What Did Mary Know?

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She wasn’t shocked.

Mary was neither ignorant, nor omniscient.

She was not an illiterate ignorant child content to ‘sit back and let God act’ assuming that everything was going to be magic perfect, and thus being ‘shocked’ when people told her that there would be great sorrows for her. She wasn’t ‘shocked’ when the Magi offered gifts, or at having to go to Egypt, or when her son stayed in Jerusalem when He was 12, or during His mission, etc.

Neither was she consulting her planner, “Oh, ok, today is the day Jesus will heal the paralysed man. Better be sure I have Martha and Mary and the other women cook extra, there’s gonna be a bigger crowd with Jesus tonight than usual. And note to self, remind Him about Judas. . .”
 
stpurl said:
She was not an illiterate ignorant child content to ‘sit back and let God act’ assuming that everything was going to be magic perfect, and thus being ‘shocked’ when people told her that there would be great sorrows for her.
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She was still without the Spirit. When Jesus appeared in the Cenacle, she certainly was one of those He opened the Scriptures for.
 
JGD said:
The Scripture passage doesn’t say it “shocked” them; it says they “marvelled” or “wondered” or were “astonished” at what Simeon said. It applies to Joseph as well as Mary. The word is meant to encompass the interior reaction of Joseph also
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And marveled fits the definition of surprised or amazed. Mary and Joseph were holy humans, not gods.
 
“Without the Spirit?” She was the Spouse of the Holy Spirit (Yes, she was the spouse of St. Joseph too, no, she was not a bigamist, no she is not a goddess).

One does not have to be ‘a god’ to have a marvelous human understanding.

I did not say Mary had a godlike understanding. But she was the most perfect creature God made —why would she not have a more perfect human understanding?
 
To make it even clearer, and this is something that mothers would understand very well (fathers too), but God Almighty was trusting HIS SON’s child-rearing to Mary and Joseph.

Therefore He chose the world’s best parents— and home schoolers.

The home is the first ‘school’ a child has. Not only that, for the first at least 7 or so years of Jesus’ life He, Mary, and Joseph were ‘on the run’ from Herod, in a foreign country to boot. No extended family to help.

In the time of a child’s greatest intellectual development (birth to age 5) Jesus was ‘on His own” with Mary and Joseph.

And He ‘grew in wisdom and understanding”. That wisdom and understanding are certainly God’s attributes, but were nurtured and directed and reinforced by Mary and Joseph.
 
stpurl said:
Neither was she consulting her planner, “Oh, ok, today is the day Jesus will heal the paralysed man. Better be sure I have Martha and Mary and the other women cook extra, there’s gonna be a bigger crowd with Jesus tonight than usual. And note to self, remind Him about Judas. . .”
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Although she probably wasn’t doing this, it’s amusing to think of her doing that.

I’m also sure she noticed There was Something About Judas. And Jesus probably just said, Yeah mom, I know. Hey, what’s cooking, it smells really good…
 
And the two of them exchanged a quiet smile.
And then Mary probably went to pray an extra prayer for Judas that even when the worst would happen that he would still somehow manage to repent.
 
stpurl said:
She was the Spouse of the Holy Spirit
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She received the indwelling of He who.overshadowed her Pentecost.

If she understood all of it why would Luke have wrote this?

When his parents saw him, they were astonished, and his mother said to him, “Son, why have you done this to us? Your father and I have been looking for you with great anxiety.” And he said to them, “Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father’s house?” **But they did not understand what he said to them.
**1
Luke 2:48‭-‬50 NABRE

 
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Julius_Caesar said:
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stpurl:
She was the Spouse of the Holy Spirit
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She received the indwelling of He who.overshadowed her Pentecost.

