting to get ugly…
 
Christ is not present at the NO Mass in that cracker… I go to a Ukrainian Catholic Divine Liturgy, where the priests are validly ordained and I am assured to not be committing an act of idolatry…
To say that , “Christ is not present in that cracker at the NO…” is just a hare’s breath away from heresy. Please think that one over; for the sake of your spiritual well-being.

True, the Church is going through a great crucible with the innovations of the NO and the virtual removal of The Latin Rite. But if we were to abandon the Church we would be allowing the Church to be taken over completely by forces that are adversarial to the Church.

Personnally, I do not “like” the way the NO is conducted with a surprise almost every week. My parish is not very distinguishable from a Lutheran church and the pastor never wears a vestment with a symbol such as a cross, chalice or other sign of Christ’s prominance.

Jesus said, “…the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it (Church).”

The “gates of Hell” certainly are vying to take over the Church…much of what we are seeing in the many scandals are a ploy to bring the Church down. Confusion is part of the equation also. But we have to hold fast because Christ said the Church will not fall…do we believe Him or do we not? The Holy Spirit remains despite the outrageous innovations.

__
Peace
 
To say that , “Christ is not present in that cracker at the NO…” is just a hare’s breath away from heresy. Please think that one over; for the sake of your spiritual well-being.

True, the Church is going through a great crucible with the innovations of the NO and the virtual removal of The Latin Rite. But if we were to abandon the Church we would be allowing the Church to be taken over completely by forces that are adversarial to the Church.

Personnally, I do not “like” the way the NO is conducted with a surprise almost every week. My parish is not very distinguishable from a Lutheran church and the pastor never wears a vestment with a symbol such as a cross, chalice or other sign of Christ’s prominance.

Jesus said, “…the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it (Church).”

The “gates of Hell” certainly are vying to take over the Church…much of what we are seeing in the many scandals are a ploy to bring the Church down. Confusion is part of the equation also. But we have to hold fast because Christ said the Church will not fall…do we believe Him or do we not? The Holy Spirit remains despite the outrageous innovations.

__
Peace
It’s less than a hare’s breath - the Council of Trent anathematises anyone who claims that any properly celebrated rite or ceremony proposed by the Church can lead to impiety, let alone invalid sacraments or idolatry!

Of course any rite can be invalid if celebrated improperly, and in the Middle Ages priests saying the TLM would often intentionally and entirely omit the words of consecration so as to avoid receiving the Eucharist in a state of sin.

Unless your priest celebrating the TLM or the DL is saying the Canon out loud you too can never be sure that they’re confecting a valid sacrament either. Then again, even if the words are correct the matter could be improper (and how would anyone really know most of the time?) or the intent could be absent.

Daisiegirl, please, seriously rethink your position if you wish to remain a faithful Catholic.
 
Very well put.

I might add, as an afterthought, to your waryness of the prayers said in quiet by a priest during the Offertory/Consecration…it could happen that a Mass is not licit if intentionally abused.

But then, I believe in a case like that we still receive Jesus but in a “SPIRITUAL COMMUNION.” I do believe He watches over us in cases like that. He did say, “…I will not leave you as orphans…”
 
It’s less than a hare’s breath - the Council of Trent anathematises anyone who claims that any properly celebrated rite or ceremony proposed by the Church can lead to impiety, let alone invalid sacraments or idolatry!
The Council of Trent also anathematized anyone who were to set up a new rite. Impiety is the least of the NO’s problems.
Canon XIII.—Si quis dixerit, receptos et approbates Ecclesiæ Catholicæ ritus, in solemni sacramentorum administratione adhiberi consuetos, aut contemni, aut sine peccato a ministris pro libito omitti, aut in **novos alios **per quemcumque ecclesiarum pastorem mutari posse: anathema sit.
Canon XIII.—If any one saith, that the received and approved rites of the Catholic Church, wont to be used in the solemn administration of the sacraments, may be contemned, or without sin be omitted at pleasure by the ministers, or be changed, by every pastor of the churches, into other new ones: let him be anathema.

I believe in a case like that we still receive Jesus but in a “SPIRITUAL COMMUNION.” I do believe He watches over us in cases like that.
Good point. The Council of Trent heavily encouraged Spiritual Communion.
 
The Council of Trent also anathematized anyone who were to set up a new rite. Impiety is the least of the NO’s problems.

Good point. The Council of Trent heavily encouraged Spiritual Communion.
Doesn’t apply. The TLM was never changed into another rite - it still stands and is still celebrated as it was. Nor was it (as our past two Popes have made abundantly clear) ever abrogated or forbidden or ‘contemned’ in any other way.

A new rite was proposed, true, and is the most commonly-used rite of the majority. That isn’t the same thing as changing or condemning the TLM rite.

More than that, it wasn’t mere pastors who on their own account made this decision or this change - but the Pope himself, and Bishops in union with him. They, as Trent itself said, are incapable of proposing any rite or ritual which leads to impiety let alone anathemas.

Next. 🙂
 
The Council of Trent also anathematized anyone who were to set up a new rite. Impiety is the least of the NO’s problems.
So every Pope since John XXIII is Anathema? So the gates of hell did prevail after all.
 
So every Pope since John XXIII is Anathema? So the gates of hell did prevail after all.
You can jump to your own conclusions. I didn’t write the Council of Trent documents. I merely point it out to those who are so intent on following all other doctrinal points of that council. Perhaps those Popes you refer to haven’t read the Council of Trent documents, I don’t know. But it seems that BXVI is head on, even refraining from calling it the new rite.
 
You can jump to your own conclusions. I didn’t write the Council of Trent documents. I merely point it out to those who are so intent on following all other doctrinal points of that council. Perhaps those Popes you refer to haven’t read the Council of Trent documents, I don’t know. But it seems that BXVI is head on, even refraining from calling it the new rite.
What other conclusion could one come to? You claim that anyone the changes the rite is anathema. These Popes support the Novus Ordo mass. The idea that the Popes haven’t read the Council of Trent documents is as ludicrous as the idea there are anathema. Are you a sedevantist?
 
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This thread is closed. Thanks to all who participated in the discussion.
 
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