What dear friend, do you find strange about Catholicism?

[Memaw]

*Marian devotion, to outsider eyes almost to the exclusion of Christ…I’ve read that she knows Jesus better than any human so she can bring our petitions to Him and while I may see your point, Jesuz knows me better than any one, so He knows my heart and since Be does, I can go directly to Him, with no other heavenly mediator needed.
*That a human agent is necessary to receive the grace of God by his performing a ritual on my behalf.
*That the church is spoken of almost as much as Christ…I must be a part of an organization…the “true church” to please God…so many other organizations make the same claim.
*I just can’t accept a sacrificial priesthood modeled after the Levitical priesthood.
*rites and rituals needed to receive Gods grace…that grace is somehow measured out and dispensed by the performance of rites and rituals.
"Papal infallibility… To name a few.

Just because “outsiders” misunderstand our love and devotion for Christ’s Mother, doesn’t mean we are going to push Her back like they have. She is the most important prayer partner we could ever have. You have no idea what you are missing. God has sent Her to us on several occasions, Lourdes, Fatima, Guadalupe, etc, so HE must think she is still very important for us. You will never lover her more than her Divine Son does.
The Catholic Church IS Christ! You totally misunderstand that too. Jesus established it for our protection against the wiles of the Devil. HE gave us the seven Sacraments, including the Holy Priesthood from the Last Supper on, Apostolic Succession. Divine Authority protected by the Holy Spirit thru the Pope.( Papal Infallibility) (Even so called "bad Popes’ never harmed the teaching authority of the Catholic Church.) Over 2.000 years of history going back to Jesus Christ. What other denomination can claim all that and PROVE it thru history.??? The Catholic Church has outlived kingdoms , dictators, rulers of ever kind and will outlive all others till the end of time as Jesus promised. Like Peter said, “Lord where would we go, YOU have the words of Eternal life!” God Bless, Memaw

 

[Memaw]

Depends on your definition of strange. I find the Trinity strange. I find the Blessed Eucharist strange. I find God made Man strange. I find His death strange. Now don’t get me started on the Resurrection!
We must use our best intellectual endeavours to probe these “mysteries” yet rely on the foolishness of our Faith for our salvation.
Issues of Church bureaucracy; wealth; personal failures; pale into insignificance against the “strange” of its basic teachings.
However as Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.”

Mysteries are only “strange” if we think we can fully understand them. That’s why they are called Mysteries, because we are not able to fully understand them. I love God’s Mysteries. I love pondering them. Their awesome. Faith itself is awesome. It takes Faith to accept what we cannot understand, and I trust God in all things. Sometimes our “best intellectual endeavors” interfere with our accepting God’s Mysteries. I love reading about the simple Faith of some very Holy Saints. God Bless, Memaw

 

[In_His_Grace]

Yes. And please don’t take offense, but why do many Catholics seem bent towards superstition and sign seeking. Observing the images of Mary or Christ in overpasses and grilled cheese sandwiches etc. Then hundreds flock to the overpass to be close to the holy water stain. When I went to Mexico this behavior seemed to be even more intense amongst the Catholics. Is this as tawdry and offensive to you as it is to me?

I understand completely what you are saying. My wife is a 48 year old Filipino cradle Catholic. She spent the first 40 years of her life in a remote, poverty stricken area in the southernmost part of the Philippines until she came to the USA 8 years ago to marry me. Her religion is a mixture of Catholicism, superstition, and the occult.

 

[JonNC]

How we bicker and are not united in our beliefs.

Goodness. That’s not strange at all, Fran. Look at Lutherans.
Put 4 Lutherans from 4 different Lutheran synods in a room, and you’ll get 5 different opinions.

Jon

 

[Bonnie]

Why do you assume I have not been doing that for years?

Because I’m not a mind reader.

 

[johnnyc176]

How we bicker and are not united in our beliefs.

The Catholic Church is perfect as Christ founded it. Us?..not so much. Just like children in a family there are some who do not like being told what and what not to do even if it is Jesus doing the telling.

