What Church Is Most Biblical?

[AgnosTheist]

My spirit rejoices in God my savior."

She neither sin and was preserve by the grace of God.

There is not one verse in the Bible that Mary committed any sin.

a sinless fellow who needed a savior. thats a bit contradictory.

mary- sinless. wow thats too extreme. was she even human?

 

[dosdog]

a sinless fellow who needed a savior. thats a bit contradictory.

mary- sinless. wow thats too extreme. was she even human?

Jeremias 1 5 Before I formed thee in the bowels of thy mother, I knew thee: and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee,

 

[Mannyfit75]

I think someone has been jumping to too many conclusions- Mary sinned, there is no doubt about that…

“For as in Adam all die, so also Christ shall be made alive”

Everyone is affected by the choice Adam and Eve made in the Garden of Eden, they brought us ALL into sin, and since we then know sin, we then die because the wages of sin is death, Mary died didn’t she?

Jesus died. Does it make him a sinner? Nope. Mary accepted her death willingly to imitate her son. Though not all Catholic believe this, some of us Catholics believe (like me) Mary did died before she was assumed into heaven.

Mary didn’t sin. There is not one verse in the Bible showing Mary being disobedient. She is always the faithful handmaid of the Lord.

“Mary was spared from original sin by the direction intervention of God through the merits of Christ.”

That is not taught in the Bible, how do you get to that conclusion? Nowhere in the Bible does it say Mary was sinless, she isn’t God and therefore is subject to sin, every creature that is not pure perfection is subject to sin, Mary was not perfect, no earthly being is perfect.

 

[Mannyfit75]

She was perfected by the merits of her son Jesus Christ. By herself, she cannot do anything. For without God’s grace she is doomed like the rest of us if we remain unrepentant.

“Some are incapable of sin; for example, infants, the mentally retarded, the severely senile cannot sin”

Again, unbiblical teaching. You are teaching heresies.

Enoch and Elijah were taken into heaven because God so felt they deserved it- they both walked with God but it never says ANYONE but Christ was sinless! There is a single seat on the cover of the Ark of the Covenant which holds the Ten Commandments, and that single seat is there because only ONE person fulfilled the law, that was Jesus Christ, not Mary, not anyone else.

Heresy. Nope. On the contrary. I don’t think so. To know what sin is. You must know what it is. Any sin is any violation of God’s ten commandments. A person who have never received the Gospel nor heard of the Ten Commandments or of God, would be liable to judgement for breaking any of the ten commandments because he has never heard of it before.

My friend there is similar parallel between the Ark and Mary.

Consider this.

The Ark was made of purest gold. The Jews reverenced the Ark by celebrating its presence with venerations, vestments, and songs, including playing the harps, lyres, cymbals, and trumpets. In fact, the Ark was consider Holy that when Uzzah put his hand on the Ark to prevent it from tipping over during the journey, God killed Uzzah for touching it.

In the NT, the Scriptures make it clear the direct connection between the Ark of the Covenant and Mary. For example, the word “overshadow,” which the angel Gabriel used to describe Mary’s conception of Jesus, is the same word (in Greek, episkiasei) used to describe God’s glory cloud overshadowing the Ark of the Old Covenant. Mary’s was overshadowed by God’s shekinah (glory) and became the Holy of Holies of the New Covenant.

Luke also make specific comparision between Elizabeth’s greeting of Mary and David’s greeting of the Ark of the OT as describe in the book of Samuel.

In 2 Sam 6:2, David “arose and went” to bring out the Ark of the Covenant; in Luke 1:39, Mary “arose and went” to greet Elizabeth.

In 2 Sam 6:9, David says, “How can the ark of the Lord come to me?” and Luke 1:43, Elizabeth says, “And why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”

The Ark of the Covenant remains in the house for three months; in Luke 1:43, Mary remained in the house for three months.

In 2 Sam 6:16, David leaps for joy before the Ark, in Luke 1:41, John the baptist leaps for joy before Mary.

In the Book of Revelation, John also teaches Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant. When John received his Revelation, the Jews had not seen the Ark of the Old Covenant, their center of worship for six centuries (see 2 Mac 2:7). In Revelation 11:19, John says, “Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple.” The Jewish people would have been absolutely amazed at John’s discovery and would begged John to tell them more.

Instead, John ignored the detail of the old Ark and, in the very next verse, says, “And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with a moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.” (Rev 12:1). John ignored details of the old Ark and immediately describes the “woman clothed with the sun.” Why? Because John is emphazing that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant and that, like the Old Ark, she is worthy of veneration and praise. The woman, Mary has the moon under her feet and crowned with twelve stars, representing both the twelve apostles, and the twelve tribes of Israel (which symbolizes the Church). Just as the moon reflects the light of the sun, so Mary, with the moon under her feet, reflects the glory of the Sun of Justice, Jesus Christ (See Mal 4:2).

 

[AgnosTheist]

Jeremias 1 5 Before I formed thee in the bowels of thy mother, I knew thee: and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee,

that speaks nothing about the idea of remaining sinless for the rest of your life.

