What constitutes a traditional Catholic?

[mathematoons]

I’m new to the forum. What constitutes a traditional Catholic? It is just someone who accepts all Church teaching without question because we know it comes from God? Or is it someone who goes to the Latin Mass and follows all the extra pre-Vatican-II rules such as avoiding meat on Fridays?

 

[Will_S]

I’m new to the forum. What constitutes a traditional Catholic? It is just someone who accepts all Church teaching without question because we know it comes from God? Or is it someone who goes to the Latin Mass and follows all the extra pre-Vatican-II rules such as avoiding meat on Fridays?

Both.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Both.

Both and more.

It’s not so much ‘without question’, but rather, with full faith and trust. We’re not mindless sheeple but reasonable and informed people who fully affirm with that God-given reason the eternal and unchanging Truth which the Holy Catholic Church teaches.

We keep to many of the old traditions because they are righteous and helpful. They were ‘then’, and they are ‘now’; yet we do not deviate from what is taught ‘today’. IOW, we don’t insist that there was some ‘break’ in the past and try to claim that everything ‘now’ is wrong.

We LIKE Latin and incense and covering our hair (if women) in church, among other things. But we don’t insist that ‘everybody else’ needs to like them too. If we are asked, we’ll give reasons why we find these good. . .but we’re perfectly happy to follow these things without demanding that every other Catholic in the world follow them too. . .unless those Catholics WANT to do so.

 

[svid2]

Good answer, tantumergo. I consider myself traditional (not traditionalist) because I like traditional devotions, music, art and so on. When I go to an art museum, I even ask if they have a medieval collection. It certainly does not mean I reject Mass in the vernacular, guitars, or lay participation in the Mass; I’ll be the lector today - I LOVE it! It’s all just preference. Incense, candles? You bet. Pipe organs, stained glass windows? I SO wish they were affordable! My next trip to Chartres Cathedral? Not soon enough!

 

[SouthpawLink]

I’m new to the forum. What constitutes a traditional Catholic? It is just someone who accepts all Church teaching without question because we know it comes from God? Or is it someone who goes to the Latin Mass and follows all the extra pre-Vatican-II rules such as avoiding meat on Fridays?

To be a traditional Catholic, one must hold the Faith whole and entire. To that end, I suggest you check out the following sites:

sspx.org/sspx_faqs/suggested_additional_reading.htm

fisheaters.com/forcatholics.html

See also: latinmassmagazine.com/articles/articles_2001_SP_Ripperger.html

It’s highly recommended you follow the pre-conciliar disciplines and devotions.

Guitars, the laity taking the place of the Minor Orders, Holy Mass in the vernacular… all bad news; but that’s for another topic.

 

[Gregory_I]

one who reads the new in conformity to the old, and does NOT seek to conform ancient usage to modern sensibilities. For example, I interpret the ccc in accordance with trent and florence, not vice versa.

 

[Monica4316]

I’m new to the forum. What constitutes a traditional Catholic? It is just someone who accepts all Church teaching without question because we know it comes from God? Or is it someone who goes to the Latin Mass and follows all the extra pre-Vatican-II rules such as avoiding meat on Fridays?

in reality there’s no “traditional” or “non traditional” Catholic, i guess, since all Catholics should accept all Catholic Tradition. Sadly in our time it’s kind of complicated and many believe there’s a crisis going on in the Church.

Typically “traditional Catholics” are those who not only believe all the Church teaches (because all Catholics should do this, ideally), but those who support the Latin Mass.

btw I believe that avoiding meat on Friday is still a rule the added part is that if you’re unable to, you can substitute a penance, and avoiding meat is still preferred.

God bless

 

[Gregory_I]

in reality there’s no “traditional” or “non traditional” Catholic, i guess, since all Catholics should accept all Catholic Tradition. Sadly in our time it’s kind of complicated and many believe there’s a crisis going on in the Church.

Typically “traditional Catholics” are those who not only believe all the Church teaches (because all Catholics should do this, ideally), but those who support the Latin Mass.

btw I believe that avoiding meat on Friday is still a rule the added part is that if you’re unable to, you can substitute a penance, and avoiding meat is still preferred.

God bless

I would add that Traditional Catholics not only support all the Church ACTUALLY teaches in both her ordinary and extraordinary magisterium, they also are VEHEMENT opponents of all those false and modernistic, watered down theological ideas that the majority of todays theologians are attempting to pass off as traditional Catholic doctrine.

Things like:

Dogmatizing Baptism of Desire (It’s not a dogma, nor is it a sacrament)

Watering down the necessity of infant baptism (It actually cleanses from guilt and sin, it doesn’t ONLY make you a member of the church)

Distorting the view of original sin (Some are now saying original sin consists solely in the inherited consequences of original sin, like corruptibility, and death and a wounded nature; They completely forget, and often deny, the fact that it also consists in being made an enemy of God, abiding under his wrath, being a slave to sin, death and the devil, and inheriting the actual GUILT of Adam’s sin which is in each as his own)

Just a few examples. There are dozens more where modern day “Doctors of theology” Take plainly heretical views; especially pelagianism and semi-pelagianism. Just read anything by Karl Rahner.

 

[Love_Divine]

Or is it someone who …] Mass and follows all the extra pre-Vatican-II rules such as avoiding meat on Fridays?

Abstaining from meat on Fridays is still in effect, although some Congresses of Bishops permit Catholics to do additional penance on Fridays instead, such is the case in Canada.

 

[At_Trent]

imo, a Traditionalist accepts Dogma and Doctrine, as defined, at the time it was defined.