Nothing new or strange about that…

‘After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.’

The Catholic Church has been dealing with protestantism from the beginning when Christ founded it.

 

[frangiuliano115]

Goodness. That’s not strange at all, Fran. Look at Lutherans.
Put 4 Lutherans from 4 different Lutheran synods in a room, and you’ll get 5 different opinions.

Jon

From 4 different Lutheran synods. 4 different opinions. Okay.

Catholics are supposed to be ONE holy, catholic and apostolic church. Not 4 different churches.

We have problems understanding very basic things like what saves us. Is Mary supposed to be worshipped? etc. I was on a thread when i first got here in July that was about how you MUST be devoted to Mary to be saved.

So, it’s like we’re all under this big umbrella, but we don’t agree. I know priests who don’t agree with each other. I know people who read the same pp from the CCC and come up with different answers.

I think it’s okay to have differing opinions on some questions. Like, what does it mean to keep holy the Sabbath - but on what saves us?? There are catholics here who believe their own good works save them - and they think this is what the catholic church teaches.

Fran

 

[Seekerjn316]

Just because “outsiders” misunderstand our love and devotion for Christ’s Mother, doesn’t mean we are going to push Her back like they have. She is the most important prayer partner we could ever have. You have no idea what you are missing. God has sent Her to us on several occasions, Lourdes, Fatima, Guadalupe, etc, so HE must think she is still very important for us. You will never lover her more than her Divine Son does.
The Catholic Church IS Christ! You totally misunderstand that too. Jesus established it for our protection against the wiles of the Devil. HE gave us the seven Sacraments, including the Holy Priesthood from the Last Supper on, Apostolic Succession. Divine Authority protected by the Holy Spirit thru the Pope.( Papal Infallibility) (Even so called "bad Popes’ never harmed the teaching authority of the Catholic Church.) Over 2.000 years of history going back to Jesus Christ. What other denomination can claim all that and PROVE it thru history.??? The Catholic Church has outlived kingdoms , dictators, rulers of ever kind and will outlive all others till the end of time as Jesus promised. Like Peter said, “Lord where would we go, YOU have the words of Eternal life!” God Bless, Memaw

Thank you for stating your beliefs, but it really does little in “answering” my objections…I kind of figured Catholics believe stated beliefs…I still find them strange and such beliefs not supported by scripture nor reason.

 

[frangiuliano115]

The Catholic Church is perfect as Christ founded it. Us?..not so much. Just like children in a family there are some who do not like being told what and what not to do even if it is Jesus doing the telling.

Nothing new or strange about that…

‘After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.’

The Catholic Church has been dealing with protestantism from the beginning when Christ founded it.

I’m not sure what you mean by your last sentence; however, let me say this.

If I walk into a particular denominatin of a Baptist church, 99% of its members will agree on what their church teaches. If I walk into a Nazarene church, 99% of its members will agree with what that denominatins teaches.

Can we say this about Catholics??

 

[frangiuliano115]

Many catholics believe the church (small c) and Christ are one. I refer them to CCC no. 169 but it does little good. One believes what one believes. As far as Mary, many believe you must worship her to be saved. It’s all very interesting. Jesus’ message seems simple enough to me - I must be wrong…

 

[meltzerboy]

Since you ask, the thing that seems strange to me is why a human priest must stand daily at an altar to offer a “a sacrifice at his hands”. If one is to believe and rest in the finished work of Christ, then it would seem well to avoid all appearance of adding to it.

Second is the need for a separate priesthood. The reason for setting aside the Levitical priesthood was because of sin and a because a sinful people could no approach a holy God. But now that sin has been atoned for and put away forever and we are no longer separated from God as in the OT then why do we still need a separate priesthood to do spiritual things for us?

I don’t understand it.

