What constitutes proper Marian devotion?

[mathematoons]

OK, I said I’d never come here again when I stormed out a few months ago, but I have a question no one I know seems to be able to answer.

What constitutes proper Marian devotion? I know we need to have some kind of devotion, and that she is our mother, but beyond that, it’s kind of vague.

I tried looking in the other recent Marian threads, but I found no answers there, just lots of arguing. All the arguing is the reason I post so rarely anymore. Everyone on those threads ignored the question.

There are those who say we can never love our Blessed Mother too much. But that is not true. If we love her more than Jesus, then that is idolatry. Most Catholics I meet, I’m sorry to say, do worship Mary, just like the Protestants say. (This does not make Catholicism untrue, of course, since worshipping Mary is not Catholic teaching.) My own priest said Mary is higher than Jesus because in Biblical times, the Queen Mother was higher than the king! Stuff like that gives Satan fuel to tempt me to go Baptist, as does much of the stuff about Mary I read in these threads. It’s getting so bad, I’m also tempted to forget about Mary altogether; after all (follow me closely here), I already have a mother, and I’m very close to her.

How is Mary different from any other holy person in the Bible? She was sinless, but so were Adam and Eve until they fell. She raised Jesus, but Joseph had a hand too. She heralded Jesus’s coming, but so did John the Baptist. I accept the Church’s teaching on her being the Queen of Heaven and all that (I accept all Church teachings), but how does all that relate to my spiritual life? She accepted God’s will, but so did every other saint.

And all that stuff about her intercession? A saint, by definition, is a person whose will is completely submitted to God’s. If I ask Mary, or any other saint, to intercede for me, God still has the final say, so they’re not going to be able to pray for something God doesn’t want. For this reason, I don’t ask anyone to pray for me, saint or not. What kind of God would allow a creature to change His plan?

I’m not speaking theoretically here. To make a long story short, I have gone overboard with Marian devotion, and God has given me clear signs telling me to stop going so far with it. (The details are not bad in themselves, but they would distract from the topic.) I have found that while Mary led me to Jesus after I converted, Marian devotion can very easily lead me away from Jesus. It’s supposed to lead me to Jesus, but it doesn’t seem to be doing that (except for the Rosary). “To Jesus though Mary?” What about to Jesus directly? We only have so much time each day, and time spent on Marian devotion is time taken from Jesus. I don’t think Jesus or Mary would want that.

Then there are the Protestants, who think any good feelings toward Mary are idolatry. I love Mary and the other saints. God arranged for me to have a relic of St. Anne (for those who say it should belong to the local church, they didn’t want it), and I’m so thankful for that. I know their extreme is not good either.

But there must be something in between. If there is not, then I may have to give up Marian devotion to save my soul. I know many will accuse me of pushing doubt, but such accusations will only prove to me that most Catholics really do worship Mary and don’t want to admit it. I’m sorry to speak so frankly, but I am running out of options.

Any rude comments will be reported. Don’t think I’m bluffing.

 

[LiseTravis]

Hi! I don’t have any answers to offer, but I’m praying that you find what you are seeking. God Bless you!

 

[fred_conty]

Years ago when I was in catholic grade school, we used to say a prayer every hour on the hour, “All for you, Jesus,Mary and Joseph”. So we paused and prayed every hour when the bell rang, to the holy family. I guess a great theological argument could be started about that. But I think that theology has its limitations and that the good intentions and love make up for what is lacking in our great theological system. I don’t know, but I believe God looks at our love not our theology when we speak to him.

Most people don’t know very much about their faith in a theological way. To a theologian they may say some really ignorant stuff. Although we shouldn’t remain in ignorance, there is a line.

Many have a difficult time expressing themselves, they just don’t know the words to use so they do the best they can. And then they are jumped on. Well, maybe we should do a better job of understanding and helping.

And then of course there are times when a person is misread, when they were thought to have said something when they didn’t.

I think a good bit of this is done when discussing Mary. “Born” catholics, those that say, “all for you Jesus, Mary and Joseph”, have grown up with May crownings, rosaries, scapulars, and Mary is just as real as aunt Harriet. It is easy to believe and love her.

For those who have come from some other tradition of belief, Mary is a new person in their life and one who has been treated as just some other bible person in the past. It is like meeting any new person, it takes a while to get acquainted and establish friendship as well as trust.

And for others, it is a different kind of experience, and at times not an easy one to accept.

And when apples begin to talk to oranges, then there is more dislocation of meanings.