 

[laszlo]

I’m new to the forum. What constitutes a traditional Catholic? It is just someone who accepts all Church teaching without question because we know it comes from God? Or is it someone who goes to the Latin Mass and follows all the extra pre-Vatican-II rules such as avoiding meat on Fridays?

For a Catholic (traditional or contemporary) the most important is the acceptance of the Magisterium. This distinguishes a Catholic from the Easter Orthodox and from the Protestants.

As for the Liturgy the traditional Catholics prefer the Liturgy celebrated traditionally regardless of the form. This means for the Mass mostly Gregorian chant and pipe organ as music, priest leading the people and celebrant not presider, communion kneeling and to tongue.

A traditional Catholic also may follow other rules too, like the traditional full fast from midnight before communion, fast for lent, vigils, ember days (one meal two snacks no meat), abstinence for all Fridays, keeping all traditional Holy Days of obligation (Major feats of the Holy Virgin, Feasts of all Apostles and so on).

Still the most important and not compromise-able feature is the acceptance of the primacy of the Magisterium.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I’m new to the forum. What constitutes a traditional Catholic? It is just someone who accepts all Church teaching without question because we know it comes from God? Or is it someone who goes to the Latin Mass and follows all the extra pre-Vatican-II rules such as avoiding meat on Fridays?

As you can see by the replies, it varies by individual as to what a “traditional” Catholic is.

Many, if not most, use personal preference instead of what the Church actually Teaches.

 

[At_Trent]

Many, if not most, use personal preference instead of what the Church actually Teaches.

Could you provide an example of one of the “personal preferences” ? One that most trads embrace as you say ?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Could you provide an example of one of the “personal preferences” ? One that most trads embrace as you say ?

Have you read this thread?

Here is one example from this thread.

It’s highly recommended you follow the pre-conciliar disciplines and devotions.

Guitars, the laity taking the place of the Minor Orders, Holy Mass in the vernacular… all bad news; but that’s for another topic.

And to SouthpawLink, which “pre-conciliar” disciplines and devotions are you talking about? The Catholic Church has been a “post-conciliar” since the Council in Jerusalem held in the Book of Acts.

 

[At_Trent]

Many, if not most, use personal preference instead of what the Church actually Teaches.

I’ll try asking this way.

What Dogma or Doctrine do trads reject ? You seem to be stating such. So what Doctrine or Dogma that has been taught by the Church do “many, if not most” trads reject ?

I ask because trads tend to hold fast the Doctrines and Dogmas of the Church, which is quite the opposite of what you claim.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I’ll try asking this way.

What Dogma or Doctrine do trads reject ? You seem to be stating such. So what Doctrine or Dogma that has been taught by the Church do “many, if not most” trads reject ?

I ask because trads tend to hold fast the Doctrines and Dogmas of the Church, which is quite the opposite of what you claim.

I never made the claim that they reject Dogma or Doctrine.

All faithful Catholics are bound to follow all the Church Teaches, even in Disciplines. It is also wrong to claim that the Church has erred in its Disciplines as the Church, by definition, can never Teach error.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

I’m new to the forum. What constitutes a traditional Catholic? It is just someone who accepts all Church teaching without question because we know it comes from God? Or is it someone who goes to the Latin Mass and follows all the extra pre-Vatican-II rules such as avoiding meat on Fridays?

Cafeteria Catholic: Catholics who only accept Church teachings that they agree with - heterodox Catholics. Generally liberal

Cradle Catholic: born Catholic

Traditional Catholic: Orthodox Catholic who prefers the Mass in Latin. Generally conservative

(Normal) Catholic: Orthodox Catholic who prefers Mass in the vernacular. Generally moderate

Just my observations from being here.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I never made the claim that they reject Dogma or Doctrine.

All faithful Catholics are bound to follow all the Church Teaches, even in Disciplines. It is also wrong to claim that the Church has erred in its Disciplines as the Church, by definition, can never Teach error.

So are you saying many, if not most, who identify themselves as Traditional Catholics, are claiming that the Church has ‘erred in its disciplines’ and that they are thus implying the Church teaches error?

First of all, the Church cannot teach error on dogmatic or doctrinal points of faith and morals. But disciplines themselves ‘change’.

Second, what exactly do you mean by ‘disciplines’ that the Church say has taught since Vatican II? CITH, perhaps? As a Traditionalist I prefer COTT but since the Church has said CITH is legitimately received in whatever place has an indult for it, I can prefer COTT and even advance good reason for it, but I am NOT saying the Church is ‘teaching error’ by permitting CITH. To prefer a traditional devotion to a ‘contemporary’ one does NOT mean that I impugning the ‘contemporary’ as an error.

 

[At_Trent]

I certainly know what constipates a trad.

Too much pizza

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Both and more.

It’s not so much ‘without question’, but rather, with full faith and trust. We’re not mindless sheeple but reasonable and informed people who fully affirm with that God-given reason the eternal and unchanging Truth which the Holy Catholic Church teaches.

We keep to many of the old traditions because they are righteous and helpful. They were ‘then’, and they are ‘now’; yet we do not deviate from what is taught ‘today’. IOW, we don’t insist that there was some ‘break’ in the past and try to claim that everything ‘now’ is wrong.

We LIKE Latin and incense and covering our hair (if women) in church, among other things. But we don’t insist that ‘everybody else’ needs to like them too. If we are asked, we’ll give reasons why we find these good. . .but we’re perfectly happy to follow these things without demanding that every other Catholic in the world follow them too. . .unless those Catholics WANT to do so.

Wow…that is one of the best answers yet:thumbsup: I truly wish that we could all exist that way!