What Church Is Most Biblical?

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Mannyfit75 said:
It is done in the Church I’m just claiming that it isn’t a type of Worship. I read the entire passage. Paul spoke about the importance of speaking in tongue. That it is a gift from God, and that one should not be prevented to speak it. There is** no mention that speaking of tongue as a type of worship**. 1 Corinthians 14 doesn’t say worship at all. It’s just believers speaking in tongues in the Church.
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Do you contend that NONE of the spiritual gifts are worship or just tongues are not worship? Which of the spiritual gifts are and are not worship according to you? Catholics usually avoid these chapters like the plague so this is very interesting to me!
 
BrianH said:
Do you contend that NONE of the spiritual gifts are worship or just tongues are not worship? Which of the spiritual gifts are and are not worship according to you? Catholics usually avoid these chapters like the plague so this is very interesting to me!
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The ability to speak is not required to worship God - having a tongue is not required - It is not required period
 
BrianH said:
Do you contend that NONE of the spiritual gifts are worship or just tongues are not worship?
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Spiritual gifts inspire believers to worship. Spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit gives us wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, prophecy, speaking in tongues, intepretation of tongues.

In the Mass, it is the Holy Spirit who gives us to praise God by singing the Psalms, and Hymns.

Which of the spiritual gifts are and are not worship according to you?

Speaking of tongues are not type of worship.
Catholics usually avoid these chapters like the plague so this is very interesting to me!
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Not really. There numerous saints in the Catholic Church who have spoken in tongues, raise the dead, etc… Catholics don’t avoid these passages most devout practicing ones.
 
again show me in the Bible speaking in tongues is worship… 1 Cor 14 doesn’t. I already explain that in previous post. The passage doesn’t show it at all as a type of worship…
 
Mannyfit75 said:
again show me in the Bible speaking in tongues is worship… 1 Cor 14 doesn’t. I already explain that in previous post. The passage doesn’t show it at all as a type of worship…
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You know perhaps we do not agree on what proskyneo means? All spiritual gifts were part of the service. Agree or disagree?
 
BrianH said:
You know perhaps we do not agree on what proskyneo means? All spiritual gifts were part of the service. Agree or disagree?
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Proskyneos: to make obeisance, do reverence to(from pros, towards, and kuneo, to kiss)is the most frequent word rendered to worship.

In some form yes some spiritual gifts are part of the service. Though there is none that made certain gifts like “speaking in tongues” as mandated as required for worship. As I have already show your through traditions and historical records that Christian type of worship is based on the Jewish Liturgy. The Early Church was liturgical. Scripture play an important role and its centered on the Pascha.
 
At this moment in the Church’s history, the Charismatic Renewal can play a significant role in promoting the much-needed defense of Christian life in societies where secularism and materialism have weakened many people’s ability to respond to the Spirit and to discern God’s loving call. Your contribution to the re-evangelization of society will be made in the first place by personal witness to the indwelling Spirit and by showing forth His presence through works of holiness and solidarity
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Pope John Paul II
 
BrianH said:
Pope John Paul II
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  1. Signs of the spirit of God: fits with teaching of Church; serious; gives light to the soul, docility, discretion: no hurriedness or exaggerations; humble thoughts; confidence in God, rightness of intention, patience in suffering, self-denial, sincerity and simplicity in conduct, no attachments not even to the gifts, great desire to imitate Christ in all things (a very strong sign), gentleness, kindness;
  2. Signs of the evil spirit: (the opposite of the above–spirit of falseness or lie, suggestion of useless things, curious things, impertinent things, darkness, restlessness in the soul, a bold, obstinate spirit, many indiscretions, pride, lack of hope, disobedience, vanity, self-satisfaction, impatience, rebellion of the passions, hypocrisy, pretense, attachment to earthly things, forgetfulness of Christ and of imitating him, a false charity including bitter zeal, indiscretion
catholic-pages.com/bvm/private_revelations.asp
 
BrianH said:
Are you suggesting that Rome is against speaking in tongues during Roman Catholic services!?!?!
ewtn.com/expert/answers/charismatic_renewal.htm
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Sanctifying graces are those that are aimed at making the recipient holy. They include: actual grace, a grace He sends me at this moment, to lead me and to enable me to do a particular good thing here and now, and habitual grace (also called sanctifying) which actually does make the recipient holy. It gives the soul the radical ability to take in the face to face vision of God in the next life. Increase in sanctifying grace means an increase in that capacity–for since the vision is infinite, our capacity can never reach the limit of growth.

The other category is called charismatic. These graces are not aimed directly at making the recipient holy. They are for some other sort of benefit to the individual or the community. There are two kinds of charismatic graces: ordinary and extraordinary.

Where do the Gifts of the Holy Spirit fit in? There are two groups of them, one in the sanctifying, one in the charismatic category.

