What dear friend, do you find strange about Catholicism?

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=adrift;13509793]I was agreeing with the statement
That we don’t pray to the dead because God is the God of the living.
Indeed God IS a God of the living [John 4:23-24]

I take it from your post that your not a Catholic?

Have you per change ever read in the bible the books of Maccabees?

Here’s a site

http://drbo.org/chapter/46012.htm

I suggest to you book 2; Chpt. 12: verse 41-16

God Bless you,
Patrick
 
Indeed God IS a God of the living [John 4:23-24]

I take it from your post that your not a Catholic?

Have you per change ever read in the bible the books of Maccabees?

Here’s a site

Douay-Rheims Bible, 2 Machabees Chapter 12

I suggest to you book 2; Chpt. 12: verse 41-16

God Bless you,
Patrick
Patrick I do not believe you have understood me. I have no idea what your understanding is but from your post it is obvious we are not communicating. 🤷
BTW the moderator is speaking to you about fix your quotes. My suggestion to you is to hit quote type underneath it and leave it alone do not erase. Perhaps it would behoove you to read this before you post using the quote system anymore.[Quotes and Quoting](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php ?t=19771)
 
guanophore;13510999 [QUOTE said:
]Keep reading your Augustine, benhur, because if you do you will come to appreciate how Catholic he is. 👍
Again, everyone reads Augustine as in their corner.

I would say Augustine is betwixt C and O/P.

Blessings
 
Okay, then here is what the apostles say:
1Pt.1:23- “Being born again… by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.”
Jms1:18- “Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth…”
Phil.2:16- “Holding forth the word of life…”
Acts 11:14- “Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.”

Because of the teaching of the apostles, we understand that the life is in the living word of God.
Indeed we do! But we do not exclude all of their other teachings about what is necessary to be saved. The life is in Christ, and all that He did and taught. He taught that we are to be baptized, and to eat of His Body and Blood, or there would be no life in us.

One of the deficits of modern pentecostalism is that it is separated from the Apostolic practices from whence it developed after the link was broken during the Reformation. The Apostolic practices were lost, and a new tradition was developed based only on what is in the Bible, so the Traditions that the apostles taught in practice were lost.
Now, what about the flesh? Even the flesh of Jesus? What life was in His flesh? It was still human and mortal.
There is life in His flesh. His flesh is no longer mortal, but glorified. He commanded us to eat of HIs Flesh and drink His blood. We do this sacramentally in the Eucharist. He never meant that HIS flesh was of no avail, since it is HIS flesh that has paid the price for our sins on the cross.

He was talking about the carnal and limited thinking that the disciples were doing. One cannot understand the mysteries of God with a finite, fleshly, human mind. It is beyond us.
Code:
If it was immortal than He would not have died. If we were at the very foot of the cross and actual drops of the blood fell on us, would that communicate life to us? No it would not.
You can’t determine this, eazyduzit. God can save whoever He wants, However He likes. Perhaps some of those soldiers were touched by His blood and converted. Don’t put limits on what God can do.
Code:
What then is the source of life? It is as St. Peter says in 2Pt.1:4- "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises  God's word] that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature..."
Certainly God’s Word is a great source of life. My life was transformed when I started reading, studying, and praying scripture. But THE word is a person, and it is in Him (not the text) that life is found. It is, as the Apostle says, in becoming partakers of the divine nature that we have life.
Code:
The the Last Supper, you are correct, the word used for remember is "anamnesis" which carries with it a personal connotation rather than memory of events which lines up with 1Cor.5:7 which says that our Passover is now a person and not an event.
It is both about a person and an event. It is a ritual enactment that is designed to bring us into participation in the event. When He says “do this” he means to “make” or “perform” an action. Just like the Jews “made” the passover supper.
Code:
This illustrates a basic difference in  the way we respond to the Gospel. We just have to respect each side is looking at the same thing but seeing different levels. One sees it on a fleshly and literal level and the other sees a spiritual and metaphorical level.
I think not, eazyduzit. It is not necessary to give up that Jesus literally gave us His body and blood to see the spiritual and metaphorical level.

In accusing Catholics of understanding Scripture “on a fleshly level” you are basically saying that, if we don ot interpret it as you do, then we are not spiritual. It seems rather insulting, really. Especially in the light of so many centuries of the Church interpreting the passages the way the Apostles taught.
I hope you you would admit that what I present also has some scriptural logic and legitimacy. We will never come together on this, but the best we can do is to try to understand each others reasoning for what we believe.
Definitely. I don’t think that the perspectives are necessarily exclusive. Certainly Jesus meant for us to “eat” his words as well as perform the anamnesis.
 
Again, everyone reads Augustine as in their corner.

I would say Augustine is betwixt C and O/P.

Blessings
We do all interpret through our filters. But one must take into account the context. Augustine was thoroughly Catholic, and practiced the Catholic faith, believed in Sacraments, Real Presence, Papal authority, etc.
 
