What dear friend, do you find strange about Catholicism?

[Peter_J]

As an Orthodox, i find it strange that Roman-Catholic clergy shave their beards. I must say because of it your bishops and priests look fake to the majority of Orthodox laity. It is just an ugly tradition to me. A tradition which came from, i don’t know where, because Christ and Apostles had beards, and portraits of early popes, they had beards.

I get what you’re saying, but you are quite behind-the-times: we haven’t had the custom of all our priests being clean-shaven in many, many years.

 

[Peter_J]

the Lord’s words (This is my body…") are not “simple”, as was posted. In simplest terms at the Last Supper one sees the elements and one sees the Lord’s body, as separate entities still, requiring some explanation. I feel figurative, symbolic language is the the simplest explanation, and transubstantiation, not as simple, the other. That is all I was saying.

Blessings

It seems to me that the explanation that would be given by, say, a Baptist is “simple”. RC explanations of the Eucharist are not – which I guess partially explains why it took so many centuries (Note: RCs draw mainly on St. Thomas Aquinas, who live more than 12 centuries after Christ).

 

[Peter_J]

It seems to me that the explanation that would be given by, say, a Baptist is “simple”.

Not that I want to stereotype anyone of course. :getholy:

 

[Memaw]

Hi Jack (could not quite say “Hi JC”),

The way you worded the underlined may indeed show your sentiment, but I thought we, the church, are grafted onto the earlier dispensation, sons of Abraham, even of the nation Israel. Not sure the visible church will rule as much as the elect (those ‘called out’ , the ‘church’ will rule , and it seems that thru the visible New Jerusalem, the seat of David, the Lord on the throne. For sure we rule with Him (along with OT saints) but not as "church’ or thru "church’.

But open to suggestions however, for indeed this topic is not much talked about.

Blessings

All in Heaven are united to Jesus Christ in HIS Eternal TRUTH, which is what we are all seeking thru the Sacraments and teachings of Christ’s Catholic Church on earth. HE prayed that ALL be ONE in HIM. God Bless, Memaw

 

[blanchardman]

Thank you. I prefer a discussion where there is more agreement than not. I do agree the church will be everlasting I believe it to be part of the “new covenant”. The old testament saints were saved by faith in a promised messiah.

 

[PJM]

Saving faith has a certain quality to it. It is a faith that works, a faith that obeys.

"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him. If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.…John 14:22

This is a very Calvanistic position, Eazy. It is a rather modern innovation on the concept of salvation that developed during the Reformation in the 1500’s. It is not the same as the concept of salvation that was passed down to us from the Apostles. It constitutes “a different gospel”.

" 4For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted…2 Cor. 11

" 8But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed! Gal. 1:8

During the Reformation, some Christians separated themselves from the Apostolic Succession, and lost part of the Divine Deposit of Faith that was passed down the ages through it.

You speak of “biblical salvation”, which is also a modern innovation. Our faith is not extracted from the pages of the Book, but handed down to us from the Apsotles. It was from that faith handed down that the Bible was produced. What is written in it’s pages reflects the Catholic faith - the faith that produced it.

Great reply, thanks

 

[Sunlight]

Like I was saying, confession is between me and god, not between me and a priest. Id rather directly talk to god then the priest down the street.

 

[PJM]

Yes BUT

Its not what the bible says; rather what Matthew Henry’s Commentary claims it means that counts for them.

(v. 23): "Whosesoever sins you remit, in the due execution of the powers you are entrusted with, they are remitted to them, and they may take the comfort of it; and whosesoever sins you retain, that is, pronounce unpardoned and the guilt of them bound on, they are retained, and the sinner may be sure of it, to his sorrow.’’** Now this follows upon their receiving the Holy Ghost; for, if they had not had an extraordinary spirit of discerning, they had not been fit to be entrusted with such an authority**; for, in the strictest sense, this is a special commission to the apostles themselves and the first preachers of the gospel, who could distinguish who were in the gall of bitterness and bond of iniquity, and who were not. By virtue of this power, Peter struck Ananias and Sapphira dead, and Paul struck Elymas blind.** Yet it must be understood as a general charter to the church and her ministers, not securing an infallibility of judgment to any man or company of men in the world,** but encouraging the faithful stewards of the mysteries of God to stand to the gospel they were sent to preach, for that God himself will stand to it. The apostles, in preaching remission, must begin at Jerusalem, though she had lately brought upon herself the guilt of Christ’s blood: "Yet you may declare their sins remitted upon gospel terms.’’ And Peter did so, **Acts. 2:38 Acts. 3:19 . Christ, being risen for our justification, sends his gospel heralds to proclaim the jubilee begun, the act of indemnity now passed; and by this rule men shall be judged, ch. 12:48 ; Rom. 2:16 ; Jam. 2:12 . **God will never alter this rule of judgment, nor vary from it; those whom the gospel acquits shall be acquitted, and those whom the gospel condemns shall be condemned, which puts immense honour upon the ministry, and should put immense courage into ministers. Two ways the apostles and ministers of Christ remit and retain sin, and both as having authority:—[1.] By sound doctrine. They are commissioned to tell the world that salvation is to be had upon gospel terms, and no other, and they shall find God will say Amen to it; so shall their doom be. [2.] By a strict discipline, applying the general rule of the gospel to particular persons. "**Whom you admit into communion with you, according to the rules of the gospel, **God will admit into communion with himself; and whom you cast out of communion as impenitent, and obstinate in scandalous and infectious sins, shall be bound over to the righteous judgment of God.’’

