What did Corapi mean?

[whatevergirl]

*My sister sent both of her boys to Catholic schools…I went to public schools. Both her kids have completely strayed from the Church…in fact, her youngest is now a self-proclaimed atheist, the older one, doesn’t practice Catholicism, or much of any faith. I never strayed, but this had little to do with my sister. My dad, even though I had few years with him, instilled the faith in me at a very young age. My kids have always attended good public schools, but their foundation at home is strong in their dh and me. They don’t complain about ‘having to go to mass,’ they willingly and joyfully (most of the time) get ready for mass. They love the priests that have touched their lives, and I pray they stay the course after they leave the house.

That said, I KNOW this is but a small example highlighting Fr Corapi’s point, but what it does show is that sending kids to Catholic schools, and expecting that to be enough…or BETTER even than the foundation they should be having at home…is not wise. I think that without families praying together, talking about the faith, teaching, and so forth…any kid, whether it be he/she attends Catholic or public school, will not have a passion for the faith. Kids mimic more what their parents do, than what their teachers do. We have a responsibility to build the faith in our kids…more than the school does. It’s GREAT to find a Catholic school that bolsters a child’s faith…but, it isn’t a sure-fire guarantee that a child will develop a zeal for the faith, if the parents don’t live the faith, themselves.

Just my two cents.

PS–I’m kind of surprised though that Fr Corapi said that, though. Huh, interesting. *

 

[petr]

I am ignorant and naive of many of these issues.

My initial reaction is to think you people are throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Bringing awareness is one thing, but thinking there should be no schools is something else. That is the implication is it not?

My three children are in Catholic school because the public schools are terrible. Although costly, it was a no-brainer. I was disappointed when I realized that they were not the academic power house that I expected. Corapi’s statement is powerful in one way in that it has made me ask myself exactly why my kids are there and what my expectations are.

Here’s another naive opinion. I think these children are going to leave the faith. I expect them to. All I can hope for is that I have given them the foundation/roots to bring them back.

 

[jwashu]

I feel very blessed to have fantastic Catholic schools in my area. Maybe it’s because our Parish and some of the neighboring once are staffed, from a Priest standpoint, by the Holy Ghost Fathers (a missionary Priesthood). I have yet to hear anything that didn’t jive as of yet.

If I’m able to work in the time I may teach PRE this year, if so I’m interested to see if people are as Orthodox as they seem at our Parish. Don’t get me wrong I know not all of them are but we have 5 Masses each weekend in a pretty big Church and they are all filled for the most part and there is usually a line for Confession and we offer numerous times for that as well throughout the week.

These Schools that don’t seem too orthodox, how often does the Parish offer Confession? I ask because I know of one school in the state that has gotten really lax and when my wife and I visited there last summer we noticed that in a Parish larger than ours (I believe we are 1800 families) they had confession 1 hour per week on Saturday morning! How can they encourage that Sacrament when it’s only offered once a week?

Anyone else notice something similar?

Joe

 

[manualman]

If Fr. Corapi has a major flaw in his preaching, it is over-generalizing. In a tragically large number of cases, he is correct: kids don’t learn the catholic faith in nominally catholic schools, they get innoculated against it.

But this is only true if the school in question is your typical parish school, which has devolved into nothing more than a public school with half the budget, a religion class tacked on and school mass once or twice a month.

Don’t be lazy and assume a school is either good or bad based on the name or sponsoring agency. Check it out! It’s really not that hard. Look at the devotional life lived there. Do they attend mass, do anything special on holy days, have regular prayer (rosary, adoration, etc)? Is the faith reflected in the curriculum outside the religion class? (reading assignments, history, literature choices, etc) Do the priests show up and get involved in the life of the school in a constructive way? None of the above requires a phd to discern.

Believe it or not, such places DO exist! My kids started this year in a DIOCESAN school that uses the Faith & Life series (not typical in our diocese), has DAILY mass together, full day retreats on all Holy Days, uses catholic developed curriculum for nearly ALL subjects (excluding math), and expects teachers to life and teach the faith without caveats or subtle sabotage.