Who says a “sinful people could not approach a holy G-d”? Certainly not Judaism. Priesthood atonement in the Hebrew Bible was not the main means of atoning for sin. Atonement is, and always has been, primarily an individual matter according to Judaism. Only for unintentional sins was the priesthood and (animal) sacrifice needed, not for intentional sins. Even for the former, those who were poor and not able to travel to the Temple were allowed to atone by grain rather than blood sacrifice. Further, seeking forgiveness directly from others whom we have wronged is the principal means of atonement if the sin was not committed directly against G-d.

 

[frangiuliano115]

Who says a “sinful people could not approach a holy G-d”? Certainly not Judaism. Priesthood atonement in the Hebrew Bible was not the main means of atoning for sin. Atonement is, and always has been, primarily an individual matter according to Judaism. Only for unintentional sins was the priesthood and (animal) sacrifice needed, not for intentional sins. Even for the former, those who were poor and not able to travel to the Temple were allowed to atone by grain rather than blood sacrifice. Further, seeking forgiveness directly from others whom we have wronged is the principal means of atonement if the sin was not committed directly against G-d.

How were intentional sins handled?

John’s baptism was for intentional sin. Those people knew they wanted to repent.

But baptism wasn’t around from the beginning.

 

[meltzerboy]

How were intentional sins handled?

John’s baptism was for intentional sin. Those people knew they wanted to repent.

But baptism wasn’t around from the beginning.

Intentional sins against others might be forgiven by seeking forgiveness from people who were wronged and repenting, that is, changing our behavior toward them. Intentional sins against G-d Himself might be forgiven by means of individual prayer. This is the same approach today according to Jewish teaching.

 

[ChaosGamma]

Nothing. It’s the only faith that makes perfect sense to me.

Certainly.

But surely I can’t be the only person who has ever walked back to his pew after receiving Holy Communion and thought “I just swallowed God. That’s weird.”

This is my issue as well. He was against the hierarchial requirements put forth in Judaism… It was understood he preached against the need of a temple, where sacrifices and rituals occurred and layers and layers of requirements needed to come to God…those he came to remove.
We didn’t exchange one set of rituals for another set of rituals…We now have access to God without the he need of rituals performed by another on our behalf…I do T understand why more layers of barriers are placed between us and Godl?

I don’t know how Jesus could be against the hierarchical requirements or ritual or any other parts of the Law… since He Himself instituted them. Seems more strange to me that He would first require all that ritual stuff and then do completely away with it all.

Thanks, when I was in Europe we visited numerous elaborate churches. I have to admit it did not do much for me, I rather was aghast at the thought of peasants being taxed to the hilt to build golden edifices. I am afraid fancy churches often keep people at bay since churches of all denominations have a (maybe not always justified) reputation of money,money money

And the temple and the tabernacle weren’t fancy and expensive? They were even expressly commanded to be made that way by God Himself. And largely constructed from materials donated by the common folk.

It is my take that He came to fulfill the Law and that He was the ultimate sacrifice. I tend to beleive that He did not come to start a new religion , rather to change men’s hearts and make His dwelling there.

“Spirituality without religion is like flesh without bones. Religion without spirituality is like a dusty old skeleton.” Can’t remember where I heard that, but I’ve always liked it.

 

[adrift]

This is my issue as well. He was against the hierarchial requirements put forth in Judaism…

Was He? Really? What evidence do you base this on especially since He tell them to"do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you" ?Matthew 23:3 Jesus didn’t oppose the hierarchical stricter as God instituted it. What Jesus objected to is “For they preach but they do not practice. They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they will not lift a finger to move them”

It was understood he preached against the need of a temple, where sacrifices and rituals occurred and layers and layers of requirements needed to come to God…those he came to remove.

Where did He preach this? Luke 2:49 seems to contradict your statement. Sacrifices were made in the Temple were fulfilled in the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus. Jesus said that He did not come to abolish but to fulfill Matthew 5:17

We didn’t exchange one set of rituals for another set of rituals…We now have access to God without the he need of rituals performed by another on our behalf…I do T understand why more layers of barriers are placed between us and Godl?