He attempts to limit the authority to the Apostles alone which is easily refuted by comparing Mt 10:1-8 to Mt 28:16-20:

Secondly M H tries to make a non-existent direct bible connection between God clear, precise commnad in order to defuse it.

It not what the bible says BUT what they choose to believe it say’s:shrug:

 

[PJM]

Hi Jack (could not quite say “Hi JC”),

The way you worded the underlined may indeed show your sentiment, but I thought we, the church, are grafted onto the earlier dispensation, sons of Abraham, even of the nation Israel. Not sure the visible church will rule as much as the elect (those ‘called out’ , the ‘church’ will rule , and it seems that thru the visible New Jerusalem, the seat of David, the Lord on the throne. For sure we rule with Him (along with OT saints) but not as "church’ or thru "church’.

But open to suggestions however, for indeed this topic is not much talked about.

Blessings

Consider this;

If Jesus didn’t wish to institute the Seven Sacraments to aid mens possible salvation; why then dis HE institute them?

 

[Sunlight]

I think you are missing the point. I gave my answer to this question: Re: What dear friend, do you find strange about Catholicism?

My answer is a response to what I find strange about Catholicism. This isn’t a debate and I am not trying to say my reply is the correct one and you all are wrong, it’s just what I feel is strange regardless of what it says in one scripture or another. Whether it’s right or wrong its my view of what I consider strange. I don’t care if my view is right or wrong on that, I still consider confessing to a priest is strange. All I am doing is replying to the author of this threads question lol

 

[PJM]

Thank you for that admission. Most Catholics will not admit that there is also a spiritual and unseen side to the church to which all believers are joined together.

Which CAN BE possible ONLY if; I repeat; ONLY IF they are fully aligned with ALL that Christ and for large part the Bible affirms IF, IF rightly understood.

Even God cannot; as an absolute impossibility; cannot hold different faith belefs on the same defined issues.

This means that Catholicism; GOD"S Teachings cannot be in any shape, way or form made subservient to Wycliffe, Luther, Calvin or ANYONE else. That my friend is what your position requires; and it is impossible for it to be true.

God Bless you,

 

[PJM]

Could anyone be saved until the sacrifice of Jesus?

Someone needs to give a definition because I think we might have different definitions.

“salvation=SAVED” you mean worthy and assured of Heaven upon death;** this is not biblical teaching when using the entire bible.
**

As for salvation before Christ.

Certainly there were many Souls who’s life merited eternal union with Christ; BUT which was denied them [GOOGLE Limbo of the Fathers]; until such time as Christ rose of the Dead and ascended back into heaven having REOPENED the gate to heaven which had been locked due to A & E’s Original sin.

God Bless you

 

[Sunlight]

Could you please show scripture, chapter and verse, that says we are to confess our sins to God alone?

I re-read my reply and I never said we are to confess our sins to god alone. I said it should be to god alone, just to clarify that’s my opinion and it was a reply to the question: Re: What dear friend, do you find strange about Catholicism? e\Even if it said in scriptures you can confess to a priest, I still find it strange and I wanted to explain on why I felt it was strange lol

 

[PJM]

As an Orthodox, i find it strange that Roman-Catholic clergy shave their beards. I must say because of it your bishops and priests look fake to the majority of Orthodox laity. It is just an ugly tradition to me. A tradition which came from, i don’t know where, because Christ and Apostles had beards, and portraits of early popes, they had beards.

Except perhaps for a few Religious Orders; there is NO Mandate; NO command that priest have to save. IT’S a Church practice and PERSONAL choice.