We do all interpret through our filters. But one must take into account the context. Augustine was thoroughly Catholic, and practiced the Catholic faith, believed in Sacraments, Real Presence, Papal authority, etc.
👍
He was incredible… like Jerome. I think his genuiness (if that’s a word) attracts many Christians!
 
We do all interpret through our filters. But one must take into account the context. Augustine was thoroughly Catholic, and practiced the Catholic faith, believed in Sacraments, Real Presence, Papal authority, etc.
Hi g,

We also interpret through our filters as to just what was Catholic and her sacraments back then. So today’s Catholic context is not quite the same as back then. Maybe the same is true for the Protestant context(that it can change,evolve). St. Augustine speaks out of his time and circumstances.

Blessings
 
Hi g,

We also interpret through our filters as to just what was Catholic and her sacraments back then. So today’s Catholic context is not quite the same as back then. Maybe the same is true for the Protestant context(that it can change,evolve). St. Augustine speaks out of his time and circumstances.

Blessings
I would say that Augustine speaks beyond his time and circumstances, but also within them. The CC was completely sacramental from before the NT was completed. I will agree that the way the Sacraments were practiced has changed in some ways, but when we read about the celebration of the Mass with Justin Martyr, it is clear that Augustine embraced the faith that was written.

JUSTIN MARTYR

Converted A.D. 133, Martyr A.D. 165. “A disciple of Apostles” (Ep. ad Diogn.); “A man not far from the Apostles, either in time or in virtue” (S. Method, in Phot. Cod. 247).

S. Justin speaks of the consecrated elements, as not being common bread or common drink (above, pp. 92; 144); he believed that our Lord by “the fruit of the vine” meant real wine (above, pp. 134–136); and that the consecrated elements nourished (p. 144).

“We, after we have thus washed him who is persuaded and has assented to our belief, lead him to those called brethren, where they are assembled, that we may with earnestness make common prayers for ourselves and the enlightened [baptized] person, and all others every where, that it may be vouchsafed to us, having learned the truth, to be found, in deeds good administrators and guardians of the commandments, that so we may be saved by an everlasting salvation. Having ceased from the prayers, we greet one another with a kiss; then bread and a cup of water and wine are brought to him who presideth over the brethren, and he, receiving them, sendeth up praise and glory to the Father of all, through the Name of the Son and the Holy Spirit, and maketh at much length an Eucharistic prayer for having had these things vouchsafed to him. When he hath ended the prayer and thanksgiving, the whole people present join in with one voice, saying, Amen (but Amen is in Hebrew, ‘so be it’). He who presideth, having made this prayer, and all the people having assented, those called among us ‘deacons’ give to each of those present to partake of the bread, and wine and water, over which thanksgiving has been made, and carry it to those not present.
“This Food is amongst us called Eucharist, whereof no one may partake, save he who believeth that what is taught by us is true, and hath been washed in that laver which is for the remission of sins and to regeneration, and liveth as Christ hath delivered; for we do not receive It as common bread or as common drink, but, in what way Jesus Christ our Saviour, being through the Word of God Incarnate, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so also have we been taught that the Food, over which thanksgiving has been made by the prayer of the word which is from Him (from which [food] our blood and flesh are by transmutation nourished), is the Flesh and Blood of Him, the Incarnate Jesus. For the Apostles, in their records which are called the Gospels, have delivered that Jesus so commanded them, that He, having taken bread and given thanks, said, ‘Do this in remembrance of Me. This is My Body;’ and likewise, having taken the Cup and given thanks, He said, ‘This is My Blood,’ and gave it to them alone. Which also, wicked devils imitating, delivered to be observed in the mysteries of Mithra. For that bread and a cup of water are placed in the rites of the initiated, with certain words subjoined, ye either know, or can learn.
“Henceforward we ever remind one another of these things; and we, who have means, succour all who are needy, and are ever united to one another. And over all our oblations we bless the Creator of all things through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday all who live in city or country meet together, and the memoirs of the Apostles or the writings of Prophets are read, as the time permits. Then, when the reader has closed, he who presides admonishes and exhorts in a sermon to the imitation of these noble deeds. Then we all rise together, and send up prayers: and, as we said before, when we have done prayer, bread is brought, and wine, and water: and he who presides utters prayers and thanksgivings to the best of his power, and the people join in with one voice, saying, Amen: and those things over which the Eucharistic prayer has been said, are distributed and received by each, and are sent to the absent by the Deacons.”

This is the same structure of the Mass that we still follow today. It has been handed down from the Apostles.
 
=adrift;13511604]Patrick I do not believe you have understood me. I have no idea what your understanding is but from your post it is obvious we are not communicating. 🤷
BTW the moderator is speaking to you about fix your quotes. My suggestion to you is to hit quote type underneath it and leave it alone do not erase. Perhaps it would behoove you to read this before you post using the quote system anymore.[Quotes and Quoting](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php ?t=19771)
Yea, I KNOW; what I DON"T know is what I am either doing incorrectly OR not doing?

