What constitutes being judgmental?

[josephback]

I was called judgemental by a friend today. It’s not the first time the label has been applied. When do we judge and when do we just accept folks for who they are? We all have flaws. Sometimes I feel that to have a conservative stance in religion and politics is wasteful. I despair that opposition to homosexual marriage will be taught to and seen by our grandchildren like apartheid and slavery are taught to us. We will be seen as the haters of the 21st century. Is rejection by the world just to be expected, or are we wrong?

I was also told by a Catholic friend when I joined that this site tends to be down on other religions. I myself feel no love towards the Reformation. Having come from it, I often feel anger. I also feel anger and frustration toward life and God. Does that play into “judgemental” attitudes toward others?

 

[Francie3]

Joseph, you’re upset and angry about what is wrong in this world and about anti-Christian attitudes and behavior in society and in politics. Jesus wasn’t happy and spoke out against what He kew was wrong, unjust, and blasphemous.
Does that make Him judgmental?
No. You see wrong and are opposed to it.
And yes, it’s frustrating because there seems so little you can do about it.

If people say you’re judgmental, that’s their perspective.
What’s right is right, what’s wrong is wrong. Some people just think whatever is popular is right.

Don’t let them get to you if they call you judgmental.
Keep your own compass set on God not them

Francie

 

[GratefulFred]

There should be some good answers coming.

In order to navigate our way through life we must make many judgments each day about what we think is right or wrong, good or bad.

Those who voted today made a judgment. That’s OK. But it would be judgmental to say so and so is an idiot because he did not vote the way we did.

We can say that same sex marriage is wrong in our judgment and provide reasons. But it is not OK to say so and so is going to H because he or she supports SSM. We can expect to be called jugmental for expressing our reasoned opinion by those who much prefer to live with moral relativism. That does make us judgmental because we are careful to not personalize it. It is so easy to tag someone as being judgmental when they disagree with us.

As for anger, we should all work on speaking the Truth in the Spirit of Love.

 

[Tietjen]

I was called judgemental by a friend today. It’s not the first time the label has been applied. When do we judge and when do we just accept folks for who they are? We all have flaws. Sometimes I feel that to have a conservative stance in religion and politics is wasteful. I despair that opposition to homosexual marriage will be taught to and seen by our grandchildren like apartheid and slavery are taught to us. We will be seen as the haters of the 21st century. Is rejection by the world just to be expected, or are we wrong?

I was also told by a Catholic friend when I joined that this site tends to be down on other religions. I myself feel no love towards the Reformation. Having come from it, I often feel anger. I also feel anger and frustration toward life and God. Does that play into “judgemental” attitudes toward others?

There is nothing wrong in declaring “something” as right, wrong, evil or good. As Catholics; however, we need to reserve our judgments when it comes to the person. IOW, we can say that homosexual acts are wrong, abortion is wrong, stealing is wrong; but where we need to curb our judgment is in saying that a homosexual is evil or is going to hell. That decision (judgment) is entirely up to God and it’s not our place to make such a declaration. We are free to speak out on the act, we are not free to condemn or label one of God’s creations as being evil.

Is your friend a parent? If so, ask your friend if he/she would allow their child to hang out with a kid that he/she suspects or knows sells drugs. If the answer is, “of course not” ask your friend how he/she came to that decision. Did he/she make a judgment call? If your friend says that he/she would allow their child to hang out with drug dealers, then I wouldn’t worry too much about what they think of you.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

I was called judgemental by a friend today. It’s not the first time the label has been applied. When do we judge and when do we just accept folks for who they are? We all have flaws. Sometimes I feel that to have a conservative stance in religion and politics is wasteful. I despair that opposition to homosexual marriage will be taught to and seen by our grandchildren like apartheid and slavery are taught to us. We will be seen as the haters of the 21st century. Is rejection by the world just to be expected, or are we wrong?

I was also told by a Catholic friend when I joined that this site tends to be down on other religions. I myself feel no love towards the Reformation. Having come from it, I often feel anger. I also feel anger and frustration toward life and God. Does that play into “judgemental” attitudes toward others?

My understanding: It is not being judgmental (in the bad way, which is the way I will use the word) to say that an action is objectively bad. It is being judgmental to claim to know the state of a person’s soul.