 

[PJM]

Originally Posted by eazyduzit View Post
Thank you for that admission. Most Catholics will not admit that there is also a spiritual and unseen side to the church to which all believers are joined together

.

The REPLY

My comments

Our Spiritual unity is through Christian Baptism; and then is extended through a common belief in the Triune God-Head.

Our disunity flows from very selective use of the bible and clear disobedience to VERY Much clearty taught therein.

 

[PJM]

Alvin…is that you?

Originally Posted by eazyduzit View Post
Thank you for that admission. Most Catholics will not admit that there is also a spiritual and unseen side to the church to which all believers are joined together.
You’ve asked ‘most Catholics’ this have you?

And this my friend is because you can read the bible; BUT not correctly understand it:blush:

Mark 7:16
If any man have ears to hear, let him hear

Matthew 13:15
For the heart of this people is grown gross, and with their ears they have been dull of hearing, and their eyes they have shut: lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

It is my friend that Holy Spirit that limits your inability to correctly be self-instructed from the Bible Alone. [not meaning JUST you personally; but representing Protestantism]

God Bless you,

 

[Sunlight]

No it doesn’t.

I never said “we are to confess to god alone” (meaning this is what we have to do, we are to confess to god and no one else) .

I said “we should confess to god alone” (2nd sentence) should doesn’t mean we have to. (this is my opinion, you do what you want)

Everyone should eat healthy. (not everyone does).

So, no it doesn’t contradict.

 

[PJM]

It seems to me that the explanation that would be given by, say, a Baptist is “simple”. RC explanations of the Eucharist are not – which I guess partially explains why it took so many centuries (Note: RCs draw mainly on St. Thomas Aquinas, who live more than 12 centuries after Christ).

"St. Ignatius became the third bishop of Antioch, succeeding St. Evodius, who was the immediate successor of St. Peter. He heard St. John preach when he was a boy and knew St. Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna. Seven of his letters written to various Christian communities have been preserved. Eventually, he received the martyr’s crown as he was thrown to wild beasts in the arena.

“Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us. They have no regard for charity, none for the widow, the orphan, the oppressed, none for the man in prison, the hungry or the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead.”
"Letter to the Smyrnaeans", paragraph 6. circa 80-110 A.D

“Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (the Didache), 9:2; 14:1,** circa 90 A.D.**:
Regarding the Eucharist … Let no one eat and drink of your Eucharist but those baptized in the name of the Lord; to this, too, the saying of the Lord is applicable: Do not give to dogs what is sacred.”

St. Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Romans,** 7, 110 A.D.:**

I desire the Bread of God, the heavenly Bread, the Bread of Life, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became afterwards of the seed of David and Abraham; I wish the drink of God, namely His blood, which is incorruptible love and eternal life.

St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Against Heresies, [5,2,2]** 180 A.D.: **

If the body be not saved, then in fact, neither did the Lord redeem us with His Blood; and neither is the cup of the Eucharist the partaking of His Blood nor is the Bread which we break the partaking of His Body . . . He has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be His own Blood, from which He causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, He has established as His own Body, from which He gives increase to our bodies.

Tertullian [ca. 200/206 AD] in his treaties on Prayer [6,2], quotes John 6 in connection with a spiritual understanding of the Lord’s prayer “give us this day our daily bread.” In a spiritual sense Christ is our daily Bread, presumably because of the practice of the daily reception of the Eucharist END QUOTES

Might I suggest that our Beloved Thomas was only reaffirming what had been taught, believed and accepted LONG before God Thomas to us:thumbsup:

 

[PJM]

Protestants who are unable to accept the fact of the Real Presence actually being Jesus. Amen

 

[PJM]

Like I was saying, confession is between me and god, not between me and a priest. Id rather directly talk to god then the priest down the street.

Sure you would; and so WOULD we all LIKE TOO; BUT friend that is NOT God’s plan in either the OT or NT.

Mortal men have attempted to hijack what GOD COMMANDS. The question you [all Protestants need to be asking themselves] is: WILL permit Himself to be dictated to by the teachings of Wycliffe, Luther and Calvin; WHICH directly and intentionally oppose God’s own clearly stated requirements? Likely not:shrug:

1John.1 Verses 8 to 10 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

1John.5 Verses 16 to 17 "If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

John.20 Verses 20 to 23"On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

Jesus Instituted Sacramental Confession because it great part it is DIFFICULT [pride verses humility] and this Sacrament is intended to aid us in NOT sinning that way again:thumbsup:

Pray much for humility; the first essential step towards God’s TRUTH