The catholic faith is not complete lived in isolation. God made us communal creatures and incorporated that into His plan for the church. Seek it out and give your kids the best shot you can!

 

[StJoan_ismygal]

I can see your point, manualman. It’s easy to generalize.

There are Catholic schools like the high school my mom went to, where one crazy nun would literally beat the girls over the head, and her mother would not intervene because one NEVER EVER questions the Church. And like the one I went to, where the academics were maybe a little better, but teen sex and drug use was rampant, and gang activity was increasing as they got more desperate for funds and threw out any and all admissions requirements.

And then there are Catholic schools that are authentic and teach the Faith well, setting hearts on fire for Jesus. Giving kids tools to navigate adolescence in a faith-filled way. These seem to be rare though.

I can’t afford either one, so the point is moot for me. Our kids go to publicly-funded charter schools, attend Whole Family Catechesis at our parish, and learn from us at home. Seems to be going well so far!

 

[Orchanian]

I know most of these posts are about childhood education (as opposed to college), but I’ll add my two cents about some good Catholic colleges. Franciscan University of Steubenville is a powerful Catholic College (home of Scott Hahn). I know several students from there and their faith just continues to grow. As a matter of fact, I heard Scott Hahn say that the students’ faith is so strong that when they leave college for breaks, they have to adjust to the lack of faith back home. Another Catholic school is Southern Catholic College in North Georgia. Both of these are faithful to the teaching of the church.

I guess this reinforces the comments others have made that it’s important to investigate the school rather than assume that it is up to your standards (or not).

 

[3GirlsRUs]

Surely there must still be some good Catholic schools out there? How do we help get more of them back?

I have been staying out of this discussion, but when I came to your post, decided to post.

Yes, there are some good Catholic schools out there. Our children are in one. However, we drive to a neighboring parish for it. We would not put our children in the parish school that is closest to us, for many of the reasons cited on this thread as to what is wrong with Catholic schools.

Our oldest attended Kindergarten in the public school system: Our main concern was that we figured if a kid was going to get a message about Catholicism that wasn’t in line with Rome, we might as well put them in Public school and hit it head on.

We joined our current parish in the middle of that school year and discovered that we are blessed to belong to a parish where we trust that Catholic values and morals are taught in accord with the Magesterium… and so we have them in our parish school.

I know that our current bishop is working on the whole diocese…he makes great headway in our parish because a) our parish school was already on his track and b) the families in our parish put their children in that school BECAUSE it is strong in the faith…the #1 priority of most of us is proper example and instruction in the Catholic Faith and I don’t know for sure, but I would bet that most children see Catholicism being lived faithfully by their families when away from school.

So they are out there.

Please pray for Catholic education. When Catholics start treating Catholic education as a lost cause, Satan wins, IMO. Get involved in your parishes. Sadly, what’s wrong with Catholic Schools – at its heart – is really what is wrong with Catholics in America…to blame it only on the schools is a bit misguided. Because honestly…parents are THE teachers of their children in faith and morals…the children will do what they SEE the parents do and even if a child is in an orthodox Catholic school, if they have cafeteria Catholics for parents, they will grow up to be cafeteria Catholics.

And if a child is in a family where s/he witnesses authentic Catholic faith being lived out at all times by the parents, it doesn’t matter where the child goes to school, the child most likely will grow up to live the Catholic faith authentically.

 

[shannyk]

I feel very blessed to have fantastic Catholic schools in my area. Maybe it’s because our Parish and some of the neighboring once are staffed, from a Priest standpoint, by the Holy Ghost Fathers (a missionary Priesthood). I have yet to hear anything that didn’t jive as of yet.

luck you and I’m sure that has a LOT to do with the fact that the school is great. When sisters brothers and priests ran schools it was a different story altogether.

If I’m able to work in the time I may teach PRE this year, if so I’m interested to see if people are as Orthodox as they seem at our Parish. Don’t get me wrong I know not all of them are but we have 5 Masses each weekend in a pretty big Church and they are all filled for the most part and there is usually a line for Confession and we offer numerous times for that as well throughout the week.