 

[Mannyfit75]

The Scripture provide other examples where God sanctified certain people in the womb to perform important spiritual tasks:

1. Of the prophet Jeremiah God said, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations. (Jer 1:5).
2. John the Baptist was consecrated in the womb when he leaped for joy before Mary and his mother Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
3. God also distinguished between Jacob and Esau in the wombs (Romans 9:9-12).
4. God likewise set apart Mary from the rest of His children at the moment of her conception for the greatest task ever performed by a human being ---- to bring forth to the world the Word of God made flesh. This is because as Job says, “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.” (Job 14:4).

This is a prophecy my friend. We know Jesus to be without any spot. He is often called the spotless Lamb. If Mary did in fact had sin, this would contract Job 14:4. God, the Father could not allow his only Son to be born of a sinful woman. Since Job made it very clear that nothing clean can come out things that is unclean. Just as God the Father is perfect, so too must Mary be perfect so the flesh of the Word of God may not unclean but clean.

Before the fall, Adam and Eve were made perfect. If you were God, would you not make your own mother perfect and spotless? I don’t know if any of you have taken art. I have. When I draw a woman I want her to be perfect. God would do the same with Mary. She is spotless and sinless because she was chosen by God the Father to be the Mother of God, Jesus Christ, Second Person of the Trinity.

 

[AgnosTheist]

She was perfected by the merits of her son Jesus Christ.

‘perfected’ implies a period of imperfection. a period of sinfulness.

 

[Mannyfit75]

that speaks nothing about the idea of remaining sinless for the rest of your life.

“Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.” (Job 14:4).

God is perfect. In the fullness of time, God entered time and space to save mankind from their sins. In doing so, he chosen Mary to be the Mother of His Only begotten son. SInce nothing unclean can bring for what is clean. Mary had to be clean. This is to fullfil the prophet Job own words which I quoted above.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Yes. How could she be worthy to be the Theotokos, and to bring Jesus into the world and have Him living in her home, but not be worthy to live with Him in the afterlife?

Many protestants don’t accept the council at Ephesus in 431 claiming Mary is the mother of God. They want to stick to the Heresy that Mary was merely the mother of the man Jesus. The psalm, The Queen sits at His right hand comes to mind everytime I think of Mary in Heaven.

 

[jmcrae]

Many protestants don’t accept the council at Ephesus in 431 claiming Mary is the mother of God. They want to stick to the Heresy that Mary was merely the mother of the man Jesus.

We got the Bible less than 30 years previously. Did the Church suddenly go apostate between the giving of the Bible and the Council of Ephesus, without anyone noticing?

The psalm, The Queen sits at His right hand comes to mind everytime I think of Mary in Heaven.

That is also a favourite of mine.

 

[AgnosTheist]

“Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.” (Job 14:4).

God is perfect. In the fullness of time, God entered time and space to save mankind from their sins. In doing so, he chosen Mary to be the Mother of His Only begotten son. SInce nothing unclean can bring for what is clean. Mary had to be clean. This is to fullfil the prophet Job own words which I quoted above.

by that logic, Mary’s parents have to be sinless too (for indeed how can a clean thing like mary come out of unclean parents). and the parents of her parents will have to be sinless, and that will trace backward all the way to adam & eve. all sinless.

and that verse was job’s opinion, not god’s. technically speaking pure can be extracted from the impure. iron taken from impure ores. sinful men becoming saints.

 

[qui_est_ce]

We got the Bible less than 30 years previously. Did the Church suddenly go apostate between the giving of the Bible and the Council of Ephesus, without anyone noticing?

Well, there are many theories…about 33,000 I believe

 

[qui_est_ce]

Well, there are many theories…about 33,000 I believe

Oh, I forgot, add Agnos

 

[Mannyfit75]

by that logic, Mary’s parents have to be sinless too (for indeed how can a clean thing like mary come out of unclean parents). and the parents of her parents will have to be sinless, and that will trace backward all the way to adam & eve. all sinless.

and that verse was job’s opinion, not god’s. technically speaking pure can be extracted from the impure. iron taken from impure ores. sinful men becoming saints.

Job is refer to the coming Messiah that since he is clean, he could not be born of a woman who is unclean. God therefore, made Mary immaculate…

 

[AgnosTheist]

Job is refer to the coming Messiah that since he is clean, he could not be born of a woman who is unclean. God therefore, made Mary immaculate…

The context was about Job defending himself from God’s judgement. Its like how can any person (who is impure) present themself as pure before God? That was his dilemma. If only God would just leave him alone.

its got nothing to do with jesus.

 

[Mannyfit75]

The context was about Job defending himself from God’s judgement. Its like how can any person (who is impure) present themself as pure before God? That was his dilemma. If only God would just leave him alone.

its got nothing to do with jesus.

It’s a prophecy. It does. End of discussion.

 

[AgnosTheist]

It’s a prophecy.

Job wasnt even a prophet.

 

[AgnosTheist]

It’s a prophecy

Job wasnt even a prophet.

 

[BrewMax]

by that logic, Mary’s parents have to be sinless too (for indeed how can a clean thing like mary come out of unclean parents). and the parents of her parents will have to be sinless, and that will trace backward all the way to adam & eve. all sinless.

and that verse was job’s opinion, not god’s. technically speaking pure can be extracted from the impure. iron taken from impure ores. sinful men becoming saints.

This is precisely what St. Thomas Aquinas said.