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AKDee
Guest
I appreciate all the replies. If any other people have words of wisdom, advice, clarification I would much appreciate it.
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Genesis315
Guest
You may be thinking of this quote, which is incorporated into the Catechism:
1856 Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God’s mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation:
When the will sets itself upon something that is of its nature incompatible with the charity that orients man toward his ultimate end, then the sin is mortal by its very object . . . whether it contradicts the love of God, such as blasphemy or perjury, or the love of neighbor, such as homicide or adultery. . . . But when the sinner’s will is set upon something that of its nature involves a disorder, but is not opposed to the love of God and neighbor, such as thoughtless chatter or immoderate laughter and the like, such sins are venial.130
130 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh I-II,88,2, corp. art.
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Galnextdoor
Guest
I think the post above is the answer in a nutshell.
Anger by itself is not a sin. Jesus was really angry with the money changers.
If you are angry because a roommate doesn’t pickup after themselves, that is not a sin. If you yell at, scream, and demean your roommate that is a mortal sin, because it is directly against how Jesus teaches us to live. If you let your anger fester into a grudge, that is a mortal sin because it goes directly against loving your neighbor.
Grave matter is something that can do serious harm to yourself or another person, whether it is to their soul or physical person. This includes a person’s reputation (Love thy neighbor as thy self.)
Grave matter is something that can do serious harm to your relationship with God.
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Bookcat
Guest
Hum…
Yelling at a roommate - I suppose “could become grave” -say like you deliberately threaten their life or something serious…and if one lets anger fester into something “serious” like deliberately plan on how one is going to chop of their feet…well that yes is a good example of grave matter.
Often anger that is an immoderate outburst is often venial matter. And that yes might involve yelling.
Though if a person were to *deliberately *go into such a rage that it they can be considered to have lost their reason…then it is a different story.
If one deliberately desires to murder someone or seriously wound someone – such is gravely against charity.
One could note is when it leads to serious injustice or serious scandal…seriously offends charity …or hatred of God etc. Such are also grave.
I imagine more could be said …
Your confessor can assist you in judging such if needed.
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Galnextdoor
Guest
Raising your voice because you are upset is one thing, yelling at, screaming at, while being demeaning towards someone is a mortal sin, i.e. calling them names, saying or repeating mean things to hurt them because you’re angry, and other derogatory remarks. That is the type of behavior I was referring to.
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Bookcat
Guest
And that may be still under the category of “immoderate outburst” that moralists discuss.
People say - or even yell - angry stupid things when they have such an outburst.
Certainly to deliberately seek to *seriously *hurt the person via ones words would be grave. Where one offends charity or justice seriously.
But I do not think one ought to “simply say” that things said - or yelled - to hurt a person when one is having such an angry outburst is necessarily of the nature of “grave matter”.
One can discuss the specifics with ones confessor.
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eazyduzit
Guest
Who can be perfect? However didn’t Jesus say your righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees?
LaughingBoy1503
Well-known member
The Pharisees paid lip service to the laws and God but did not truly honor either in their heart’s. That is why Jesus called them hypocrites. Nobody can be perfect. I would hope any Christian would strive to love as God wants us to. Therefore, we would do our best to honor God and his commandments out of love. Love is the answer and God IS love.
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eazyduzit
Guest
You have just proved the truth of Rm. 7. But the solution in ch.8 is not to try harder
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eazyduzit
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catholic1seeks
Guest
What do we do with that? We take it for what it says: if you break one point of the law, you are a breaker of the entire law. That does not mean, however, that all sins are equal! James’ point is that we cannot be partial to certain parts of the faith; one sin is enough to be considered a sinner. But this does not mean that some sins are not worse than others – so worse that their very nature is incompatible with the life of grace. John in his letter says that not all sin is deadly, implying that there is at least one sin that kills the soul.
We get a little more insight into what these sins are in Paul’s writings, when he writes lists of activity incompatible with the Kingdom of God. James in chapter 3 says we all stumble. But sometimes a person can act against God in a way that causes him or her to forfeit salvation. Romans 11:22 says that persons can be cut off. Paul also says that we reap what we sow: from the spirit comes eternal life. If sin were all equal, it would make little sense for punishments to be different, or more or less severity, as Jesus expressed in his parables.
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catholic1seeks
Guest
God surely doesn’t want us to do our worst.
The Ten Commandments are not for Christians because they were part of the Old Law; the Ten Commandments are for Christians because they correspond to the Law written on the human heart, the Law of Love.
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Bookcat
Guest
Please - cease this discussion you guys. It is Off Topic.
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Bookcat
Guest
Such is a misunderstanding…
And off topic. So I will leave it at noting such.
Please everyone stay on topic.
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AKDee
Guest
Actually I’m kind of fascinated that non-Catholics chose to respond. I guess I figured mortal sin would pretty much fall into the Catholic domain and not interest non-Catholics, especially since my main reason for asking has to do with the sacrament of reconciliation.
LaughingBoy1503
Well-known member
What do you think?
Not to be rude but if you have something to say, start your own thread and say it. Are you implying Catholics are not Christians? Are you implying that we do not follow the 10 commandments? Are you trying to trap me into saying that God only wants us to do out best but we do not have to follow the ten commandments? Because following the ten commandments is part of doing my best. Have something to say? Say it outright. Not in a weasel type of way. Thank you.
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eazyduzit
Guest
I did not introduce the 10 commandments in this thread, and am not implying that Catholics are not Christians. What else would they be? Not trying to set a trap but trying to focus on one point at a time,What do you think?
Not to be rude but if you have something to say, start your own thread and say it. Are you implying Catholics are not Christians? Are you implying that we do not follow the 10 commandments? Are you trying to trap me into saying that God only wants us to do out best but we do not have to follow the ten commandments? Because following the ten commandments is part of doing my best. Have something to say? Say it outright. Not in a weasel type of way. Thank you.
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eazyduzit
Guest
I did not introduce the 10 commandments in this thread, and am not implying that Catholics are not Christians. What else would they be? Not trying to set a trap but trying to focus on one point at a time,What do you think?
Not to be rude but if you have something to say, start your own thread and say it. Are you implying Catholics are not Christians? Are you implying that we do not follow the 10 commandments? Are you trying to trap me into saying that God only wants us to do out best but we do not have to follow the ten commandments? Because following the ten commandments is part of doing my best. Have something to say? Say it outright. Not in a weasel type of way. Thank you.
LaughingBoy1503
Well-known member
Ok, then proceed. But on topic. What constitutes grave matter?
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Bookcat
Guest
1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.
The obligation of the Decalogue
2072 Since they express man’s fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations. They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. The Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.
2073 Obedience to the Commandments also implies obligations in matter which is, in itself, light. Thus abusive language is forbidden by the fifth commandment, but would be a grave offense only as a result of circumstances or the offender’s intention.
scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm
Of course the Ten Commandments will cover many things…that are not “listed by name there”…but which come under them.
The obligation of the Decalogue
2072 Since they express man’s fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations. They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. The Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.
2073 Obedience to the Commandments also implies obligations in matter which is, in itself, light. Thus abusive language is forbidden by the fifth commandment, but would be a grave offense only as a result of circumstances or the offender’s intention.
scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm
Of course the Ten Commandments will cover many things…that are not “listed by name there”…but which come under them.
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