These Schools that don’t seem too orthodox, how often does the Parish offer Confession? I ask because I know of one school in the state that has gotten really lax and when my wife and I visited there last summer we noticed that in a Parish larger than ours (I believe we are 1800 families) they had confession 1 hour per week on Saturday morning! How can they encourage that Sacrament when it’s only offered once a week?

Anyone else notice something similar?

Joe

Yes indeed I noticed the same at my former parish where my DD atended. Confession was from 330-430 Sat afternoons only, and this is a parish of 4000!!

Don’t be lazy and assume a school is either good or bad based on the name or sponsoring agency. Check it out! It’s really not that hard. Look at the devotional life lived there. Do they attend mass, do anything special on holy days, have regular prayer (rosary, adoration, etc)? Is the faith reflected in the curriculum outside the religion class? (reading assignments, history, literature choices, etc) Do the priests show up and get involved in the life of the school in a constructive way? None of the above requires a phd to discern.

This is good advice:thumbsup: Though at my kids school and mine growing up we did have weekly mass, special things on Holy days, the rest was lacking. It actually wasn’t easy to tell with my kids school until I got really involved in the day to day there which is hard for every parents to do; I wasn’t able to do it actually until the 3rd year my DD attended, then i really saw what was, or better yet wasn’t, going on. Looking back I probably could have spent more time at the school and tried to ask parents before I decided on that school. Doing the footwork and homework is essential. No doubt there ARE good Catholic schools out there but they take some doing to find.

 

[Lawrence_Petrus]

That was a misguided reply by Fr. Corapi because he ignores 2 things. First, it would be better for the parents to get a class outline on religion, and then go over each item with the child and find out out what he or she learned that day, and then add whatever needs to be added or clarified. So you got the best of two worlds; the authority of the teacher and the authority of the parent. Keeping the child in the Cathoic school, he or she is still exposed to the Mass and other devotions. If somethng doesn’t seem right, then the parent can have a conference with the teacher and discuss what needs to be discussed, corrected and clarified. The child is not learning in a vacuum, and needs the interaction with the other students that in a good positive environment would help to reinforce the child’s fath.

 

[whatevergirl]

*I think that part of the problem with Catholic schools today, is that many parents are sending the kids there for completely the wrong reasons. My sister sent her two boys to Catholic school, because in south Florida, the public schools are a joke for the most part, even in Boca Raton, sadly. She could care less about the curriculum, she was sending them there to be ‘safe,’ and to avoid the bad ‘element’ that existed at the public schools. Same with one of my SIL’s…yes, she and my dh’s brother are devout Catholics, but she also said she is mainly sending her son to Catholic school because the public schools are not safe, near her.

I imagine that that is the case for many these days…looking to Catholic school for the private element, rather than the religious one. Thus, the teachers don’t get a lot of support from home, because maybe the parents really don’t follow the faith, etc. I think that is part of the problem. When my sister and husband attended Catholic schools, it was because our parents wanted them to receive a good Catholic education.

I think that the parents on this board who send their kids to Catholic schools fit that, by and large, but I’m just pointing out, that many parents who send their kids there, are doing so not for pure religious reasons. Thus, the parents are not altogether that interested in what is being taught about the faith.

I’d like to hear this talk from Fr Corapi if anyone can send me a link. I’m still taken aback by his comment, while I understand why he said it. *

 

[EspositoJoe]

You sound like a public school teacher – when all else fails, blame the parents!

I’m the product of Catholic education, as are my children. Father Corapi and Archbishop Sheen were both pointing out that Catholic schools have grown lazy, liberal and secular.

First, parents by and large, release themselves from teaching the faith in the home with activity such as daily readings, family rosary, periodic confession.

 

[whatevergirl]

I’m saying the same you are…but we can’t just blame Catholic schools. I think that parental support has grown lax, in my opinion, also. That’s what I was saying.

 

[otjm]

It is interesting reading this thread, as it seems no one has much history, and many no real facts. In other words, Urban Legend writ large.

Not too awfully long after Vatican 2, people with a whole lot of enthusiasm and not necessarily a lot of good or common sense decided we needed to completely revise the catechisms. And the bishops, many of whom appeared to be befuddeled, did little or nothing.