So it would not be judgmental to say that, to use one of your examples, homosexual activity is gravely wrong, and that those who engage in it are doing something gravely wrong. It is also not being judgmental to say that it is clearly gravely wrong, and so that it seems likely that many of the people who freely engage in it may be sinning. It is judgmental to say that either a particular person who engages in such activity or the group of people as a whole who do are certainly sinning and therefore going to Hell.

As for other religions, something similar applies. There is no judgement (of the bad, prohibited, judging a person’s soul kind - obviously there is some of the necessary kind) in saying that all other religions are wrong. Anyone who belongs to a particular religion says this. Likewise, it is not judgmental to say that an event that gave rise to another religion was objectively a bad thing - such as the reformation. Nor would it be judgmental to say that following certain teachings of certain other religions is dangerous, since following an incorrect teaching is necessarily objectively bad (varying gravity, depending on the teaching), and depending on knowledge (and whether the person was negligent in seeking knowledge) etc may be sinful. Hence it is not judgmental to say that being of the wrong religion presents dangers to salvation. All of this is just common sense.

But it would be judgmental to say that any particular member of another faith, or all members of another faith are in sin and going to Hell.

As a side comment, while I mostly read threads based on what shows up on the side bar and don’t frequent the non-Catholic religions subforum particularly often, it is not my experience that other religions are terribly often insulted here. Claimed to be wrong, yes, argued against, yes, but that should be pretty well expected on a Catholic forum since we by definition think any non-Catholic religion is incorrect on at least somethings (otherwise we’d belong to that religion). Of course, it could just be that I don’t read the right threads, or it could be that having many of the Catholics here jump in on a thread to argue against the relatively small number of non-Catholics taking the opposition position feels like an attack, and it almost certainly true that occasionally most of say something that’s not quiet as charitable as it should be, but I am not aware of wide-spread feeling that everyone else is evil and stupid.

For the record, I am also called judgmental (and heartless) occasionally. Mostly by a friend of mine after an argument proceeds to the stage where he says “but it’s an emotionally hard issue” and I respond “yes emotionally but not logically, so the answer is this and those people, while deserving of our sympathy, are wrong.” I usually respond to the accusation (from him, since he’s a friend) of being judgmental and heartless (and also closed minded, apparently) by calling him an overly warm and fuzzy guy who’s so open minded his brain has fallen out.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I was called judgemental by a friend today. It’s not the first time the label has been applied. When do we judge and when do we just accept folks for who they are? We all have flaws. Sometimes I feel that to have a conservative stance in religion and politics is wasteful. I despair that opposition to homosexual marriage will be taught to and seen by our grandchildren like apartheid and slavery are taught to us. We will be seen as the haters of the 21st century. Is rejection by the world just to be expected, or are we wrong?

You’ll have to help me out just a little with the scenario, because I don’t have a general answer. Is this where another person had a liberal political view, or were you warning them of their own behavior? Were you talking theology issues, social issues, personal sin? How did it come up? Were you having a philosophical discussion, or did you offer unsolicited commentary about the friend’s behavior.

Having an opinion of right and wrong is not what I usually consider “judgmental,” but how you come across is important. You may only have the best intent but if you come across that way you are going to push people away. So the idea of “I’m going to say what’s right and to hell with what people think,” is foolish. What’s the point in even opening your mouth if it is to push people away? So there are two parts to it; 1) do you have some unhealthy judgmental ways of thinking, and 2) how are you coming across to people? :tsktsk:

People don’t care what you know, until they know that you care. :hug3:

I suggest you ask the friend to help you isolate what part of what you said bothers them. Maybe it’s not the fact that you say something is wrong, but in the way you talk about people who do that. Or it could be your tone of voice. Or if you’re like me, I used to be told that I was talking down to people when I really wasn’t. The better friend this is, the more likely they will at least try to help you see what they see. Because by definition you can’t. But for God’s sake don’t get defensive or it’ll be worse than if you hadn’t asked. Be ready to hear what you hear, and be ready that it may or may not be something you can immediately fix. :knight1:

I was also told by a Catholic friend when I joined that this site tends to be down on other religions. I myself feel no love towards the Reformation. Having come from it, I often feel anger. I also feel anger and frustration toward life and God. Does that play into “judgemental” attitudes toward others?

God’s diversification plan. I honestly think the Church is stronger for it. I also think that the recent shift in Catholicism toward reading more scripture is partly inspired by Catholics who got shown up by Protestants who were better at quoting the Bible. Nothing like a little competition to keep us on our toes.

