What did the early church liturgy look like?

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what did the early church’s mass look like? Did the priest face twards the tabernacle or to the people? Was the alter more like the tridentine mass alter or the novus ordo mass alter? I’ve heard some people say that they believe that the novus ordo mass is more like the mass of the early church becuase it is less complex, but many traditionalists say that the tridentine latin mass is closer to the origional litergies.
 
what did the early church’s mass look like? Did the priest face twards the tabernacle or to the people? Was the alter more like the tridentine mass alter or the novus ordo mass alter? I’ve heard some people say that they believe that the novus ordo mass is more like the mass of the early church becuase it is less complex, but many traditionalists say that the tridentine latin mass is closer to the origional litergies. What should we make of this?
 
This is indeed the $64,000 dollar question. We have accounts of what seem to us early liturgies, but they already post-date apostolic times by at least a century. The only thing we have from apostolic times is St. Paul’s account of the re-creation of the sacrament of the body and blood, so obviously this most basic thing goes back to the earliest times. We can take a good guess about a few other things, such as that there were always commemorations and readings, but I have always had my doubts about those who claim that the Traditional Latin Mass as canonized at Trent is in detail from beginning to end of anything like ancient origin. Many things in it, including much of the ordinary, are documented as late medieval additions (not the prayers themselves, but their mandated use in the Mass).

The issue of the way the celebrant faced is equally hard to deal with. There are ancient examples of what appear to be altars which would have required an ad orientem stance. On the other hand, it needs to be remembered that in classical times people ate around a table, a triclinum, while resting reclined on one side, and this is probably the posture used at the Last Supper. So the whole thing is involved with the duality of meal and sacrifice, which I assume (in fact which the church teaches) is an apostolic development ordained by our Lord himself.
 
what did the early church’s mass look like? Did the priest face twards the tabernacle or to the people? Was the alter more like the tridentine mass alter or the novus ordo mass alter? I’ve heard some people say that they believe that the novus ordo mass is more like the mass of the early church becuase it is less complex, but many traditionalists say that the tridentine latin mass is closer to the origional litergies.
See Mike Aquilina’a book The Mass of the Early Christians.

And please, the word is **altar.
**

JSA
 
what did the early church’s mass look like? Did the priest face twards the tabernacle or to the people? Was the alter more like the tridentine mass alter or the novus ordo mass alter? I’ve heard some people say that they believe that the novus ordo mass is more like the mass of the early church becuase it is less complex, but many traditionalists say that the tridentine latin mass is closer to the origional litergies.
Well it really all depends how far back you want to go and which particular Church you want to check. In the really early Church there was NO continuity, nothing really concrete and about the only thing they had in common was the Eucharist itself. Every Church was different Most of the early Church groups met in private homes or in some secluded place such as the catacombs or what were the equivalent of warehouses. There were no actual physical churches for a very long time. They used different Gospels and other inspired writings because there was no standard Canon until late in the third century. There was no standard set of consecration prayers and no set way of receiving the Eucharist, which by the way was normally taken home for consumption during the rest of the week. In some Churches a small portion might be consumed at the altar but was usually brought back to the family and shared with them. In most Churches the women and children did not approach the altar…

That particular bit of information is usually not brought forth by the supporters of receiving in the hand:) and who advocate the practice as being that of the early church.

As far as the Priest facing the people or the east, they have found altars in the catacombs that were fixed to the walls, so from that I would assume that at least in some cases the earliest Masses were celebrated ad orientem. Other than that it is really any ones guess as to the prevalent practice was.

People seem to have this idealized view of the early Church as somehow being more pure and thus deserving of emulation today. I would submit the opposite. The early Church was torn apart by heresies almost from the start, schismatics roamed with impunity, people preached just about anything they wanted to, counterfeit and altered scriptural writings abounded and hucksters and charlatains were everywhere.