I think each has to spend so time with this, especially good reading, and make adjustments and growth in the understanding of Mary in their life and the life of the church.

Just some thoughts.

 

[MaryT777]

It was my understanding that Marian devotion is not necessary. You can live a life as a Catholic without praying the rosary etc.
You would like to maybe become Baptist who deny the true presence? Why?
Mary.

 

[mathematoons]

It was my understanding that Marian devotion is not necessary. You can live a life as a Catholic without praying the rosary etc.
You would like to maybe become Baptist who deny the true presence? Why?
Mary.

No, I don’t want to be Baptist. But Satan tempts me with that periodically because I’m sick to death of the moral relativism and Mary worship I see among the Catholics I meet.

 

[Mark121359]

No, I don’t want to be Baptist. But Satan tempts me with that periodically because I’m sick to death of the moral relativism and Mary worship I see among the Catholics I meet.

Read this, it explains this Mary worship thing real well me thinks! And by the way, If you’re allowing Satan to tempt you about these things, shake free of him real quick,for he’s not too fond of Our Lady and he wants you to distance yourself from Mary!

patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2012/04/do-catholics-worship-mary.html

 

[Bitternolonger]

I am also still discovering what true devotion means. I think I am beginning to accept that what I am doing right now is enough for right now.

I also realized that Mary is there at nearly every event in the life of Jesus. So, I ask Mary if I may come along side her so that she may teach me to ponder in my heart the mysteries of Christ’s life. I want to know what it is like to love Jesus like she loves Jesus in her own heart. I ask her to teach me to love Jesus in that way.

I know from the Gospel that Jesus loved and adored his Mother. And I want to adore his Mother the way that he did.

I know that Mary is a intercessor to Jesus for our needs. But I don’t just want to ask Mary to intercede for my own needs. I want her to use everything that I am, everything that I do as she sees fit because I know that she will put it to use for the greatest glory to God.

In writing this of course, I am thinking about what I want my own Marian Devotion to be and not that I have acheived any of this yet.

 

[Mark121359]

I am also still discovering what true devotion means. I think I am beginning to accept that what I am doing right now is enough for right now.

I also realized that Mary is there at nearly every event in the life of Jesus. So, I ask Mary if I may come along side her so that she may teach me to ponder in my heart the mysteries of Christ’s life. I want to know what it is like to love Jesus like she loves Jesus in her own heart. I ask her to teach me to love Jesus in that way.

I know from the Gospel that Jesus loved and adored his Mother. And I want to adore his Mother the way that he did.

I know that Mary is a intercessor to Jesus for our needs. But I don’t just want to ask Mary to intercede for my own needs. I want her to use everything that I am, everything that I do as she sees fit because I know that she will put it to use for the greatest glory to God.

In writing this of course, I am thinking about what I want my own Marian Devotion to be and not that I have acheived any of this yet.

Beautiful! Go to her with a sincere open heart and talk with her! She’s listening, I guarantee you and she wants oh so much to bring you into a deeper love with her Son!

 

[JRKH]

Proper Marion devotion consists of the following.

1. Believe on and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
2. Accept the Marion dogmas as defined by the Catholic Church.
3. Accept and Love Mary as our Heavenly mother by virtue of us all being children of God through baptism and that it is her fervent desire to lead us to her son.

From here it is good to consider how a mother’s love manifests itself. Would a mother be angry if you go directly to the one that she wishes to lead you to? The answer here must be no.
Will Jesus, or the Father be angry if we speak directly to them without asking Mary to intercede for us? Again - the answer must be no. Jesus, in teaching us to pray, did not even command that we pray TO Him…but to pray directly to the Father.

The concerns you have expressed tell me that you should indeed draw away from certain devotions for they are acting counter to that which Mary desires for us. So - I believe it may well be Mary herself who is asking you to back off so that you do not, as you say, get led away from her Son.

So my advice is this…consider a mother’s Love. Consider what this Loving Mother would wish of you in relation to Her Son - who is our King…and that will be the proper level of devotion for you.

Peace
James

 

[mathematoons]

Read this, it explains this Mary worship thing real well me thinks! And by the way, If you’re allowing Satan to tempt you about these things, shake free of him real quick,for he’s not too fond of Our Lady and he wants you to distance yourself from Mary!

patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2012/04/do-catholics-worship-mary.html

I know all the stuff that link says. My problem is that Church teaching is so vague. Many Catholics overdo it. For a while, I was one of them. I put her above Jesus during that time, until God in His infinite mercy let me know that I was neglecting Him to focus on Mary. I think the reason Protestants say we Catholics worship Mary is because most Catholics really do worship Mary. You can say, “no, we honor her, we don’t worship her” all you want, but actions speak louder than words. “What you do speaks so loudly I can’t hear what you say.” Anyone who puts Mary above Jesus is worshipping her, end of story.