Strange It doesn’t match with what Jesus said
Luke 22:19
John 20:23
Matthew 28:19
James 5:14
All rituals ordered by Jesus our mediator to God 1 Timothy 2:5

 

[guanophore]

Many catholics believe the church (small c) and Christ are one. I refer them to CCC no. 169 but it does little good. One believes what one believes.

It’s all very interesting. Jesus’ message seems simple enough to me - I must be wrong…

I think it is because Catholics believe that Jesus only founded ONE CHURCH. There is not one church with a “small c” and another with a “big C”. He only has one Church.

It is yet one more false dichotomy that you have created.

 

[Miriam1947]

Many catholics believe the church (small c) and Christ are one. I refer them to CCC no. 169 but it does little good. One believes what one believes. As far as Mary, many believe you must worship her to be saved. It’s all very interesting. Jesus’ message seems simple enough to me - I must be wrong…

I call BS. No Catholic who has a clue will ever worship Mary.

Are you protestant?

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

I’m not sure what you mean by your last sentence; however, let me say this.

If I walk into a particular denominatin of a Baptist church, 99% of its members will agree on what their church teaches. If I walk into a Nazarene church, 99% of its members will agree with what that denominatins teaches.

Can we say this about Catholics??

Having been a ex protestant I somehow disagree with that 99% of Baptists or whatever the denomination that belong to the same church agree on the same things. Just not my experience at all. Of all the protestant Bible studies I have attended the opinions on what scripture means varies greatly. No to mention private revelation that differs from person to person. But this may not be the case in more of the mainline protestant churches, but it is very common in the american protestantism non-denominational, pentecostal, just Jesus and me type of churches . I think Catholics tend to be more unified in beliefs, more just tend to be un catechized and do not know what to believe or do not care to learn what The Church teacher.

But on the original post… I do find it strange to kneel in from of a statue while praying. I know this does not equal worshiping the statue and I do get it, it is a sign of respect. Just like kissing a picture of a deceased loved one does not mean you are worshiping them, using a statue to remember the saints that went before us is perfectly okay. But I still am uncomfortable with does this. No offence to anyone who does… that is not my intention at all. If The Church says it is fine, it is fine. But coming from a protestant background, I guess I am just still not use to it and I find it a bit strange.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

This is my issue as well. He was against the hierarchial requirements put forth in Judaism… It was understood he preached against the need of a temple, where sacrifices and rituals occurred and layers and layers of requirements needed to come to God…those he came to remove.
We didn’t exchange one set of rituals for another set of rituals…We now have access to God without the he need of rituals performed by another on our behalf…I do T understand why more layers of barriers are placed between us and Godl?

Baptism is a ritual, and Jesus himself told us to do it. So is The Eucharist and Christ himself told us to do it. God obviously does not have a problem with some rituals. God spit on some mud and rubbed it in a mans eyes and he was able to see. That sounds like a ritual… He was Jesus, he could have just said “Now be able to see” and the man would have. We have documents from The Early Church explaining how to perform certain rituals. That means that they were done since the beginning. You may feel it is a barrier between people and God but I sure dont. It helps my relationship with God to receive The Sacraments. I feel closer to him. These “Rituals” are not a barrier at all.

As for Hierarchial requirements , God appointed 12 men to the office of Apostle and they appointed overseers (Bishops) and Deacons and Presbyters (Elders, Priests) And it is all in scripture. There has to be leadership or The Church would be a free for all with everyone just believing whatever they wanted to believe. What kind of governing body do people who are againts “The Catholic Church Hiearchy” want? What do they think God would want instead of what we have now?

 

[Bonnie]

But on the original post… But coming from a protestant background, I guess I am just still not use to it and I find it a bit strange.

I had some trouble with it too, but got over it. Then I had a back problem for several years that kept me from kneeling at all, then I got old. In other words, once I’m on my knees, it’s a bit of a struggle to get up again. I can use the pew in front to help me up, but I’d be nervous about using the flimsier prie-dieu or the statue itself.