What Constitutes A Christian?

[mercygate]

I apologize for not being clearer.
I quoted, and pasted scripture references and the rest is mine.

Originally, in the first creation there was a marriage of heaven and earth.
Adam being the breath of God and Eve being the vessel of clay: they both became one living soul.

That’s a new one on me. Adam is vivified BY the breath of God. He is not, himself, the breath of God. Eve is hardly a “vessel of clay” since she is created from the bone of Adam. You are jumbling your images. Do you make this up or is this a belief of your faith system?

The significance of that is that we all as living souls have within us a Godly conscience.

The degree of that depends on our relationship to God.

Non sequitur.

Let’s return this thread to zerinus, who started it, and get off of whether baptism regenerates or not, which is secondary to the topic of what constitutes a Christian. Actually, in a very pointed sense, baptism IS one of the constitutive acts of the Christian faith.

I find your writing style difficult to follow. And that is not because we are unacquainted with Scripture.

 

[zerinus]

That’s a new one on me. Adam is vivified BY the breath of God. He is not, himself, the breath of God. Eve is hardly a “vessel of clay” since she is created from the bone of Adam. You are jumbling your images. Do you make this up or is this a belief of your faith system?

Non sequitur.

Let’s return this thread to zerinus, who started it, and get off of whether baptism regenerates or not, which is secondary to the topic of what constitutes a Christian. Actually, in a very pointed sense, baptism IS one of the constitutive acts of the Christian faith.

I find your writing style difficult to follow. And that is not because we are unacquainted with Scripture.

Thank you! The main responses I have so far received from various people to my original Blog post (here as well as in other forums where I have discussed this subject) may be summarized as follows:

1. Those who have completely ignored what I have written in my Blog (probably didn’t even read it), and just dished out their own ideas of what constitutes a Christian. My answer to them is: I am not impressed! Unless they can give me a good reason why their definition of a Christian is superior to mine, or why I should accept their definitions in preference to my own, I am not going to take them very seriously. (Erich’s argument that “the Catholic Church says so, and that is how it will be” may be good enough for him, but will not be for me, nor for anyone else who is interested in a rational discussion. If everything boils down to “the Catholic Church says so …,” what is the point of him debating anything here at all?)
2. Those who say that a Christian is just someone who believes in and worships Jesus Christ (or some other simple definition based on one’s belief). That is a typical Protestant response. The answer to that is, How are they going to apply that criterion in practice to determine if someone (or some church) is truly Christian or not? That test fails when you are dealing with someone who is a liar or a hypocrite, who pretends to piety for appearance or for personal gain, but whose hearts is far from it. The test that Jesus gave (“know them by their fruits”) was designed to catch those kinds of people—the ones who “love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces, and the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts: which devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayers” (Mark 12:38–40). We still have plenty of them around, even in this day and age. Jesus’ rule was designed to catch those kinds of people. The simple definition based on faith or belief fails to do that. I did not invent that rule. Jesus did.
3. Those who insist on a set of doctrinal beliefs, such as in the Trinitarian theology for example, as a requirement for being a true Christian. My answer to that is, According to the scriptural definition, a Christian is a true disciple of Jesus Christ; and belief in a set of doctrinal formulations has never been a requirement of discipleship. To the “rich young ruler” who asked Jesus what he should do in order to obtain eternal life, Jesus replied: “… go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, … and come and follow me .” (Matthew 19:21.) He did not give him a set of doctrinal rules, and tell him to believe in those, and he would become a disciple!
4. One person has argued that the rule for determining whether a person is a Christian is different from the rule for deciding whether a church is Christian. I don’t think that that objection is valid. The same rule is equally applicable to both. A church consists of the body of its membership. That is the literal meaning of the word “church”. And the rule is equally applicable to a single individual as it does to a whole group of people. It is applied individually to the first, and collectively to the second. The criterion is versatile enough to be applicable to both.

zerinus

 

[Seraphim25]

Thank you! The main responses I have so far received from various people to my original Blog post (here as well as in other forums where I have discussed this subject) may be summarized as follows:

