What consists of Catholic dogma?

[JFJK]

Here is the argument:
I say that I am a catholic Christian.
My friend says that it means, that I support killing innocent people
I say that I personally strongly oppose violence done for religious reason.
My friend says that by being Catholic, you support the inquisition and wars that were waged by your organization, and forcing your religion on others.
I say that this is due to human nature, human beings sin, and the Church is made up of humans. But if individuals do bad things in the name of the Church, it is totally against the Church’s teachings.
My friend replies: But some of the atrocities are still supported by your Church’s teachings. And your authoritative hierarchy makes it very easy for your pope and bishops to support violence in future and everybody will obey like sheep.
I reply: No, The official teaching doesn’t support violence, it fully supports the universal declaration of human rights.

So the question here is:
What exactly consists of Catholic dogma, what teachings are binding for all Caholics and how to distinguish this from personal opinions of past Church authorities? I would hate to be a part of an organization that officially supports violations of human rights!

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Your friends is just using straw man arguments that are not supported by history. It’s typical anti-Catholic rhetoric, and unfortunately, unless your friend is actually willing to look at history objectively, and not just at the nonsense he’s had shoved on him, then his opinions are unlikely to change.

As for Dogma, your best bet would be to start with the Catechism .

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Here is the argument:
I say that I am a catholic Christian.
My friend says that it means, that I support killing innocent people
I say that I personally strongly oppose violence done for religious reason.
My friend says that by being Catholic, you support the inquisition and wars that were waged by your organization, and forcing your religion on others.
I say that this is due to human nature, human beings sin, and the Church is made up of humans. But if individuals do bad things in the name of the Church, it is totally against the Church’s teachings.
My friend replies: But some of the atrocities are still supported by your Church’s teachings. And your authoritative hierarchy makes it very easy for your pope and bishops to support violence in future and everybody will obey like sheep.
I reply: No, The official teaching doesn’t support violence, it fully supports the universal declaration of human rights.

So the question here is:
What exactly consists of Catholic dogma, what teachings are binding for all Caholics and how to distinguish this from personal opinions of past Church authorities? I would hate to be a part of an organization that officially supports violations of human rights!

Your friend is an anti-Catholic bigot with a liberal agenda. You could probably spend a life time answering his questions and he would still hate the Catholic Church. Books have been written in answer to the questions he raised.

All you really need to do is be firm in your own faith. The best place to start is by reading and becoming familiar with what the Catholic Church teaches and that can be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
Catholics are required to believe everything in the Catechism.

The Dogmas of the Church are found in the Catechism but not highlighted. The difference between Dogmas and the other elements of Catholic Doctrine is that Dogmas are specific statements of the Church made in Dogmatic fashion in response to specific errors prominent at various times in history. Most of these can be found in Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott. It is important to remember that Dogmas are only part of Catholic Doctrine which must be believed. The Catechism contains all that must be believed.

As to some of the questions raised by your " friend " you need to read a good history of the Catholic Church such as the The Building of Christendom by Warren Carroll and others. Many of these topics are also found in the Catholic Encyclopedia.
newadvent.org/cathen/ . Good Luck.

 

[St_Francis]

Here is the argument:
I say that I am a catholic Christian.
My friend says that it means, that I support killing innocent people
I say that I personally strongly oppose violence done for religious reason.
My friend says that by being Catholic, you support the inquisition and wars that were waged by your organization, and forcing your religion on others.

here is where your friend’s errors lie: that being Catholic means you support everything that anyone called Catholic does, and secondly, that the Inquisition and the Crusades were wrong.

To counter this are at least 3 points: 1. that when someone makes an assertion, *he *must back it up; 2. that one must consider the fruits of the Church to be those things which happen as a result of *adherence to *Her teachings rather than *deviance from *those teachings; and 3. what the Inquisition and Crusades were all about.

I say that this is due to human nature, human beings sin, and the Church is made up of humans. But if individuals do bad things in the name of the Church, it is totally against the Church’s teachings.
My friend replies: But some of the atrocities are still supported by your Church’s teachings. And your authoritative hierarchy makes it very easy for your pope and bishops to support violence in future and everybody will obey like sheep.
I reply: No, The official teaching doesn’t support violence, it fully supports the universal declaration of human rights.

For this part of your friend’s comments, I would say that Church support for self-defense, both on an individual and a social level, is what counts.

So the question here is:
What exactly consists of Catholic dogma, what teachings are binding for all Caholics and how to distinguish this from personal opinions of past Church authorities? I would hate to be a part of an organization that officially supports violations of human rights!

This is a very broad question! It sounds like you need to learn more about Church teachings and about Church history.

Overall, most of the teachings of the Church are contained in the Catechism*, which refers readers to the original documents when more detail is needed. There is a lot of information about various events in Church history on many threads here at CAF. For example, you could run a search on the word Inquisition, and limit the search to the thread titles to get more specific results.

*Sorry I could not find it in Finnish! But you might search for it, using Finnish.