The Catholic Church managed to pull these disparate groups together and set down laws and standards got rid of a lot, not all but a lot of the heretics, schismatics, erroneous doctrine and and counterfeit and fraudulent books, came up with the Canon of Scripture that we use today and saved the Christian Church from imploding and destroying itself through the grace of God.

I don’t really think we need to look to the early church for inspiration or even really care a lot how they did things.
 
The issue of the way the celebrant faced is equally hard to deal with. There are ancient examples of what appear to be altars which would have required an ad orientem stance. On the other hand, it needs to be remembered that in classical times people ate around a table, a triclinum, while resting reclined on one side, and this is probably the posture used at the Last Supper. So the whole thing is involved with the duality of meal and sacrifice, which I assume (in fact which the church teaches) is an apostolic development ordained by our Lord himself.
If that table were used, it would mean that Jesus and all of the Apostles faced the same direction…traditionally to the East.
 
The priest facing the people is a complete novelty. The early Mass would have had the priest facing the East and it would have been done on a freestanding altar, rather then one against the wall.
 
It seems that from a very eary age there was importance given to facing east regardless of architecture, and yes it was a freestanding altar so far as I am aware. The structure of the mass is given by Justin Martyr in his famous apology. It sounds to me that the early masses were like an ad orientem Novus Ordo mass, with a bit of a more ceremonial and ritual flavor than we usually see in a NO mass. So essentially, it was its own animal, but had elements here and there that we later adopted.
 
what did the early church’s mass look like? Did the priest face twards the tabernacle or to the people? Was the alter more like the tridentine mass alter or the novus ordo mass alter? I’ve heard some people say that they believe that the novus ordo mass is more like the mass of the early church becuase it is less complex, but many traditionalists say that the tridentine latin mass is closer to the origional litergies. What should we make of this?
Well it really all depends how far back you want to go and which particular Church you want to check. In the really early Church there was NO continuity, nothing really concrete and about the only thing they had in common was the Eucharist itself. Every Church was different Most of the early Church groups met in private homes or in some secluded place such as the catacombs or what were the equivalent of warehouses. There were no actual physical churches for a very long time. They used different Gospels and other inspired writings because there was no standard Canon until late in the third century. There was no standard set of consecration prayers and no set way of receiving the Eucharist, which by the way was normally taken home for consumption during the rest of the week. In some Churches a small portion might be consumed at the altar but was usually brought back to the family and shared with them. In most Churches the women and children did not approach the altar…

That particular bit of information is usually not brought forth by the supporters of receiving in the hand and who advocate the practice as being that of the early church.

As far as the Priest facing the people or the east, they have found altars in the catacombs that were fixed to the walls, so from that I would assume that at least in some cases the earliest Masses were celebrated ad orientem. Other than that it is really any ones guess as to the prevalent practice was.

People seem to have this idealized view of the early Church as somehow being more pure and thus deserving of emulation today. I would submit the opposite. The early Church was torn apart by heresies almost from the start, schismatics roamed with impunity, people preached just about anything they wanted to, counterfeit and altered scriptural writings abounded and hucksters and charlatains were everywhere.

The Catholic Church managed to pull these disparate groups together and set down laws and standards got rid of a lot, not all but a lot of the heretics, schismatics, erroneous doctrine and and counterfeit and fraudulent books, came up with the Canon of Scripture that we use today and saved the Christian Church from imploding and destroying itself through the grace of God.

I don’t really think we need to look to the early church for inspiration or even really care a lot how they did things.
 
People seem to have this idealized view of the early Church as somehow being more pure and thus deserving of emulation today

I don’t really think we need to look to the early church for inspiration or even really care a lot how they did things.
I agree. I don’t know why people would care more about what happened in 5th century Syria as opposed to what happened in your own parish church 50 years ago.

There is probably no way to know with certainty what were the practices and customs anyway.
 
The thing is… the Missal of 1962 Organically evolved right from these early Masses. The Novus Ordo Missae is a pure fabrication from the late 60’s.

Such fabrication of Liturgy is not Catholic in the slightest.
 