1. Those who have completely ignored what I have written in my Blog (probably didn’t even read it), and just dished out their own ideas of what constitutes a Christian. My answer to them is: I am not impressed! Unless they can give me a good reason why their definition of a Christian is superior to mine, or why I should accept their definitions in preference to my own, I am not going to take them very seriously. (Erich’s argument that “the Catholic Church says so, and that is how it will be” may be good enough for him, but will not be for me, nor for anyone else who is interested in a rational discussion. If everything boils down to “the Catholic Church says so …,” what is the point of him debating anything here at all?)
2. Those who say that a Christian is just someone who believes in and worships Jesus Christ (or some other simple definition based on one’s belief). That is a typical Protestant response. The answer to that is, How are they going to apply that criterion in practice to determine if someone (or some church) is truly Christian or not? That test fails when you are dealing with someone who is a liar or a hypocrite, who pretends to piety for appearance or for personal gain, but whose hearts is far from it. The test that Jesus gave (“know them by their fruits”) was designed to catch those kinds of people—the ones who “love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces, and the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts: which devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayers” (Mark 12:38–40). We still have plenty of them around, even in this day and age. Jesus’ rule was designed to catch those kinds of people. The simple definition based on faith or belief fails to do that. I did not invent that rule. Jesus did.
3. Those who insist on a set of doctrinal beliefs, such as in the Trinitarian theology for example, as a requirement for being a true Christian. My answer to that is, According to the scriptural definition, a Christian is a true disciple of Jesus Christ; and belief in a set of doctrinal formulations has never been a requirement of discipleship. To the “rich young ruler” who asked Jesus what he should do in order to obtain eternal life, Jesus replied: “… go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, … and come and follow me .” (Matthew 19:21.) He did not give him a set of doctrinal rules, and tell him to believe in those, and he would become a disciple!
4. One person has argued that the rule for determining whether a person is a Christian is different from the rule for deciding whether a church is Christian. I don’t think that that objection is valid. The same rule is equally applicable to both. A church consists of the body of its membership. That is the literal meaning of the word “church”. And the rule is equally applicable to a single individual as it does to a whole group of people. It is applied individually to the first, and collectively to the second. The criterion is versatile enough to be applicable to both.

zerinus

For your evaluation number 2 I say plainly that one must confess that the lord is Jesus Christ. Secondly, it is by the love that we have for our fellow man that will shine through the light of God in dark places. For love is the ultimate self awarness of were you are with God. Example: If you hate your bother but love God it is impossible for you to know God. For God is love so therefore you can’t enter the kingdom or call yourself a christian. If you do then the members of teh body of christ will point that out and give them a challenge to repent and turn back to God.

Love is work and is therefore the determing function of how we serve the lord. You will be renderd an account of the love not of the works therein. For the works without love are dead and is therefore rendered useless in the sight of God (Book of James)
So It is NOT the amount of Money, opening the doors for the elderly or anybody else for that matter, taking the trash out are your neighbors house…ect. It will be rendered at the love at which you do those things that will make you righteous in teh sight of God. Love is the ultimate faction at which a person who confesses that Christ is Lord shall be saved.

Do we know who will be saved? Of course not! For God only knows who will be saved and it is not up to us to wonder who will be going to heaven and hell. Thte only commission is given to us is to be the seed planter and that is all. Meaning to preach the gospel through out the entire earth.We are the seed planters anbd God is the plant grower and prunes out the things that need to be pruned. For God calls us Sons/Daugthers and chastises us so that we can grow and become perfect as he is perfect. Though that is something we strive for every day but will never attain it in this life. To be good stewards of Gods creation out of the love that God displayed to us in Jesus Christ(sacfrice for our sins).

Therefore, it is love by which and at which we will be saved along with the faith and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. That at his second comming all of those that are dead and alive in him shall not be put to shame. Glory to you father and Lord in the highest!!!.The works are not of our own and comes from on high for alll things are possible to god but without God nothing is possible!!