 

[JRKH]

Here is the argument:
I say that I am a catholic Christian.
My friend says that it means, that I support killing innocent people
I say that I personally strongly oppose violence done for religious reason.
My friend says that by being Catholic, you support the inquisition and wars that were waged by your organization, and forcing your religion on others.

Well - This might be different in Finland…but here in the U.S. my response to this other person would be that this is a false connection. It would be like me saying to him that by being an American he supports the wars waged against the Native Americans and the stealing of their lands and the policy of virtual genocide waged by the US government on them. All of this done in spite of the founding principle of all men being created equal.

Then I would see where the conversation went from there.

I say that this is due to human nature, human beings sin, and the Church is made up of humans. But if individuals do bad things in the name of the Church, it is totally against the Church’s teachings.
My friend replies: But some of the atrocities are still supported by your Church’s teachings. And your authoritative hierarchy makes it very easy for your pope and bishops to support violence in future and everybody will obey like sheep.
I reply: No, The official teaching doesn’t support violence, it fully supports the universal declaration of human rights.

At this point I would suggest that rather than simply toss out accusations, we begin looking at actual teachings…The Catechism (available on-line) etc.

So the question here is:
What exactly consists of Catholic dogma, what teachings are binding for all Caholics and how to distinguish this from personal opinions of past Church authorities? I would hate to be a part of an organization that officially supports violations of human rights!

Well HERE is a list of Dogmas and HERE is a link to the Catechism with a search engine at the bottom of the page.
The Catechism will likely prove much more useful to your conversation.

Peace
James

 

[chanson]

These kinds of “answers” are why I am a recovering catholic. The questioner here has a lot of reading to do on church history and a lifetime of soul searching and truth seeking to do. Nobody can do it for you, Mr./Miss questioner. The answers are within yourself. The Catechism is fine to read, but nobody can tell you what to believe – you either believe certain things because they ring true within yourself or you don’t believe in certain things. There is much in the Catechism that I truly believe deep within myself, but if something sounds absurd, it probably is.

When you are older and you have become friends with many people from many different organized religions and people who don’t belong to particular organized religions, you will become more in touch with what is truth. You will learn that we are ALL children of God and that God does not separate – human beings separate.

 

[JFJK]

Thank you JRKH for taking time for your reply.

Quote:

My friend says that by being Catholic, you support the inquisition and wars that were waged by your organization, and forcing your religion on others.
Well - This might be different in Finland…but here in the U.S. my response to this other person would be that this is a false connection. It would be like me saying to him that by being an American he supports the wars waged against the Native Americans and the stealing of their lands and the policy of virtual genocide waged by the US government on them. All of this done in spite of the founding principle of all men being created equal.

Here I’m not so sure if that’s a good comparison. Country citizenship is something very difficult to change… Could it be more like saying that by being communist, you indirectly support the cruelties done by communists in the Soviet Union and in North Korea? Although communism proclaims high ideals of equality and removing poverty? And although most communist parties in the West now condemn the crimes of stalinism?

Also thank you for the online catechism links. I have the “Compendium of Catechism of Catholic Church” but the detailed links may also help me in my inquiry.

 

[JFJK]

These kinds of “answers” are why I am a recovering catholic. The questioner here has a lot of reading to do on church history and a lifetime of soul searching and truth seeking to do. Nobody can do it for you, Mr./Miss questioner. The answers are within yourself. The Catechism is fine to read, but nobody can tell you what to believe – you either believe certain things because they ring true within yourself or you don’t believe in certain things. There is much in the Catechism that I truly believe deep within myself, but if something sounds absurd, it probably is.

When you are older and you have become friends with many people from many different organized religions and people who don’t belong to particular organized religions, you will become more in touch with what is truth. You will learn that we are ALL children of God and that God does not separate – human beings separate.

Well said. I keep on searching. Blindly accepting other people’s ideas is not my style.

 

[JFJK]

Thank you StFrancis for your kind reply.

here is where your friend’s errors lie: that being Catholic means you support everything that anyone called Catholic does, and secondly, that the Inquisition and the Crusades were wrong.

I was always convinced that the Inquisition and the Crusades were wrong. But this is for another discussion later.

 

[JFJK]

As to some of the questions raised by your " friend " you need to read a good history of the Catholic Church such as the The Building of Christendom by Warren Carroll and others. Many of these topics are also found in the Catholic Encyclopedia.
newadvent.org/cathen/ . Good Luck.

Thank you for the tip, I’m also interested in history myself, this could be a good read for the long winter evenings…

 

[JRKH]

Thank you JRKH for taking time for your reply.

Quote:

Here I’m not so sure if that’s a good comparison. Country citizenship is something very difficult to change… Could it be more like saying that by being communist, you indirectly support the cruelties done by communists in the Soviet Union and in North Korea? Although communism proclaims high ideals of equality and removing poverty? And although most communist parties in the West now condemn the crimes of Stalinism?

Yes that is a good comparison. You are right - it should ideally be something the person freely subscribes to.

Also thank you for the online catechism links. I have the “Compendium of Catechism of Catholic Church” but the detailed links may also help me in my inquiry.

Peace
James