Your remarks about me “allowing” Satan to tempt me aren’t helpful. That’s a mean thing to say. Jesus was tempted, after all. It was Satan who led me to overdo Marian devotion. “If you really love Jesus, you’ll keep getting deeper and deeper into Marian devotion, for it is written ‘Behold your mother.’” I’m the kind of person who can’t do just a little bit of something. That’s why I’m overweight, for example.

Satan doesn’t care how I fall, he just wants me to fall.

 

[mathematoons]

Proper Marion devotion consists of the following.

1. Believe on and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
2. Accept the Marion dogmas as defined by the Catholic Church.
3. Accept and Love Mary as our Heavenly mother by virtue of us all being children of God through baptism and that it is her fervent desire to lead us to her son.

Check, check, check.

From here it is good to consider how a mother’s love manifests itself. Would a mother be angry if you go directly to the one that she wishes to lead you to? The answer here must be no.
Will Jesus, or the Father be angry if we speak directly to them without asking Mary to intercede for us? Again - the answer must be no. Jesus, in teaching us to pray, did not even command that we pray TO Him…but to pray directly to the Father.

The concerns you have expressed tell me that you should indeed draw away from certain devotions for they are acting counter to that which Mary desires for us. So - I believe it may well be Mary herself who is asking you to back off so that you do not, as you say, get led away from her Son.

This makes a lot of sense. It may very well be Mary herself who told me to back off.

So my advice is this…consider a mother’s Love. Consider what this Loving Mother would wish of you in relation to Her Son - who is our King…and that will be the proper level of devotion for you.

Peace
James

So does this mean it’s a good idea to just back away altogether? Thinking about your analogy, I had this friend as a teenager who loved to be in love, and if he had fallen in love with my mom (thank God he didn’t), she would have made sure he saw me without seeing her again.

 

[Mark121359]

.

Your remarks about me “allowing” Satan to tempt me aren’t helpful. That’s a mean thing to say…

I’m sorry you took it that way. It wasn’t meant in a mean fashion at all I assure you! But you mentioned “Satan tempting” and it sounded a little worrisome that’s all. He tempts us all doesn’t he!. Read what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say about Mary and see if that helps.There are some Catholics who go too far in their “worship” of Mary, but most Catholics as you suggest… No way!

 

[JRKH]

Check, check, check.

This makes a lot of sense. It may very well be Mary herself who told me to back off.

So does this mean it’s a good idea to just back away altogether? Thinking about your analogy, I had this friend as a teenager who loved to be in love, and if he had fallen in love with my mom (thank God he didn’t), she would have made sure he saw me without seeing her again.

Well - I would suggest that you pray on the matter and see - It may be that you do need to back off altogether for awhile.
I think you can take two approaches…You can begin stepping down your prayers to Our Lady and increasing prayer directly to God until you reach a comfortable balance point…OR…you can stop praying to our Lady altogether for awhile and then begin gradually increasing until you find your comfort level.

Peace
James

 

[mathematoons]

Well - I would suggest that you pray on the matter and see - It may be that you do need to back off altogether for awhile.
I think you can take two approaches…You can begin stepping down your prayers to Our Lady and increasing prayer directly to God until you reach a comfortable balance point…OR…you can stop praying to our Lady altogether for awhile and then begin gradually increasing until you find your comfort level.

Peace
James

But that’s just it. It’s not about finding my comfort level. It’s about living within God’s will for me. My decision to convert was a decision to quit following my own way and start following God, because I had screwed up my own life so badly that I haven’t wanted to follow my own will since (though, again, I’m still prone to wander and stray). If I wanted to follow my own will, I would still be into all 7 of the deadly sins and proud of it.

 

[ajecphotos]

I think you need to step back a bit and look at yourself and what you are saying.

Nothing wrong in ‘worshipping’ the mother of our lord. I guess he is proud of that. Does it mean we love god less? No.

Mary at Fatima said that we need to pray the rosary every day. In doing so, what are we doing? We are using Mary to pray to our lord. We are also accepting Mary as a loving heavenly mother.

Mary was chosen by god. She was the vessel of our lord. She has every right to be worshipped as such. I love our lord and I love Mary our blessed mother.