In the “sanctifying category” we find the seven gifts, which are given along with sanctifying (habitual) grace.

In the “charismatic” category we find both the ordinary gifts–e.g, the gift to be a good parent or a good teacher–and the extraordinary gifts, those which are or seem miraculous, such as the gifts of healing, tongues, or miracles.

ewtn.com/faith/teachings/spira2.htm
 
BrianH said:
You do agree it is “in the church” and that Christians are gathered?
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People gather in the Church for a variety of reasons - we have Mass every day, but it doesn’t go on all day long - the rest of the day is taken up with Bible study, Rosary group, Youth meetings, Catechism classes, etc. - it is perfectly possible for there to have been Charismatic meetings in the early Church either after or before Mass.

Charismatics do not speak in tongues during Mass - that would be inappropriate.
 
jmcrae said:
People gather in the Church for a variety of reasons - we have Mass every day, but it doesn’t go on all day long - the rest of the day is taken up with Bible study, Rosary group, Youth meetings, Catechism classes, etc. - it is perfectly possible for there to have been Charismatic meetings in the early Church either after or before Mass.

Charismatics do not speak in tongues during Mass - that would be inappropriate.
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Are you sure?
Charismatic Prayer and The Mass: A charismatic style of prayer is common at Christ the King. People are free to raise their hands in prayer and during songs, many pray their own prayers audibly, some pray in tongues, etc… We pray with expressive or charismatic prayer at monthly parish prayer meetings, at the beginning of parish meetings, and most especially during certain moments in the Holy Mass. These are some of the external markers of a charismatic parish. Internal markers include a radical surrender to the Lordship of Jesus Christ in all parts of life, a strong adherance to the Gospel and the teachings of the Catholic Church, and the pursuit of strong friendships centered on Christ. As Catholics, this obviously includes abiding in the heart of the Church in union with our beloved Bishop and Pope Benedict XVI.
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rc.net/lansing/ctk/
 
Mannyfit75 said:
I’ve been Catholic for 32 yrs. I believe it to be so. Just because you were a former Catholic, I find nothing you can say will convince otherwise that the CC isn’t. It is my friend. That is the view of the majority of the Catholics in this forum, as well as those who practiced their faith.
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Good for you!! We all have an opinion don’t we? Mine is that the Catholic church is not THE most Biblical church; it isn’t the least Biblical either.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
He did. Read 1 Cor 11 verse 21-26.

21 For every one taketh before his own supper to eat. And one indeed is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What, have you not houses to eat and to drink in? Or despise ye the church of God; and put them to shame that have not? What shall I say to you? Do I praise you? In this I praise you not. 23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. 24 And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me. 25 In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.

26 For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. 27 Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. 30 Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you, and many sleep.

Commentary: Paul said that some in the Church have been receiving the Body and Blood of the Lord unworthily. He tells the congregation that they should examine themselves before consuming the Body and Blood of the Lord. He wrote this because the Christians in Corinthians have gone to Church because they were hungry. So Paul says, If any man be hungry, let him eat at home; that you come not together unto judgment. And the rest I will set in order, when I come

Also every Sunday, the first day of the week the Apostles gather together and also break bread. In the Mass we do break bread on Sundays.
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Yeah and??? Where does Paul speak about the whole premise of the Catholic mass?
 
BrianH said:
Are you sure?
Charismatic Prayer and The Mass: A charismatic style of prayer is common at Christ the King. People are free to raise their hands in prayer and during songs, many pray their own prayers audibly, some pray in tongues, etc… We pray with expressive or charismatic prayer at monthly parish prayer meetings, at the beginning of parish meetings, and most especially during certain moments in the Holy Mass. These are some of the external markers of a charismatic parish. Internal markers include a radical surrender to the Lordship of Jesus Christ in all parts of life, a strong adherance to the Gospel and the teachings of the Catholic Church, and the pursuit of strong friendships centered on Christ. As Catholics, this obviously includes abiding in the heart of the Church in union with our beloved Bishop and Pope Benedict XVI.
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Yes, I’m sure. There is nothing in the rubrics of the Mass that allows for “speaking in tongues” at any point during the Mass - the responses are either to be in Latin, or in the local language of the people. The priest of course also speaks his parts either in Latin or in the local language of the people - the only exception would be the Kyrie, which of course should be spoken in Greek, although it is also often spoken in the local language.

The fact that someone wants to invent a “charismatic Mass” does not mean that such a thing has any legal standing in the Catholic Church.

Charismatic meetings outside of Mass are fine - and even encouraged - but there is no place for these activities in the Mass itself.

There are other spiritual gifts that are not used during Mass, either - don’t make the mistake of equating the Church with the Mass - the Mass is the focal point, but the Church is bigger than the Mass, and the majority of the spiritual gifts are used more outside of Mass than in it.
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