So if you’d care to share what this means, I’d be most happy to correct it:thumbsup:

If and WHEN I erase a portion of a quote; it is because space is needed to reply to it. Am I correct in understanding that the space limits [6,000 key strokes] includes the POST we are replying too? This is my understanding at present.

God Bless you, and Thanks,
Pat
 
=adrift;13511604]Patrick I do not believe you have understood me. I have no idea what your understanding is but from your post it is obvious we are not communicating. 🤷
BTW the moderator is speaking to you about fix your quotes. My suggestion to you is to hit quote type underneath it and leave it alone do not erase. Perhaps it would behoove you to read this before you post using the quote system anymore.[Quotes and Quoting](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php ?t=19771)
FYI: I clinked on the “Quotes and Quoting and only got a blank page?”

God Bless,
Patrick
 
Okay, then here is what the apostles say:
1Pt.1:23- “Being born again… by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.”
Jms1:18- “Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth…”
Phil.2:16- “Holding forth the word of life…”
Acts 11:14- “Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.”

Because of the teaching of the apostles, we understand that the life is in the living word of God.

Now, what about the flesh? Even the flesh of Jesus? What life was in His flesh? It was still human and mortal. If it was immortal than He would not have died. If we were at the very foot of the cross and actual drops of the blood fell on us, would that communicate life to us? No it would not. What then is the source of life? It is as St. Peter says in 2Pt.1:4- “Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises God’s word] that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature…”

At the Last Supper, you are correct, the word used for remember is “anamnesis” which carries with it a personal connotation rather than memory of events which lines up with 1Cor.5:7 which says that our Passover is now a person and not an event.

This illustrates a basic difference in the way we respond to the Gospel. We just have to respect each side is looking at the same thing but seeing different levels. One sees it on a fleshly and literal level and the other sees a spiritual and metaphorical level.

I hope you you would admit that what I present also has some scriptural logic and legitimacy. We will never come together on this, but the best we can do is to try to understand each others reasoning for what we believe.
MY friend, if I might interject here:)

IF i’m understanding your point ?], it is that the BIBLE is “the source” [through Christ of course] for eternal life?

While this is a correct statement; it IS correct only partially and then also conditionally.🙂 Here are a few reasons why.

The Bible is a TOOL of thee Church; NOT the Church being a tool [reliant on] OF,[and only of, the Bible. There is historical, logical and even biblical evidence of this reality.

In “crossing the “T’s” and dotting the “I’s” I have to take issue with this hi-lighted statement. Respect is necessary; BUT ought we NOT to give the utmost respect to “the” [always singular] per defined issue truth?”.

Is there no grave moral obligation to seek The Truth?

Pope Benedict XVI said this: "There cannot be your truth and my truth or there would be NO truth [my emphasis].

Father Hardon, one of the most highly respected theologians of the 20th Century shared this:

**“Truth is the condition of grace; it is the source of grace; it is the channel of grace; it is the divinelyordained requirement of grace.”
**

God Bless you,

Patrick
 
The Catholic Church does not, and has never taught ‘praying to the dead’. I have never met a Catholic in their right mind who prays to the dead.
You say you are a former Catholic. Not sure what church you belonged to, but it wasn’t Catholic.
Next question?
:cool:
Your last statement called into question the faith of thousands of past and current members of those churches. I do not care if you question my faith and beliefs but to do so to those who are not here to respond is just wrong. Apologize.
 
Your last statement called into question the faith of thousands of past and current members of those churches. I do not care if you question my faith and beliefs but to do so to those who are not here to respond is just wrong. Apologize.
I am having trouble understanding your post. Who’s faith are you referring too? I don’t see how the post you are responding to mentions any Church but the Catholic Church which you stated prayed to the dead. What is being pointed out to you is that it is not a Catholic Teaching. Scripture does not teach that people are unaware of us. It teaches the opposite. Jesus preached to the dead. If they did not know what was occurring it would be meaningless. The Witch of Endor summoned the Spirit of Saul. I have other scripture but I don’t think it will convince you of your untenable position.
 
I am having trouble understanding your post. Who’s faith are you referring too? I don’t see how the post you are responding to mentions any Church but the Catholic Church which you stated prayed to the dead. What is being pointed out to you is that it is not a Catholic Teaching. Scripture does not teach that people are unaware of us. It teaches the opposite. Jesus preached to the dead. If they did not know what was occurring it would be meaningless. The Witch of Endor summoned the Spirit of Saul. I have other scripture but I don’t think it will convince you of your untenable position.
Did you read the post I quoted? In an earlier post I stated I was an ex catholic. By stating that these churches were not catholic insults both congregations. JustaServant owes them an apology.

Now as for your post,the witch of en-dor summoned Samuel. His first words were “Why have you disturbed my rest?” That does not sound like he was aware of what was going on.
 
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