Peace to you brother on your journey through the truth and may God keep you and bless you! Amen

 

[look3467]

Is this your enterpretation of the Sacred Scriptures or somebody else tought you this?

**“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… **

I respect your views as per the authority of the Catholic Church for that is what your understanding is based on.

I in turn have visited the various beliefs looking for a common thread that would give me a clue to who God really loves.

I found that the answer was right in front of me, in the bible.

The answer is love.

Without Godly type of love, there can be no relationship with God or with fellow mankind.

I sought out my answers by prayer and searching s.

I believe God has provided me with the answers I sought and gave me an understanding concerning them.

That’s where I get my learning via the Holy Spirit who is my instructor.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[zerinus]

For your evaluation number 2 I say plainly that one must confess that the lord is Jesus Christ. Secondly, it is by the love that we have for our fellow man that will shine through the light of God in dark places. For love is the ultimate self awarness of were you are with God. Example: If you hate your bother but love God it is impossible for you to know God. For God is love so therefore you can’t enter the kingdom or call yourself a christian. If you do then the members of teh body of christ will point that out and give them a challenge to repent and turn back to God.

Love is work and is therefore the determing function of how we serve the lord. You will be renderd an account of the love not of the works therein. For the works without love are dead and is therefore rendered useless in the sight of God (Book of James)
So It is NOT the amount of Money, opening the doors for the elderly or anybody else for that matter, taking the trash out are your neighbors house…ect. It will be rendered at the love at which you do those things that will make you righteous in teh sight of God. Love is the ultimate faction at which a person who confesses that Christ is Lord shall be saved.

Do we know who will be saved? Of course not! For God only knows who will be saved and it is not up to us to wonder who will be going to heaven and hell. Thte only commission is given to us is to be the seed planter and that is all. Meaning to preach the gospel through out the entire earth.We are the seed planters anbd God is the plant grower and prunes out the things that need to be pruned. For God calls us Sons/Daugthers and chastises us so that we can grow and become perfect as he is perfect. Though that is something we strive for every day but will never attain it in this life. To be good stewards of Gods creation out of the love that God displayed to us in Jesus Christ(sacfrice for our sins).

Therefore, it is love by which and at which we will be saved along with the faith and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. That at his second comming all of those that are dead and alive in him shall not be put to shame. Glory to you father and Lord in the highest!!!.The works are not of our own and comes from on high for alll things are possible to god but without God nothing is possible!!

Peace to you brother on your journey through the truth and may God keep you and bless you! Amen

You belong to category #1 I had mentioned in my previous post.

zerinus

 

[look3467]

That’s a new one on me. Adam is vivified BY the breath of God. He is not, himself, the breath of God. Eve is hardly a “vessel of clay” since she is created from the bone of Adam. You are jumbling your images. Do you make this up or is this a belief of your faith system?

Mercygate

I know, this new stuff is hard to digest as being worth consideration.
But ten again, how are we to make a judgment on it if we are not exposed to it?

The bible has many similitude’s which hide a truth.

Take for instance, a mountain = authority in high places, clouds = sins.

By learning the other meanings of these words will give some new understandings.

That is up to the individual to seek them out and one thought by the institutions.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

1! Unless they can give me a good reason why their definition of a Christian is superior to mine, or why I should accept their definitions in preference to my own, I am not going to take them very seriously.>>>zerinus

If the condition has to be superior to your own, I doubt it seriously that you will find one.

I contend that the diversities of beliefs are as a designed works of God, because it is in the diversity where love can be born and exercised.

Maybe hard to understand, but love can only be truly demonstrated where there is no love and in the face of adversity.