Doctrine got thrown out with the bath water, and we learned how to be good little Christians, but not much about what made us Catholics. It was not so much that heresy was taught, but that fluff was taught; kiddies learned about the Social Gospel, but not a whole lot else.

They grew up, got married, had kids, and those kids got much of the same into the early 90’s. They, like their parents, didn’t get taught much of anything about what the Church was really about.

And now they have children.

So in essence, we have two generations who didn’t learn about what the Church is all about.

In the 90’s the bishops (and we had new ones by this time in many places) finally got a clue or two about how catechesis had gone into the toilet, and started to change that.

Change as usual is not always quick; nor is it always consistent. Some areas got it early; others later, and some not yet. Gradually, after working through the grade school levels of catechetical material, the bishops started working on the high school level.

It is not an easy change; many of the teachers available to teach in the schools are either of the grandparents generation, or the parents generation, meaning they - the teachers - were not properly catechized in large part.

And there are always exceptions to the rule.

The sad part of Fr. Corapi’s alleged statement (alleged, because as best I can see, no one has produced the actual statement and given time and place where made) is that it paints with too broad a brush.

Are there problems? Yes, absolutely. Are they being worked on? In some areas, they have already been corrected; in other areas they are being corrected, and in some they have not yet been corrected.

And part of the problem is that too often, parents don’t know enough, or else they have enough prejudices that they may not be able to sort out what the Church wants, from what 1) they; 2) a school administrator; 3) a teacher; 4) the chancery and/or 5) the bishop wants, or knows about, or has prejudices for or against.

It is like painting Notre Dame with a broad brush; they have problems over there, but in emphasizing the problems, we lose sight of the good that is being done.

It should go without saying that parents are the primary teachers of the faith to their children. And given what many parents were taught, or not taught, that can be a scary thought. But let’s not get a pollyanna idea that before Vatican 2 all or most parents taught their children. Some did, some didn’t. Things are worse now than they were then, but how we got here is hardly simplistic. Things have taken a change, and as I noted, change is slow and not consistent.

 

[Secret_Square]

Fr. Corapi, and Bishop Sheen before him, were making generalizations in order to drive home a point. I am sure they did not mean to imply that ALL Catholic schools are bad or that one should never consider enrolling a child in one.

In Bishop Sheen’s time, the problem MAY have been that when young people went to Catholic schools all the way through high school or college, they lived in an environment where Catholic faith was taken for granted and never questioned, and they had no exposure to agnosticism, atheism, or other religions – so when they got out in the “real world” they were not prepared for the doubts, questions, and temptations they would encounter.

The problem Fr. Corapi is referring to, however, is probably the lack of genuine Catholic teaching in many (not all) schools. I think the problem is much worse at the college/university level than at the grade or high school level; only a handful of Catholic colleges in the U.S. are truly committed to orthodox teaching and to the vision of Ex Corde Ecclesiae.

I firmly believe, based on my own experience, that a secular university with a good Newman Center (e.g. Texas A & M, University of Illinois-Champaign) can provide young Catholics with better Catholic formation and education at far less expense than most “Catholic in name only” institutions.

 

[Andrew_Baalman]

Fr. Corapi used Arch Bishop Fulton J. Sheen’s statement; Fr. Corapi means what he said. Catholic schools are hiring protestants to teach at the Catholic schools and colleges; which goes against the Teachings of the Church and all the Popes we had, have and will have. They also bring in Atheists to teach Theology; which is the Study of God.

But it starts in the homes with the parents. IT IS THE PARENTS JOB TO TEACH AND EDUCATE THEIR CHILDREN ON THE FAITH; NOT THE TEACHERS OR WHOEVER. IT MUST START IN THE HOMES WITH THE PARENTS. IF THE PARENTS DO NOT DO THIS OR START TO DO THIS; THEY WILL SEND THEIR CHILDREN TO HELL ALONG WITH THEM SAYS ST. JEAN MARIE VIANNEY. THE PARENTS ARE IN CHARGE OF THEIR CHILDREN’S SOULS WHILE THEY LIVE AT HOME AND IF THEY DO NOT BECOME STRICT AND LAY DOWN THE CHURCH’S LAW AND TEACHINGS; WE WILL HAVE MORE CATHOLICS IN HELL THAN HEAVEN!!!