Also if anyone gives a child a glass of water in His name, then he will not lose his reward. And those who were driving out demons but weren’t in the same group as Jesus? “Whoever is not against us if for us.” Instead of saying, “look at that mess of denominations and they all are non-Catholic,” try, “look at how many people are lined up to help Jesus.” :dancing:

You never know; they may come around.

Alan

 

[Highwayhound]

I was called judgemental by a friend today. It’s not the first time the label has been applied. When do we judge and when do we just accept folks for who they are? We all have flaws. Sometimes I feel that to have a conservative stance in religion and politics is wasteful. I despair that opposition to homosexual marriage will be taught to and seen by our grandchildren like apartheid and slavery are taught to us. We will be seen as the haters of the 21st century. Is rejection by the world just to be expected, or are we wrong?

I was also told by a Catholic friend when I joined that this site tends to be down on other religions. I myself feel no love towards the Reformation. Having come from it, I often feel anger. I also feel anger and frustration toward life and God. Does that play into “judgemental” attitudes toward others?

Here are a few thoughts on being “judgemental”.

First, judgemental people use the word ‘judgemental’ to hammer down people who have a different point of view.

Second, it is not judgemental to assess actions as being moral or immoral.
Third, it is not judgemental to be taken back, shocked or perturbed by that which is objectively evil.
Fourth, it is also okay (and not judgemental) to understand even though you have forgiven another that the same person might just repeat their past sins.

Last, Archbishop Fulton Sheen used to say;
“Truth without love is cruelty, but love without truth is hypocrisy.”

God bless

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Here are a few thoughts on being “judgemental”.

First, judgemental people use the word ‘judgemental’ to hammer down people who have a different point of view.

Some people, judgmental or not, us the word “judgmental” for someone who comes across as condescending or self-righteous.

So I’m not going to buy into “it’s not only OK to be judgmental, it’s our Sacred Duty.”

It astounds me how hard it is to find someone willing to take Jesus at His word. Just because everyone around us waters down the Good News and turns it into “whatever we think, feel, and do, without regard to whether it goes along with the Living Word, Jesus will endorse it because we say it was our duty,” doesn’t mean we have to.

Jesus said, “do not judge.” Everyone tells me it’s impossible and Just Wrong not to judge. I guess Jesus was being sarcastic because, let’s face, He knew his little “sound bite” would confuse people for thousand of years. Others aren’t confused at all; they just contradict it and move on. It seems from the way I’ve seen these threads go on judgmentalism, that Jesus is just Just Plain Wrong on this. I think Jesus needs to be put on notice that He was wrong, and we have no intentions of even pretending to do what He said, much less imagine what it might be like if we did. At least a little child isn’t afraid to imagine a perfect world – the kingdom. :heaven:

And I love the words “putting the hammer down” because in this context, it so well conveys a desire for one person to dominate and control another. Notice, whenever Jesus really “put the hammer down” it was not against sinners, but the righteous, who were accurately reporting that Jesus’s followers were disrespecting Tradition. IOW they were telling the truth about their sins, just like we say we must. Oh yes, AFTER he saved her from righteous punishment and everybody else had left, he said, “I do not condemn you; go and sin no more.” Oooh, He really let her have it there, didn’t he? No, if you want to see some serious “putting the hammer down” then read Matt 23, and if you feel duty-bound to go around telling others about their sins, then maybe you can imagine what it would feel like to be the target of those words.

Alan

 

[mommy_k]

If what you are judging against a group that is going against something that is a Catholic Law such as homosexual marriage it is not judgemental. If you are judging an individual that does not follow exactly how you would do things-then it is judgemental. I try and remember that God is the only One that can see into the hearts of men and women and is the ultimate Judge. A great example of this is Jesus and Mary Magdalene . While others were condeming her-he saw her heart.
We are all human and sinners. We will be judged as we judge others.

 

[Crescentinus]

Michael Coren says things in a way that is better than what I can say about it.
youtube.com/watch?v=8gi2z0LAvGc&feature=plcp

 

[robwar]

Here are a few thoughts on being “judgemental”.

First, judgemental people use the word ‘judgemental’ to hammer down people who have a different point of view.

Second, it is not judgemental to assess actions as being moral or immoral.
Third, it is not judgemental to be taken back, shocked or perturbed by that which is objectively evil.
Fourth, it is also okay (and not judgemental) to understand even though you have forgiven another that the same person might just repeat their past sins.

