What Church Is Most Biblical?

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Seems to me you need an Alter to have an Alter Call

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Scriptural readings are quite germaine. It is done each and every time a Catholic Mass is said.
Of course, that is why I am curious if Manny is just speaking of altar calls.
Speaking in tongues…is a very questionable practice. Impossible to validate, and has no precedence to my knowledge in the Bible, other than the misquoted, or rather out of context interpretation of what occurred at the tower of Babel.
But of course Paul says not to forbid the practice of speaking in tongues.
Alter calls, there is really no precedence for them either.
Acts 2:41 indicates the gospel was preached and then 3000 thousand were added to the church that very day.
 
Seems to me you need an Alter to have an Alter Call

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Although you may disagree with their view of what constitutes an altar, and I am curious if this is just your private interpretation or if it is official Catholic doctrine to not call it an altar, they do consider it an altar. Regardless
 
Of course, that is why I am curious if Manny is just speaking of altar calls.

But of course Paul says not to forbid the practice of speaking in tongues.

Acts 2:41 indicates the gospel was preached and then 3000 thousand were added to the church that very day.
1 Corinthians 14:19 But in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may instruct others also; than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Seems to me you need an Alter to have an Alter Call

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1 Corinthians 14:19 But in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may instruct others also; than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Absolutely, Paul puts perameters on the practice, but it is in the Bible. One can disagree with the practice of modern Charismatics or pentecostals, but to suggest it is not in the Bible, if indeed anyone is, thus the clarification, is not accurate.
 
The real question that should be discussed is, “Which came first: the church or the Bible?”

Once you come up with the correct answer here, Baptists are out of the running.
 
Brian…what I am about to say is not meant in a personal nor in an insulting manner… Its merely an explanation coming from a life long Catholic in the autumn of his years…

My perception of an “altar call” is that it is not “biblical” in that it generally follows or is made during in a very emotional, or emotion charged atmosphere…which also contains hellfire and damnation preaching… I got “badgered” into going to church with some friends many years ago…and witnessed this firsthand. It ended up being a failed conversion attempt on their part to “save me”. :rolleyes:

From my perspective…and probably a perspective that many if not most Catholics would share and agree with… if you need an emotion charged appeal to get you up off your duff to accept God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit…and Salvation…then you are more than likely on a real short rope… High emotions are not a part of my belief system or faith. They are un-necessary. Emotion charged scenarios are often short-lived semi-epiphanies. I believe one of the most common phrases expressed after an altar call is “back-sliding”.

To me, and other Catholics…my wife included…you believe or you don’t. Its not a temporary condition. Its a permanent condition…with no emotions attached…

I hope that provides some “clarification”. 🙂
 
Brian…what I am about to say is not meant in a personal nor in an insulting manner… Its merely an explanation coming from a life long Catholic in the autumn of his years…

My perception of an “altar call” is that it is not “biblical” in that it generally follows or is made during in a very emotional, or emotion charged atmosphere…which also contains hellfire and damnation preaching… I got “badgered” into going to church with some friends many years ago…and witnessed this firsthand. It ended up being a failed conversion attempt on their part to “save me”. :rolleyes:

From my perspective…and probably a perspective that many if not most Catholics would share and agree with… if you need an emotion charged appeal to get you up off your duff to accept God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit…and Salvation…then you are more than likely on a real short rope… High emotions are not a part of my belief system or faith. They are un-necessary. Emotion charged scenarios are often short-lived semi-epiphanies. I believe one of the most common phrases expressed after an altar call is “back-sliding”.

To me, and other Catholics…my wife included…you believe or you don’t. Its not a temporary condition. Its a permanent condition…with no emotions attached…

I hope that provides some “clarification”. 🙂
Understood.
But it remains, there are examples in the Bible of people preaching the gospel and them becoming Christians…on the spot if you will. While one can argue the merits, justifiable merits, of a prolonged approach to obtaining membership in the church/ or a church, versus an instantaneous conversion, the instant variety is in the Bible.
 
I will add Rob that most of the preaching recorded in Acts IS very emotionally charged. I think you would agree. As far as hellfire and damnation, that of course comes straight from the mouth of Christ in Matthew’s gospel as well.
 