IF THE PARENTS TEACH ALL THEY CAN TO THEIR CHILDREN ON THE FAITH; THEN THE HARD PART IS TO SEARCH, STUDY, AND FIND THE RIGHT CATHOLIC SCHOOL THAT IS ORTHODOX IN IT’S TEACHINGS, TEACHERS, ECT.

PARENTS, GOD PARENTS, GRAND PARENTS, AUNTS AND UNCLES; TEACH YOUR RELATIVES THE FAITH AND MAKE SURE THEY GET TO HEAVEN AND NOT HELL!!!

 

[otjm]

Fr. Corapi, and Bishop Sheen before him, were making generalizations in order to drive home a point. I am sure they did not mean to imply that ALL Catholic schools are bad or that one should never consider enrolling a child in one.

In Bishop Sheen’s time, the problem MAY have been that when young people went to Catholic schools all the way through high school or college, they lived in an environment where Catholic faith was taken for granted and never questioned, and they had no exposure to agnosticism, atheism, or other religions – so when they got out in the “real world” they were not prepared for the doubts, questions, and temptations they would encounter.

The problem Fr. Corapi is referring to, however, is probably the lack of genuine Catholic teaching in many (not all) schools. I think the problem is much worse at the college/university level than at the grade or high school level; only a handful of Catholic colleges in the U.S. are truly committed to orthodox teaching and to the vision of Ex Corde Ecclesiae.

I firmly believe, based on my own experience, that a secular university with a good Newman Center (e.g. Texas A & M, University of Illinois-Champaign) can provide young Catholics with better Catholic formation and education at far less expense than most “Catholic in name only” institutions.

And the point I was trying to make was that a) Fr. Corapi, whether he likes it or not, is now at least a national figure among Catholics, with a defined reputation. As such, he would do the Church good (or in the inverse, could do the Church harm) by the amount of care he takes in making statements.

And b), people are notorious for not using much of a degree of exactitude in thinking or in listening. Poorly chosen words are easily misunderstood, misstated, incorrectly repeated, repeated out of context, and otherwise misused and abused. “Did you hear what (so and so) said?!?” is all too often heard in conversations as truth when it may be anything but that; or only partially that.

It is a bit like the comments you make about Catholic education on Catholic campuses. They easily end up painted by those facutly members who are not true to the Magisterium, all the while ignoring faculty - and students - who are.

There are no questions but that we have had problems in Catholic education from the bottom up. But significant problems in one area or incident end up being reported and repeated as if it were the sum of the story, when it may be, or may be a significant part, or maybe less than that.

In addition there is the issue of who is making the point; it may be someone with an ax to grind, or someone so prejudiced that the truth really doesn’t matter.

In short, I do not disagree that we have a problem; but without personal experience it is at best difficult to give any fair weighting to the issue, and it too soon devolves in "me too!’ comments. Do we need to improve things? Absolutely. Do we need to make a ruckus when incidents like Notre Dame/Obama occur? Yes. But we also need to acknowledge when a University, such as Notre Dame, gets something right. Listening to the idle chatter, one would easily be convinced they do nothing of the sort. That is not only a lie, but also a failure to build up the Body of Christ.

 

[otjm]

Fr. Corapi used Arch Bishop Fulton J. Sheen’s statement; Fr. Corapi means what he said. Catholic schools are hiring protestants to teach at the Catholic schools and colleges; which goes against the Teachings of the Church and all the Popes we had, have and will have.

It might be news to you, but Catholic Colleges and Universitites did this before Vatican 2. There is nothing essentially wrong in hiring a math teacher of wahtever background to teach Calculus; that does not involve moral issues.

They also bring in Atheists to teach Theology; which is the Study of God.

Please site your sources and incidents. Otherwise, this is an unsubstantiated claim.