1. Those who say that a Christian is just someone who believes in and worships Jesus Christ (or some other simple definition based on one’s belief). That is a typical Protestant response. The answer to that is, How are they going to apply that criterion in practice to determine if someone (or some church) is truly Christian or not? That test fails when you are dealing with someone who is a liar or a hypocrite, who pretends to piety for appearance or for personal gain, but whose hearts is far from it. The test that Jesus gave (“know them by their fruits”) was designed to catch those kinds of people—the ones who “love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces, and the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts: which devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayers” (Mark 12:38–40). We still have plenty of them around, even in this day and age. Jesus’ rule was designed to catch those kinds of people. The simple definition based on faith or belief fails to do that. I did not invent that rule. Jesus did.>>>zerinus

The one’s we think are "good Christians " may one day disappoint us because we forget that we are are all subject to this worlds lusts.

Therefore, there is not one church, or individual person whose righteousness is acceptable to God save that of Jesus Christ.

What that means then is that apart from Jesus’ grace, there is none other.

Hence, forgiveness.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[wisdomseeker]

I respect your views as per the authority of the Catholic Church for that is what your understanding is based on.

I in turn have visited the various beliefs looking for a common thread that would give me a clue to who God really loves.

I found that the answer was right in front of me, in the bible.

The answer is love.

Without Godly type of love, there can be no relationship with God or with fellow mankind.

I sought out my answers by prayer and searching s.

I believe God has provided me with the answers I sought and gave me an understanding concerning them.

That’s where I get my learning via the Holy Spirit who is my instructor.

Peace>>>AJ

So it is your enterpretation. one more among so many who also claim the same thing. the Holy Spirit gave the enterpretation.

i hope you realize that Jesus built a Church not churces with many different enterpretation of His Word.

i hope you also realize that you should not come here with the attitude of thinking you know at all.

the Church still here and has been for 2000 years. dont let others tell you that the Church is wrong.

at least be respectfull of the Church Jesus built.

i am sure she knows more than you do.

**“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… **

 

[Seraphim25]

You belong to category #1 I had mentioned in my previous post.

zerinus

the matter of the category is not relevant what is relevant is the fact that you are ignoring those in whom are trying to teach you something! You have posed a great question concerning what “constitutes a christian”

Moreover how do you know to whom read and not read your blog on the first page of this site. I in fact did, and you also said if any body can find flaws in them to let you know. I in fact did. therefore you have not read my post to tell you at which what “constitutes a christian”.

Nobody here can tell you what to believe only what you want to hear and believe in your hearing. But I tell you hear God and he will tell you. But I say plainly, you must open your heart, mind, and your eyes for you to know what God tells you.

Peace brother in your quest!! In Christ Jesus

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

I respect your views as per the authority of the Catholic Church for that is what your understanding is based on.

I in turn have visited the various beliefs looking for a common thread that would give me a clue to who God really loves.

How is your new “Church” going up there in Redding, AJ??

Private interpretation; private revelation; esoteric and rambling verbiage: sounds like another off-shoot of a split sect from a divided “confession” denomination transplanted from England.

Mama Mia !!!

Robert

 

[Seraphim25]

You belong to category #1 I had mentioned in my previous post.

zerinus

On other note: based on what everybody is saying you have not liked what you have been reading. I think you are looking or a complex answer to your complex question. IN reality your question is not complex but is simple. For God is simply and humble in heart and he does not make himself complicated for us to know him. For in it we are able to know him by is simplicity. As long as we are willing to listen to what he has to say. His word!!! What is Gods word? Jesus Christ is the word.

You had mentioned that how do you know or how do you tell who the hypocrites are? That question is also simple? Jesus had the same very problem in his day. He had many followers. I believe the bible uses a multitude of followers. However, when crunch came people fell away in droves. Why? Because of what Jesus was saying concerning who he was and how do attain eternal life!! People said how do we gain heaven? Jesus says I am the bread that comes from heaven he ;who eats my flesh and he who drinks my blood shall never die but have eternal life. The people who so confused at this that they did not understand. They murmured amongst themselves and said. How can we eat his flesh and drink his blood? This is ridiculous I am of here type attitude. Jesus turned to his disciples and said are you too leaving? and his disciples said no Lord for you have the words of life where shall we go?

