What could heaven possibly be like?

[Doxus]

The bible is not the Church’s only source of information. Sola scriptura is not our practice. We use other types of revelation and tradition in our teachings.

So what alternative source of revelation tells you that heaven is a place of eternal bliss? Walt Disney?

 

[dshix]

So what alternative source of revelation tells you that heaven is a place of eternal bliss? Walt Disney?

Heh, no. The suggestion that I get my religious ideas from a secular source (Disney) is ludicrous and unnecessary.

I honestly think you should submit a question on the AAA forum as to what the Church’s teaching on this is, as they could probably give you a better answer than I could.

 

[Doxus]

The AAA seems to refuse to answer questions from non-Catholics, even when those questions are sincere.

 

[dshix]

The AAA seems to refuse to answer questions from non-Catholics, even when those questions are sincere.

That is not true, nor is it even well founded. Rather, I think that the benefit of answering non-Catholics is more than answering Catholics.

 

[Giants]

This is a very good question.

I’ll have to ask you to do a kind of out-of-mind idea. We do indeed have love for our loved ones here on earth. Also, I do indeed think it possible that we may have a certain type of sadness for them in Heaven if they are in Hell. I do not know that for sure, however, no having read deeply on the subject.

What I do know is that the Beatific Vision of God will be so absolutely, incomparably, entirely, fantastically, beautifully, incredibly great. It would kill us if we were to see it now. As perfect men and women in Heaven, we will find joy in the glory of God in a way that we can’t even comprehend now.

Therefore, even if there is a degree of sadness as to the loss of other loved ones, the Beatific Vision will absolutely overshadow it.

I think you have to concede that everything you’re proposing here is an “out-of-mind idea.” A plane of reality where everything is perfectly wonderful, except when it isn’t. And even then, it is. And any attempt to comprehend it with our limited, human understanding, is necessarily self-defeating.

Granted, there are some propositions in this world that defy intuition and basic understanding, while being true, nonetheless. Much of what we know in quantum physics falls into this category. But we know they are true because they are testable. What you’re proposing can’t be understood beyond the most rudimentary level. And it’s completely untestable.

Notwithstanding this, I still don’t feel that you’ve truly attempted to grapple with this question of relationships. Even while walking back your earlier claim that “we will not be able to be unhappy” to a half-concession that we’ll feel “some degree of unhappiness” that’s completely overshadowed by the Beatific Vision, I’m sensing a true lack of emotional content.

Imagine that a loved one is being tortured in some despotic prison on the other side of the world. Contact is impossible, as is the idea that you might see them again. All you know is that they spend every waking moment enduring horrors perhaps best left to the imagination.

Now imagine your emotional state can be completely and forever ameliorated by taking a single pill. Any fear, grief, or unhappiness - just gone - they might as well be nutritional deficiencies. None of the facts of the situation would change, of course. Your loved one is still at the mercy of sociopaths, whose lone goal is to inflict a maximum amount of pain while keeping their subject alive to endure it. But you do have The Pill.

So again, what does it mean to the value of your relationship with your loved one that you would take a pill that would completely inoculate yourself to any negative emotional reaction connected with their suffering? Because in heaven, you’re not even given the option of taking The Pill.

 

[johnnyjones]

We can not wrap our minds around eternity (at least I can’t). I would imagine if one was to “live forever” even in a spiritual disease free body some form of newness might be desired, activities etc. That may sound strange but the Lord says there will not even be things like marriage in heaven. The bliss must be so intense that it is unfathomable.

HE also says , “in my Fathers house there are many mansions.” That is translated to mean “places to abide”. That’s wild! Can you imagine these spiritual homes? I can’t. Again, it’s just too much to bring into my reality but I know when God does something, it is staggering. I hope to see my mother and brother. I wonder what they are doing? It would be painfully sad if I didn’t see them there (God willing I’ll make it).

I wonder about these near death experiences. Many are so different. Who knows.

 

[Bezant]

You don’t understand. We can’t even comprehend what KIND of joy Heaven is. It is like trying to imagine living in a 4 or 5 dimensional world.

That is, essentially, what I tried to express.

We will not be bored, for God is so infinite and the joy of Heaven is so infinite that boredom cannot exist.

We will not experience monotony because we will experience time in a different way (if there is time at all, this subject is still in dispute) and because of how Heaven is made, we will not be able to be unhappy.

The best way to misunderstand Heaven is to try to put human and temporal limitations to it. As soon as you do that, Heaven is no longer the most happy place in existence.

If we agree that the human perspective is too limited to comprehend heavenly bliss, how can we understand anything about heaven but through our eyes?

I can hardly stand in a queue for more than ten minutes. But I know that food, love, and money make me happy, among other things. They are temporal things, but they do give me a taste of what eternal happiness is like.