But it starts in the homes with the parents. IT IS THE PARENTS JOB TO TEACH AND EDUCATE THEIR CHILDREN ON THE FAITH; NOT THE TEACHERS OR WHOEVER. IT MUST START IN THE HOMES WITH THE PARENTS. IF THE PARENTS DO NOT DO THIS OR START TO DO THIS; THEY WILL SEND THEIR CHILDREN TO HELL ALONG WITH THEM SAYS ST. JEAN MARIE VIANNEY. THE PARENTS ARE IN CHARGE OF THEIR CHILDREN’S SOULS WHILE THEY LIVE AT HOME AND IF THEY DO NOT BECOME STRICT AND LAY DOWN THE CHURCH’S LAW AND TEACHINGS; WE WILL HAVE MORE CATHOLICS IN HELL THAN HEAVEN!!!

IF THE PARENTS TEACH ALL THEY CAN TO THEIR CHILDREN ON THE FAITH; THEN THE HARD PART IS TO SEARCH, STUDY, AND FIND THE RIGHT CATHOLIC SCHOOL THAT IS ORTHODOX IN IT’S TEACHINGS, TEACHERS, ECT.

PARENTS, GOD PARENTS, GRAND PARENTS, AUNTS AND UNCLES; TEACH YOUR RELATIVES THE FAITH AND MAKE SURE THEY GET TO HEAVEN AND NOT HELL!!!

While we may all agree with you, use of all caps is the equivalent of shouting. I am quite capable of reading lower case, just as I am quite capable of hearing.

 

[ML561]

All I know is that as a convert to Catholicism who attended public school (in the community in which I grew up, even if I had been raised Catholic there was no Catholic school), I knew many, many people who were cradle Catholics and went to Catholic schools. Some remained Catholic and had a good understanding of the faith, in fact, they helped me as I was going through instructions. Others completely turned their backs on the Catholic Church, for various reasons. I am in agreement with posters who say that it is the parents who must take the lead and not expect the school to provide all the instruction.

My mother, a retired elementary schoolteacher (and a devout Methodist) says that far too often parents forsake their role in teaching children–(basic things like courtesy and responsibility) and expect the school to do it all. If the parents don’t start training the children in the right paths before they are of an age to go to school, the children might not learn very much when they do get to school. Parents are the first teachers.

 

[MarysGirls]

I am certain that Fr. Corapi didn’t mean that All Catholic schools are bad. But it Is primarily the parents’ job to teach the Faith to their children, and to be an example to them of what that faith means. As I was homeschooled by my parents, I wasn’t exposed to much opposition, however, reading books on secular religions with a Catholic perspective helped.

Just an interesting fact: Josef Stalin became an atheist while studying for the priesthood.

 

[Secret_Square]

In my earlier comment I may have been a bit too harsh on Catholic colleges and universities. Of course there are many good people at even the “liberal” schools. Case in point – the Notre Dame students who chose to attend a pro-life prayer vigil during the Obama commencement speech. There are many other examples too. However, I still believe the overall quality of Catholic formation at a good Newman Center can be equal to or better than that of a weak Catholic college.

Another reason why Catholics MAY be “more likely” to lose their faith from attending a Catholic rather than a secular school is that when teachers or other students at a Catholic school set a bad example or hurt or abuse students in any way (physically, emotionally, sexually, etc.) it makes a deeper and more scandalizing impression.

An incompetent or abusive teacher or coach employed by a public school, for the most part, doesn’t make the CHURCH look bad; but if they are employed by a Catholic school, that’s a different story. Remember, many people who leave the Church or stop practicing their faith ultimately do so because someone connected with the Church hurt them or snubbed them – not because they disagree with the theology or doctrine as such.

Also – this is a phenomenon I have been seeing in my own community; I wonder if anyone else sees this where they live – the reputation that students or alumni of a particular Catholic school have could be unfavorable. Where I used to live, there was a Catholic high school that had a reputation (perhaps not fully merited) for being the “rich kids school” and for producing graduates that have a disproportionate amount of wealth and influence in the community – kind of a good old boys network (it’s coed now but historically was a boys’ school). People who did not attend this school or who cannot afford to send their children there often speak unfavorably of it, sometimes they even describe its alums as a “Catholic Mafia.” There MAY be people out there who have turned away from the Church because of the way they were treated by students, teachers, or graduates of this school, who would not have reacted that way if these people were merely graduates of a wealthy public or other private school.