If she understood all of it why would Luke have wrote this?
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For us - to know and meditate on - the same reason he let us know other events that took place during Jesus’ early years - His “hidden” years.
When his parents saw him, they were astonished, and his mother said to him, “Son, why have you done this to us? Your father and I have been looking for you with great anxiety.” And he said to them, “Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father’s house?” **But they did not understand what he said to them.
**1
Luke 2:48‭-‬50 NABRE

https://bible.com/bible/463/luk.2.48-50.NABRE
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Maybe this event (Jesus in the temple) fulfills a line from the Messianic prophecy in Isaiah’s Chapter 11. “a little child shall lead them” (verse 6b). The Child Jesus teaching the teachers; amazing them with “His understanding and His answers” (Luke 2:46-47). Asking questions continued to be one of the teaching methods Jesus used in His public ministry.
 
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Julius_Caesar said:
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JGD:
The Scripture passage doesn’t say it “shocked” them; it says they “marvelled” or “wondered” or were “astonished” at what Simeon said. It applies to Joseph as well as Mary. The word is meant to encompass the interior reaction of Joseph also
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And marveled fits the definition of surprised or amazed. Mary and Joseph were holy humans, not gods.
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“Shocked”, the word you used, often contains more of a negative or unpleasant nuance, whereas marveled/surprised/amazed do not; they have just the opposite - positive, pleasing, etc.

And of course Joseph and Mary were humans, not gods. That is one point I think everyone on this forum would agree with. 🙂
 
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JGD said:
For us - to know and meditate on - the same reason he let us know other events that took place during Jesus’ early years - His “hidden” years.
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Or for encouragement that even the best of us needed Jesus to open her mind. Simple as that.
 
Some thoughts on this.

Before sin Adam and Eve communicated with angels as a matter of course.
Mary lived in the same state. Her response to the angel seems like one not unfamiliar with what was happening.

Having an intellect that isn’t darkened by sin gave her clarity no one else knew. Gave her access to subtleties no one else could see. She may have noticed this peculiarity and if she wasn’t careful her clarity may offend the more self righteous and those who considered themselves wise.
I doubt she would know it was sinlessness being perfectly humble.I think that would be something Jesus might reveal to her.
 
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Benadam said:
Mary lived in the same state. Her response to the angel seems like one not unfamiliar with what was happening.
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This contradicts Scripture.

In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a town in Galilee called Nazareth, And he came to her and said, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.” But she was much perplexed by his words and pondered what sort of greeting this might be.
Luke 1:26‭, ‬28‭-‬29 NRSV-CI

Why’d she be troubled if she spoke to angels regularly?
 
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She wasn’t troubled by the angels presence but about his greeting.
It could be that she knew enough to be troubled. Her question “how can this be” could have come from knowing she would not be able to tell anyone how she became pregnant.
 
Benadam said:
She wasn’t troubled by the angels presence but about his greeting.
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She was troubled about both his prescene and his greeting as the text indicates. Otherwise why would Gabriel have reassured her?
 
Well, an angel appearing in one’s private space would be startling. An appearance may have been unusual but communication may not have been. She didn’t need a sign for recognition and belief as John the Baptists father did. Here a teenager did better than a temple priest.
 
Benadam said:
Well, an angel appearing in one’s private space would be startling. An appearance may have been unusual but communication may not have been.
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So a person who regularly speaks with angels gets scared when one shows up on her porch? Seems legit.
 
Benadam said:
Before sin Adam and Eve communicated with angels as a matter of course.
Mary lived in the same state.
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This is actually a very similar concept to the Divine Will teachings that some Catholic prayer groups promote, with diocesan approval. I won’t go deeper than that to avoid breaking the rule about unapproved private revelations.

However, I think there was still quite a bit that God didn’t reveal to Mary until the proper time. Mary was human, and I can’t imagine a human mom being forced to live for 33 years with the knowledge that at some point her beloved child would be tortured to death in front of her eyes. Also, when Jesus got lost at age 12, it took her 3 days of searching to find him; she clearly did not know where he would be, or why.
 
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