In todays world we are the light of the world in dark places. How do we know who is christian who is not? the answer lies in is the person doing what Jesus tells them. If not then no. if yes then yes. Now example of this would be if you have a friend who says he is Christian but he goes to strip clubs is he christian? It depends on his answer. If you confront him and say he man you claim to be christian but you go to these places of immorality why do you go? Stop repent turn back to God for this places kills your soul and is causing you to stumble in the sight of God. IF he says get away from me who are you to judge me I know my God I know what I am doing leave me alone. Then chances are he is not one of the members of the body of Christ. If then he says you are right and is truly sorrowful and repents and stops going then yes he is in fact true believer in Christ.

But Like I said before God is simple and humble of heart he will not make things complicated for you. As long as you are willing to listen to his voice. For his own knows his voice and follows him no matter where he goes.

If you know God then you also know his son as well. For the father sent his son for our benefit because the father loves us dearly. Therefore if you say you know God then you also must say you know Jesus. For they are one of the same! That is why when the disciples wanted to see the father Jesus says; How long have you been with me and you still do not know the father? He who has seen me has seen the father. For I do not come in my own will but of the will of my father. For I say what he tells me and I do what he does.

Therefore listen with your ears and hear. For what you are hearing shall bring you peace and joy unending with Christ our lord!

 

[look3467]

How is your new “Church” going up there in Redding, AJ??

Private interpretation; private revelation; esoteric and rambling verbiage: sounds like another off-shoot of a split sect from a divided “confession” denomination transplanted from England.

Mama Mia !!!

Robert

You ask that question knowing that I will not fit your idea of what the church is, therefore, I am discredited as a believer who has private interpretations and not really concerned with the spirit of what the church really is.

In my view the church is, refs: Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this **rock **I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Rock = 1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

The church was founded upon a rock, as in the rock solid faith of Jesus Christ, Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Sometimes we use the Cliché that when troubles come is as if they may pour down like rain, and floodsas in great hoards at one time, winds as if trouble comes from any direction not knowing from where, and "beat upon the rock as if all those things are bent to destroy the rock or a house that is built upon that rock.

We are knowledgeable of the Jewish temple being destroyed not once but by twice, giving the fact that an earthly temple is not the solid rock, save Christ.

Christ in us will never be destroyed even if this physical temple is destroyed.

The rock? Psa 18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.

If I by my own interpretations can and do exercises the love of Christ to wards all my brethren, would that disqualify me from the truth?

What if I had all the backings of “a” church and not exercises the love of Christ to wards my breathren, would that qualify me?

Is it not the heart that God looks at?
1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

I may not have a physical church to attend, but I do have Christ the solid rock of my salvation in whom I trust and live.

I judge the character of the individual and not the soul of which it is.
Character traits indicate what is on the inside and whether it be of God or not.

By our speech, how we write, what we say tells allot about our relationship to God.

A Christian then is Christ like in character.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[wisdomseeker]

You ask that question knowing that I will not fit your idea of what the church is, therefore, I am discredited as a believer who has private interpretations and not really concerned with the spirit of what the church really is.

In my view the church is, refs: Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Rock = 1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

The church was founded upon a rock, as in the rock solid faith of Jesus Christ, Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Sometimes we use the Cliché that when troubles come is as if they may pour down like rain, and floodsas in great hoards at one time, winds as if trouble comes from any direction not knowing from where, and "beat upon the rock as if all those things are bent to destroy the rock or a house that is built upon that rock.

We are knowledgeable of the Jewish temple being destroyed not once but by twice, giving the fact that an earthly temple is not the solid rock, save Christ.

Christ in us will never be destroyed even if this physical temple is destroyed.

The rock? Psa 18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.

If I by my own interpretations can and do exercises the love of Christ to wards all my brethren, would that disqualify me from the truth?

What if I had all the backings of “a” church and not exercises the love of Christ to wards my breathren, would that qualify me?

Is it not the heart that God looks at?
1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

I may not have a physical church to attend, but I do have Christ the solid rock of my salvation in whom I trust and live.

I judge the character of the individual and not the soul of which it is.
Character traits indicate what is on the inside and whether it be of God or not.

