What constitutes stealing music?

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JChapel

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Lately I’ve really been cracking down on how I listen to music online to avoid stealing from artists. The way I see it, if I have no plans of eventually paying for the song, yet I choose to listen to it, even through a legal service like rhapsody, I’m effectively stealing the song. Hence no YouTube music videos, restricted Rhapsody listening and no song clips/previews, although to keep my music tastes fresh and eclectic, Pandora seems to work well, and I see it as morally sound because the music comes at me randomly.

So… this begs the question. Am I being over-scrupulous and what constitutes stealing this kind of thing?
 
If an artist or label puts a music video or song on youtube you can watch it as many times as you want and don’t have to buy it…you are being over scrupulous…anything you know the artist puts out there you can listen to…it’s pretty easy to tell if the artists or someone else put the stuff out there…I find with some artists i have listened/watched to their videos on youtube and it makes me more likely to purchase their cd, but i certainly feel no obligation to do so…
 
JChapel said:
Lately I’ve really been cracking down on how I listen to music online to avoid stealing from artists. The way I see it, if I have no plans of eventually paying for the song, yet I choose to listen to it, even through a legal service like rhapsody, I’m effectively stealing the song. Hence no YouTube music videos, restricted Rhapsody listening and no song clips/previews, although to keep my music tastes fresh and eclectic, Pandora seems to work well, and I see it as morally sound because the music comes at me randomly.

So… this begs the question. Am I being over-scrupulous and what constitutes stealing this kind of thing?
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For Rhapsody, you PAY. PAYING is not stealing. If the artist is putting videos on YouTube, they want you to view it. It is not stealing.
 
Catholic90 said:
For Rhapsody, you PAY. PAYING is not stealing. If the artist is putting videos on YouTube, they want you to view it. It is not stealing.
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Fair enough, but what if someone else puts up the artist’s music videos / live performances, as is usually the case? What if you are using the free version of Rhapsody (limited to 25 plays/month)?

I guess I just want a hard-and-fast rule to follow. 😃
 
Isn’t listening to Pandora like listening to terrestrial radio? It’s free to the listener, but somebody is paying. On commercial radio it’s the advertisers. When I listen to commercial radio, I pay little attention to the advertisers or their products. I have no specific intention to buy a product, but I don’t feel guilty about listening.

On PBS a relatively small certain segment of listeners donate, but the programming is open to all listeners. I supported PBS for 20 or more years. Now I use those funds to support what I consider ‘more worthy’ venues on the internet, like EWTN. I still tune my car radio to a PBS station, but I don’t feel guilty. Maybe I should, but if they go away because I no longer contribute, I’ll live with it.
 
If you own it either physically in your hand or on your hardrive without paying money for it when its not offered for free, then its stealing.

If you think watching an artist’s youtube channel is stealing, then surely so is listening to it on free radio?
 
If you think watching an artist’s youtube channel is stealing, then surely so is listening to it on free radio?
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I dunno, maybe I just haven’t defined things or thought this out enough.

But even to a rule like:
LemonAndLime said:
If you own it either physically in your hand or on your hardrive without paying money for it when its not offered for free, then its stealing.
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There are still exceptions. Take Grooveshark, for example.
 
Well, if you’re looking for exceptions, that just makes it harder.

youtube. I can only trust a video put up by a real company.

If you are sure it is free to listen to then don’t worry about certain internet sites. If you are not sure, look them up on google or whatever search engine you use to get the details. You could type in the name of the site plus the word piracy which should bring up an article or two either confirming they are pirates or not.

This is the right thing to do. Anybody can be fake on the internet. There’s too much anonymous nonsense not to be concerned that what they offer is legit.

Peace,
Ed
 
LemonAndLime said:
…
If you think watching an artist’s youtube channel is stealing, then surely so is listening to it on free radio?
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I think the radio station pays for a license to play copyrighted music under certain constraints [from ASCAP I think]. The license fees are apportioned out to participating artists under some formula.
 
Wait, you wont even listen to music on youtube because you think its ‘stealing’?

You do realize that the artists put their own music up.
 
If you’re downloading music via torrents…You’re stealing.

If you’re simply watching Youtube video’s…You’re not stealing.
 