BrianH;2861342:
E. W. Kenyon, born in the 1860’s, began his spiritual life as a Methodist but eventually moved into Pentecostalism. He became immersed in Unitarian false teachings and combined these elements with those of Phineas Quimby’s mind science cults and New Thought theology. New Thought teaches that correct thinking and believing accompanied by positive confession has the power to change reality, health, wealth, or sickness. It also teaches the deity of man. Many of the phrases popularized by present-day prosperity preachers, such as “What I confess, I possess,” were originally coined by Kenyon. Thus, it was not charismaticism that spawned this new heresy - but it provided the soil in which it grew.
apprising.org/archives/2005/08/apprising_joel_1.html
glossolalia Many Christian evangelists encourage their audiences to engage in “speaking in tongues.” While engaged in this practice, performers (both preachers and worshipers) mumble gibberish which is believed by the faithful to be a secret prayer language understood only by God. The fact that each person mumbles differently matters not a whit. God, angels, and anointed ministers, we are told, are able to understand.

Technically, this psychological phenomenon is known as glossolalia. Early Methodists, Quakers, Shakers, and Mormons adopted it, then de-emphasized it. It fell into disuse until about 1830, when it reappeared in England among “females of excitable temperament,” Until recently, there was not much emphasis on it in Christianity but now the Pentecostal sects have revived it.

Non-Christian glossolalia predates the modern version considerably, being described in very ancient religions and known in primitive societies untouched by Christianity. It was known to Plato, who described it in use in his day: Greek and Roman oracles spoke in tongues. Virgil wrote, in the Aenead, Book Six, about a Roman Sibyl who babbled that way.
randi.org/encyclopedia/glossolalia.html

Randi…really 🙂
Anyway, these articles might be A TAD biased…you think…possibly…😉
 
I will add Rob that most of the preaching recorded in Acts IS very emotionally charged. I think you would agree. As far as hellfire and damnation, that of course comes straight from the mouth of Christ in Matthew’s gospel as well.
That may well be…but I think you missed my main point. 🙂
 
dosdog;2861365:
Randi…really 🙂
Anyway, these articles might be A TAD biased…you think…possibly…😉
John 6 54 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. 55 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.
 
That may well be…but I think you missed my main point. 🙂
I did not think so. I think your main point was to relay your personal experience and thoughts on problems with altar calls and such. My main point is that altar calls, instantaneous conversions, are scriptural.
I am curious as to what I said that would make you think I missed your point?
 
I did not think so. I think your main point was to relay your personal experience and thoughts on problems with altar calls and such. My main point is that altar calls, instantaneous conversions, are scriptural.
I am curious as to what I said that would make you think I missed your point?
Is that in “The Just Move My lips Handbook?”

Matthew 11 20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein were done the most of his miracles, for that they had not done penance.

2 Corinthians 12 21 Lest again, when I come, God humble me among you: and I mourn many of them that sinned before, and have not done penance for the uncleanness, and fornication, and lasciviousness, that they have committed.

Luke 10 13 Woe to thee, Corozain, woe to thee, Bethsaida. For if in Tyre and Sidon had been wrought the mighty works that have been wrought in you, they would have done penance long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgement, than for you. 15 And thou, Capharnaum, which art exalted unto heaven, thou shalt be thrust down to hell.

Sadly, some individuals misconstrue fundamental option in such a way there are no particular mortal sins. Instead, the one “mortal sin” which would take a soul to hell is for a person to willingly, knowingly reject God and His love entirely. Such a stance would reduce fundamental option to some psychological game, whereby a person says, “I love God. I do not reject God. My individual choices or particular actions do not affect my total being. Therefore, although I committed adultery, or murdered someone, or fornicated, or robbed the bank, (or committed any other mortal sin), God still loves me, I love God, and I think I am going to heaven.” Think again.
ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/MORTSIN.HTM

Antinomianism
The heretical doctrine that Christians are exempt from the obligations of moral law. The term first came into use at the Protestant Reformation, when it was employed by Martin Luther to designate the teachings of Johannes Agricola and his secretaries, who, pushing a mistaken and perverted interpretation of the Reformer’s doctrine of justification by faith alone to a far-reaching but logical conclusion, asserted that, as good works do not promote salvation, so neither do evil works hinder it; and, as all Christians are necessarily sanctified by their very vocation and profession, so as justified Christians, they are incapable of losing their spiritual holiness, justification, and final salvation by any act of disobedience to, or even by any direct violation of the law of God