 

[cheezey]

All of these human descriptions of heaven are made simply because we are human and that’s how we understand.

…The owner of the mansion suddenly invites us in but we need to go somewhere to clean up first. So we go somewhere for a clean-up first, then we are led into an unbelievably beautiful place to live forever.

…an amazing new frame of reference to a heaven that no one can ever describe sufficiently to us poor planetary creatures. We have cleaned the crud off and we are now ready for a newer, larger, lighter, type of beautiful, eternal matter in the Presence of our Creator.

Angels boring? Are you guys nuts or something? You haven’t an inkling. “Eye has not seen nor ear heard what is in store for us.”

That’s the best I can explain tonight.

Sounds good to me!!!

 

[RCinColo60]

We can not wrap our minds around eternity (at least I can’t). I would imagine if one was to “live forever” even in a spiritual disease free body some form of newness might be desired, activities etc. That may sound strange but the Lord says there will not even be things like marriage in heaven. The bliss must be so intense that it is unfathomable.

HE also says , “in my Fathers house there are many mansions.” That is translated to mean “places to abide”. That’s wild! Can you imagine these spiritual homes? I can’t. Again, it’s just too much to bring into my reality but I know when God does something, it is staggering. I hope to see my mother and brother. I wonder what they are doing? It would be painfully sad if I didn’t see them there (God willing I’ll make it).

I wonder about these near death experiences. Many are so different. Who knows.

The mansion I want to live in is the one where all the animals are . First & foremost my pets. And also any animals who were abused in this life. I want to spend a large chunk of eternity just loving on them. I think God will let me do that while worshipping & adoring Him at the same time.

And of course I’m looking forward to being with my parents again. I think they’re up there right now taking care of all our pets who have passed on

 

[cheezey]

The mansion I want to live in is the one where all the animals are . First & foremost my pets. And also any animals who were abused in this life. I want to spend a large chunk of eternity just loving on them. I think God will let me do that while worshipping & adoring Him at the same time.

And of course I’m looking forward to being with my parents again. I think they’re up there right now taking care of all our pets who have passed on

I f you do this -and I pray not too soon, of course - say hello to my mother. because she’ll be tended the animals, too!!

 

[Bob_Crowley]

If Heinlein’s right about it it sounds like a dreadful place. All that bureaucracy, and those snooty angels…

The chief characteristic of heaven will be joy. Simple as that.

The chief characteristic of hell will be despair. Simple as that.

To get personal, I remember way back when I was getting a bit restive about finding a wife. After some fruitless searching, my weary old pastor said, “Look, why don’t try something like Christians without Partners (a then extant local Christian group for singles). That way you’re both looking for the same thing!”

Now I’ve had a fair number of spiritual experiences over the years, but precisely as he said “Christians without Partners”, this sense of joy just hit me. It only lasted a couple of seconds, and it’s the only time I’ve really felt it, but it was absolutely bubbling.

I knew beyond doubt, as soon as that “joy” hit, I was going to meet my future wife there.

To cut a long story short, the second time I went to one of their meetings, I met my future wife. We’ve been married now for over twenty years.

I think heaven broke through when the pastor spoke, even if only for a couple of seconds. What we call the beatific vision will be a continous sense of joy, with no bureaucrats. Where Heinlien got the idea of “snooty angels” I’m not sure. His own limited imagination I suppose. And I did read a few of his SF books years ago - they seemed to be aimed at younger readers, as far as I could see.

If you want a vision of hell, think of the survivors of Auschwitz staring out through the wires. Then imagine the twin pillars of fire over Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Put the two together, and you’ve got a visual warning.

God has often use the Jews for an example - left to live in peace when they did the right thing, but sent into exile by the Babylonians when they got slack, dispersed by the Romans after they crucified Christ, hounded down the centuries wherever they’ve gone, and the focus of Arab and Moslem anger today. Yet they’ve had this enormous influence on history, far beyond their numbers.

They’ve experienced both blessing and curse, good and evil, life and death, which is the same choice God offers all of us.

Deuteronomy 30:19 NIV “This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.”

I think their survivors staring out through the barbed wire were conveying a message from God. If you keep going the way you are, this is the world you’re going to make, with something far worse to follow.

 

[RCinColo60]

I f you do this -and I pray not too soon, of course - say hello to my mother. because she’ll be tended the animals, too!!

Aw, I bet they’re all having a blast up there . I can’t wait to join them

 

[Robert_Sock]

“Just as a blind man is unable to form any idea about colors, or a deaf person to fathom what it means to hear sounds… so the body cannot comprehend the delights of the soul… For we live in a material world, and the only kind of pleasure we can understand is that experienced through our body. But the joys of the spirit are everlasting and ceaseless. There is no resemblance of any kind between the enjoyments of the soul and those of the body.”
–The twelfth-century philosopher-rabbi, Maimonides