Fledgling said:
If you’re simply watching Youtube video’s…You’re not stealing.
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That still seems kind of… off, considering that you could listen to a song on YouTube many times and never buy the CD / MP3. I guess if I get too paranoid I can always get a Rhapsody subscription.
 
JChapel said:
That still seems kind of… off, considering that you could listen to a song on YouTube many times and never buy the CD / MP3. I guess if I get too paranoid I can always get a Rhapsody subscription.
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You have to understand that Youtube is a public domain.

Copyrighted material is quickly took down by WMG.

Listening to a song is different than downloading and burning it to CD to sell etc.

You’re ok brother:thumbsup:
 
JChapel said:
That still seems kind of… off, considering that you could listen to a song on YouTube many times and never buy the CD / MP3. I guess if I get too paranoid I can always get a Rhapsody subscription.
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Artists post their own music up there for a reason. So if they’re okay with it, you should be too.
 
BlueShadow123 said:
Artists post their own music up there for a reason. So if they’re okay with it, you should be too.
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Yes, but it’s not always the artist. Sure, if I see Sony / EMI / Universal logos and an official looking page, that’s all fine and dandy, but I generally only see that sort of thing coming from modern, mainstream, groups. As you dip into the obscure, most tracks are just user-posted album rips, which is where I see at least a potential moral objection.
 
JChapel said:
Yes, but it’s not always the artist. Sure, if I see Sony / EMI / Universal logos and an official looking page, that’s all fine and dandy, but I generally only see that sort of thing coming from modern, mainstream, groups. As you dip into the obscure, most tracks are just user-posted album rips, which is where I see at least a potential moral objection.
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Youtube does a great job at removing things that don’t belong. Also too, if you have a problem with it, then only listen to music on youtube that WAS posted by the artist. 👍
 
JChapel said:
Lately I’ve really been cracking down on how I listen to music online to avoid stealing from artists. The way I see it, if I have no plans of eventually paying for the song, yet I choose to listen to it, even through a legal service like rhapsody, I’m effectively stealing the song.
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Why in the world would you think it stealing? It seems those yelling “piracy” about kids violating copyright statutes have gotten you confused. If you’re not actually removing someone’s property from them, you’re not stealing. If it’s a legal service, than you’re not violating statutes.

If it’s on youtube, the musicians want you to listen to it (else, they could easily have it removed). You have to hear something for free before you would consider buying it. They hope you’ll buy the track, but you’re not obligated to. If you want to support them to encourage them to make more music, or if you want a higher quality audio track, go buy it. But, don’t feel the least bit guilty if you listen to it but don’t buy it. You’re not stealing and you’re not breaking any laws.

If you quote any of this post, then you are stealing from me if you don’t send me $9.99.
 
Steel_Pinwheel said:
Why in the world would you think it stealing? It seems those yelling “piracy” about kids violating copyright statutes have gotten you confused. If you’re not actually removing someone’s property from them, you’re not stealing. If it’s a legal service, than you’re not violating statutes.

If it’s on youtube, the musicians want you to listen to it (else, they could easily have it removed). You have to hear something for free before you would consider buying it. They hope you’ll buy the track, but you’re not obligated to. If you want to support them to encourage them to make more music, or if you want a higher quality audio track, go buy it. But, don’t feel the least bit guilty if you listen to it but don’t buy it. You’re not stealing and you’re not breaking any laws.

If you quote any of this post, then you are stealing from me if you don’t send me $9.99.
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Oh please. What’s “legal” about youtube?

news.viacom.com/news/Pages/youtubelitigation.aspx

It’s not the servivce that’s illegal, it’s the fact that they have allowed illegally obtained videos and music to be downloaded in the past, and making lots of money off that. When the artist “Prince” removed his videos from youtube, some people cried over it. Now, a few people have downloaded some of his videos under a vague “criticism” excuse.

Unless the video has the name of the musician and/or his current recording company, odds are it’s there illegally. What youtube allowed was wrong: they let stolen material onto their system and when caught, were told to have it removed.

The same thing happens with the media company I work for. Someone tells us our books are on some ‘file sharing’ site and we contact them to have it removed. And believe me, this has happened more than once.

Be careful. Too often, stolen music and/or videos ends up on places like youtube.

If the artist wants to push their own work, then you should go to yourfavoriteartist.com and find it there.

Peace,
Ed
 
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