Last, Archbishop Fulton Sheen used to say;
“Truth without love is cruelty, but love without truth is hypocrisy.”

God bless

That was so well put. Judgmental is being used to shut down the argument. Another poster above said it would be judgmental to think you know the state of another’s soul. That is the misunderstood line. Pointing out the evil or morally wrong things people do or promote to do is not judgmental. Pointing out to state of their soul would be.

 

[fhansen]

I was called judgemental by a friend today. It’s not the first time the label has been applied. When do we judge and when do we just accept folks for who they are? We all have flaws. Sometimes I feel that to have a conservative stance in religion and politics is wasteful. I despair that opposition to homosexual marriage will be taught to and seen by our grandchildren like apartheid and slavery are taught to us. We will be seen as the haters of the 21st century. Is rejection by the world just to be expected, or are we wrong?

I was also told by a Catholic friend when I joined that this site tends to be down on other religions. I myself feel no love towards the Reformation. Having come from it, I often feel anger. I also feel anger and frustration toward life and God. Does that play into “judgemental” attitudes toward others?

Jesus also said, "Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.”
God’s not telling us to turn off our brains, to tolerate anything and everything. Rather He’s telling us we have no right to condemn.

 

[josephback]

You’ll have to help me out just a little with the scenario, because I don’t have a general answer. Is this where another person had a liberal political view, or were you warning them of their own behavior? Were you talking theology issues, social issues, personal sin? How did it come up? Were you having a philosophical discussion, or did you offer unsolicited commentary about the friend’s behavior.

I think it was annoyance at politics that set things off, but it was just something that built up over time. I ended up criticizing them and some of their behavior, and they asked if I was their mother. I’m not trying to be anyone’s mother.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Michael Coren says things in a way that is better than what I can say about it.
youtube.com/watch?v=8gi2z0LAvGc&feature=plcp

The guy’s a jerk.

I’d seen enough at 2:05 I was ready to shut if off, but I watched the whole thing in case it got better, but it didn’t.

Except for his comments about abortions, basically the guy says we should increase the rate at which we scold Jesus’s friends and companions, for whom He gave His life on the cross. Jesus breaks bread at the table with sinners, this guy sits there in his pompous guise on his video throne and shouts names at them.

This guy is the epitome of what I consider Part of the Problem when it comes to mercy.

Unless … and ONLY unless … he’s talking about it in the context of self-examination. When he gets his splinter out of his eye, he can come help me and my buddies with our planks.

Alan

 

[Richard320]

Generally, speaking the truth to someone who doesn’t want to hear it.

Satan has a secret. It is the secret about his three primary strategies to destroy us.
If Satan can convince our culture to adopt the philosophy precipitated by these
secret strategies he can brainwash our children, disrupt our families, manipulate
our culture, and bring apostasy within the Church.
All the problems that we see today in society and in our church can be traced to
these three fundamental strategies. It is the basis of the politically correct
movement and of the heresy of individualism. These strategies are the fuel that
powers feminism, the engine that drives liberalism, and the vehicle of the postmodern worldview that dominates our world today and that contaminates the
Church.
These three secret strategies are:
• All opinions are equal
• Never judge anyone
• Never step on toes

Read the whole essay - especially the section on judging.saint-mike.org/warfare/library/wp-content/docs/secret.pdf

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Generally, speaking the truth to someone who doesn’t want to hear it.

Read the whole essay - especially the section on judging.

What whole essay? I read the part you quoted but didn’t see a link to more.

I found this part interesting:

“It is the basis of the politically correct movement and of the heresy of individualism. These strategies are the fuel that powers feminism, the engine that drives liberalism,”

First, the “heresy of individualism” is exactly the opposite of liberalism. Conservative say that America was founded on “rugged individualism.” IOW, we hold each person responsible for their behavior and in fact their own well being. So how can something promote individualism and liberalism at the same time? Maybe we need to find out what all these words are this author is using.

Feminism took off when the Rockefellers financed it. The purpose of feminism was to a) see that everybody, not just the men, pay taxes, and b) get government control of children at earlier ages.

Alan

 

[Richard320]

What whole essay? I read the part you quoted but didn’t see a link to more.

Fixed it. Here’s the link again: saint-mike.org/warfare/library/wp-content/docs/secret.pdf