Don’t get too het up that you think satan is getting you to worship Mary more than our lord. As you ‘worship’ Mary you are also worshipping our lord. I don’t ever think that because I love and pray to our blessed mother that I am doing wrong. I never say to myself that I am putting her before our lord. God knows us and what we are doing. He knows our reasons etc.

Relax, pray.

 

[mathematoons]

There are some Catholics who go too far in their “worship” of Mary, but most Catholics as you suggest… No way!

Just read some of the Marian threads. Plus, most Catholics I have met barely even believe, and those who seem to believe put Mary higher than Jesus (from what they have told me). Those of us who question this are derided as “Protestants.” Some of us, sadly, will become what they tell us we are. Those who desert the ranks will then become prominent Catholic-bashers, because all they saw were Mary-worshippers.

Frankly, I think it’s Satan’s attempt to introduce goddess worship among the faithful.

 

[mathematoons]

I think you need to step back a bit and look at yourself and what you are saying.

Nothing wrong in ‘worshipping’ the mother of our lord. I guess he is proud of that. Does it mean we love god less? No.

Mary at Fatima said that we need to pray the rosary every day. In doing so, what are we doing? We are using Mary to pray to our lord. We are also accepting Mary as a loving heavenly mother.

Mary was chosen by god. She was the vessel of our lord. She has every right to be worshipped as such. I love our lord and I love Mary our blessed mother.

Don’t get too het up that you think satan is getting you to worship Mary more than our lord. As you ‘worship’ Mary you are also worshipping our lord. I don’t ever think that because I love and pray to our blessed mother that I am doing wrong. I never say to myself that I am putting her before our lord. God knows us and what we are doing. He knows our reasons etc.

Relax, pray.

At least you admit that you worship Mary. But it is only your feelings that tell you that it is not wrong, and the heart is deceitful above all things (Jeremiah 17:9). Read what the Church teaches about idolatry. I will pray for you to repent.

 

[ajecphotos]

At least you admit that you worship Mary. But it is only your feelings that tell you that it is not wrong, and the heart is deceitful above all things (Jeremiah 17:9). Read what the Church teaches about idolatry. I will pray for you to repent.

Lol. Repent?

Nothing wrong in worshipping Mary the mother of our lord. It’s not idolatry as I don’t worship Mary as the one and only! She deserves to be worshipped ‘as the mother of our lord’ just like our lord worshipped his mother too.

I think you have been brainwashed by some thing or someone as it is right to pray to our blessed mother in a true and devoute way. Look at Padre PIo. He prayed ardently to Mary. He said the rosary many times a day. Was he wrong?

Plus, the heart is only deceitful if you don’t understand what you are doing and why you are doing it!

 

[JRKH]

Lol. Repent?

Nothing wrong in worshipping Mary the mother of our lord. It’s not idolatry as I don’t worship Mary as the one and only! She deserves to be worshipped ‘as the mother of our lord’ just like our lord worshipped his mother too.

I think you have been brainwashed by some thing or someone as it is right to pray to our blessed mother in a true and devoute way. Look at Padre PIo. He prayed ardently to Mary. He said the rosary many times a day. Was he wrong?

Plus, the heart is only deceitful if you don’t understand what you are doing and why you are doing it!

We do not worship Mary. We venerate her. Worship is reserved for God alone.

There are Latin terms that specify the differences. However I am not familiar enough with them to get into it.

The bottom line at present is that your avenue of approach to the subject is not likely to be helpful to the OP.

Peace
James

 

[mathematoons]

Lol. Repent?

Nothing wrong in worshipping Mary the mother of our lord. It’s not idolatry as I don’t worship Mary as the one and only! She deserves to be worshipped ‘as the mother of our lord’ just like our lord worshipped his mother too.

I think you have been brainwashed by some thing or someone as it is right to pray to our blessed mother in a true and devoute way. Look at Padre PIo. He prayed ardently to Mary. He said the rosary many times a day. Was he wrong?

Plus, the heart is only deceitful if you don’t understand what you are doing and why you are doing it!

Idolatry is the worship of what is not God. If you worship Mary, then you are making her an idol. If you see nothing wrong with this, then you are the one who has been brainwashed. Padre Pio did not worship Mary. He really did honor her. He did not put her above Jesus. That would be worship. You have already told me that you worship Mary.

You sound like the very kind of person I’m having problems with. I question whether it’s right that so many Catholics put Mary above Jesus, and you get angry and say rude things.