By our speech, how we write, what we say tells allot about our relationship to God.

A Christian then is Christ like in character.

Peace>>>AJ

you must consider yourself to be mighty good to the point you dont need the Church Jesus Himself instituted.

Psalms 127:1 the prefigurement,
"Unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain. Unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain."

 

[look3467]

So it is your interpretation- one more among so many who also claim the same thing. The Holy Spirit gave the interpretation>>>wisdomseeker

There are three ingredients which are essential to gaining Wisdom, wisdomseeker.
These 3 are Knowledge; Experience; and Understanding.

Knowledge comes via earthly parents and Gods word.
Experience is the catalyst which ties all together
Understanding comes via the Holy Spirit.
Wisdom then is having good judgment based on all three above.

Having said that I will respond to your question:

I hope you realize that Jesus built a Church not churches with many different interpretations of His Word.>>>wisdomseeker

True statement: but in spirit. Churches are divisions of mankind’s making in trying to determine what God wants in mankind’s terms and conditions: Hence the differing beliefs.

I

hope you also realize that you should not come here with the attitude of thinking you know at all.>>>wisdomseeker

I don’t know it all, but one thing I know for sure, is that God is love and not what mankind thinks Gods love is.

The Church still here and has been for 2000 years. don’t let others tell you that the Church is wrong.>>>wisdomseeker

Others can say anything they want about the Catholic Church, but I won’t.
By understanding, I am wise not to condemn anybody and or organization, unless that organization harms and or kills people.

At least be respectful of the Church Jesus built.>>>wisdomseeker

Have I not been?

I am sure she knows more than you do.>>>wisdomseeker

I am grateful for the Catholic Church being an instrument in compilation of the word of God: the bible.
For it is God- breath with life and upon which one can find Him and receive of Him life everlasting.

I prayed for understanding and God did not disappoint me.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

you must consider yourself to be mighty good to the point you dont need the Church Jesus Himself instituted.

Psalms 127:1 the prefigurement,
"Unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain. Unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain."

I am grateful, appreciative and full of joy that God saw fit to save me inspite of myself.

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
The body here is the body of believers.

Wonderful quote, in that any earthen house built will not stand save that which is spiritual, that will last forever. the body of believers: the church.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[mercygate]

Could we please return this thread to zerinus and to the original topic?

Try to post in English, folks.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I am grateful, appreciative and full of joy that God saw fit to save me inspite of myself.

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
The body here is the body of believers.

Wonderful quote, in that any earthen house built will not stand save that which is spiritual, that will last forever. the body of believers: the church.

Peace>>>AJ

my advice to you is that you continue to seek the Truth. it seems you have a long way to go.
can the Bible be understood without the Church?

Peace

 

[look3467]

my advice to you is that you continue to seek the Truth.
can the Bible be understood without the Church?

Peace

Thank you for the advice, as truth is what I sought and God was gracious to wards me to satisfy my longings.

The bible has to be taken in faith to the simpliest absolute: that of Jesus crucified!

Paul wrote: 1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

After that, is up to the individual to seek truth!

Peace>>>AJ

 

[mark_a]

After that, is up to the individual to seek truth!

Who determines truth?

 

[look3467]

Who determines truth?

Truth is granted as the Holy Spirit deems it.
You see, not everybody is able to handle the word of God until they themselves have sought it in the experience of living.

God knows the intents of the heart and deals accordingly.

Nobody can say that they have a Conner on the truth, but what the Holy Spirit gives us to understand.

Yes, the church such as the Catholic Church is an instrument in the hands of God in that respect, as is all the rest of them.

The object is that the love of God be generated in the midst of all it.

That is an absolute since Jesus demonstrated it to perfection in the face of adversity, temptations and death.

Each one of us, if interested, may wish to delve deeper into our beliefs via the word of God and find to our amazement that there is more to the depth of Gods love than we can imagine.

Therefore, pray the Lord for understanding, whether it be a mite or an elephant in size.

Peace>>>AJ