In any case, it is generally understood that Antinomianism was professed by more than one of the Gnostic schools. Several passages of the New Testament writings are quoted in support of the contention that even as early as Apostolic times it was found necessary to single out and combat this heresy in its theoretical or dogmatic as well as in its grosser and practical form. The indignant words of St. Paul in his Epistles to the Romans and to the Ephesians (Romans 3:8, 31; 6:1; Ephesians 5:6), as well as those of St. Peter, the Second Epistle (2 Peter 2:18, 19), seem to lend direct evidence in favour of this view. Forced into a somewhat doubtful prominence by the “slanderers” against whom the Apostle found it necessary to warn the faithful, persisting spasmodically in several of the Gnostic bodies, and possibly also colouring some of the tenets of the Abigenses, Antinomianism reappeared definitely, as a variant of the Protestant doctrine of faith, early in the history of the German Reformation
newadvent.org/cathen/01564b.htm

The Sacrament of Penance
newadvent.org/cathen/11618c.htm
Penance is a sacrament of the New Law instituted by Christ in which forgiveness of sins committed after baptism is granted through the priest’s absolution to those who with true sorrow confess their sins and promise to satisfy for the same. It is called a “sacrament” not simply a function or ceremony, because it is an outward sign instituted by Christ to impart grace to the soul. As an outward sign it comprises the actions of the penitent in presenting himself to the priest and accusing himself of his sins, and the actions of the priest in pronouncing absolution and imposing satisfaction. This whole procedure is usually called, from one of its parts, “confession”, and it is said to take place in the “tribunal of penance”, because it is a judicial process in which the penitent is at once the accuser, the person accused, and the witness, while the priest pronounces judgment and sentence. The grace conferred is deliverance from the guilt of sin and, in the case of mortal sin, from its eternal punishment; hence also reconciliation with God, justification. Finally, the confession is made not in the secrecy of the penitent’s heart nor to a layman as friend and advocate, nor to a representative of human authority, but to a duly ordained priest with requisite jurisdiction and with the “power of the keys”, i.e., the power to forgive sins which Christ granted to His Church.
 
I did not think so. I think your main point was to relay your personal experience and thoughts on problems with altar calls and such. My main point is that altar calls, instantaneous conversions, are scriptural.
I am curious as to what I said that would make you think I missed your point?
Just a feeling. But can you give “specific” scriptures that make “altar calls” scriptural? Beyond that… I think you missed the point that emotional motivations for accepting religion…are invalid and weak as well as temporary conditions. Yes, some succeed, but many fail… as soon as the “high” passes. But then, I’m not a mind reader… 🙂
 
I told my Baptist friend that the Catholic Church is the most Biblical church. I asked him why he didn’t fallow some Bible passages I e-mailed him after he told me the Church doesn’t fallow the correct Ten Commandments and he didn’t answer.
Pray for him.

And pray that you can mirror Christ to him in your ordinary works.

He will never have a better testimony than that.

How you live your life.

🙂

:eek:

Oh my! What if he sees us sin…

Be a witness to everyone at all times, in your words, actions and deeds.

Suffer with Christ when you see those who hate Him.

Share in His Passion, embrace it- and focus on how you can make others see this light in darkness

Just my musings
 
Just a feeling. But can you give “specific” scriptures that make “altar calls” scriptural? Beyond that… I think you missed the point that emotional motivations for accepting religion…are invalid and weak as well as temporary conditions. Yes, some succeed, but many fail… as soon as the “high” passes. But then, I’m not a mind reader… 🙂
Act 2:40 ¶ And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.

Are you feelings about emotions official Catholic doctrine or your personal thoughts Rob?
 
Act 2:40 ¶ And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.

Are you feelings about emotions official Catholic doctrine or your personal thoughts Rob?
Baptized is the key
Seems to me you need an Alter to have an Alter Call

Visit our Multimedia site for the Daily Mass!
Readings
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Today’s Petitions
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themass.org/
 
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