The thing is… the Missal of 1962 Organically evolved right from these early Masses. The Novus Ordo Missae is a pure fabrication from the late 60’s.

Such fabrication of Liturgy is not Catholic in the slightest.
I was an altar boy up until the end of my junior year in high school - 1968. All I can say is that it was a radical change and IMHO not for the best. And, yes, once the baby was thrown out with the bathwater, the abuses started right quickly. Does anyone understand how much I HATED singing Simon and Garfunkle at my HS graduation Mass from a Catholic HS?
 
The thing is… the Missal of 1962 Organically evolved right from these early Masses. The Novus Ordo Missae is a pure fabrication from the late 60’s.

Such fabrication of Liturgy is not Catholic in the slightest.
:rotfl: Your not much of a history buff, I take it.

The Roman Missal was revised on a number of occasions after 1570. Pope Clement VIII made a general revision, as did Pope Urban VIII and other popes.

Almost all Latin-rite altars of recent centuries were accordingly built against a wall or backed by a reredos, with a tabernacle placed on the altar or inserted into the reredos. There were exceptions to this orientation, however. The Tridentine Missal itself speaks of celebrating “versus populum” (facing the people), and gives corresponding instructions for the priest when performing actions that in the other orientation involved turning for him to face the people (Ritus servandus in celebratione Missae, V, 3).

In several ancient churches in Rome, it was physically impossible for the priest to celebrate Mass facing away from the people, because of the presence, immediately in front of the altar, of the “confession” (Latin: Confessio), an area sunk below floor level to enable people to come close to the tomb of the saint buried beneath the altar.

The best-known such “confession” is that in St Peter’s Basilica, but several other churches in Rome have the same architectural feature, as for instance the Church of the Four Crowned Saints in Via dei Santi Quattro, which has the apse to the east. It is said that the reason the Pope traditionally faced the people when celebrating Mass in St Peter’s was because, due to the difficult terrain, the basilica was built with its apse to the west. “For whatever reason it was done, one can also see this arrangement (whereby the priest faced the people) in a whole series of church buildings within Saint Peter’s direct sphere of influence.”

The 2002-2006 excavations at the Basilica of Saint Paul Outside the Walls have shown that the original basilica there, built, like the Basilica of Saint Peter, at the time of the Emperor Constantine I, also had its apse to the west, although there were no constraints of terrain to impose this orientation.

The same orientation is seen in more of the oldest churches in Rome, confirming the statement that, before the sixth century, churches were usually constructed with the entrance to the east:

"When Christians in fourth-century Rome could first freely begin to build churches, they customarily located the sanctuary towards the** west end** of the building in imitation of the sanctuary of the Jerusalem Temple.

Although in the days of the Jerusalem Temple the high priest indeed faced east when sacrificing on Yom Kippur, the sanctuary within which he stood was located at the west end of the Temple. The Christian replication of the layout and the orientation of the Jerusalem Temple helped to dramatize the eschatological meaning attached to the sacrificial death of Jesus the High Priest in the Epistle to the Hebrews."

The people originally stood in the side aisles and for the first portion of the service faced the altar but at the approach of the consecration they all turned to face east towards the open church doors, the same direction the priest faced throughout the Eucharistic liturgy.
 
:rotfl: Your not much of a history buff, I take it.

The Roman Missal was revised on a number of occasions after 1570. Pope Clement VIII made a general revision, as did Pope Urban VIII and other popes.

Almost all Latin-rite altars of recent centuries were accordingly built against a wall or backed by a reredos, with a tabernacle placed on the altar or inserted into the reredos. There were exceptions to this orientation, however. The Tridentine Missal itself speaks of celebrating “versus populum” (facing the people), and gives corresponding instructions for the priest when performing actions that in the other orientation involved turning for him to face the people (Ritus servandus in celebratione Missae, V, 3).

In several ancient churches in Rome, it was physically impossible for the priest to celebrate Mass facing away from the people, because of the presence, immediately in front of the altar, of the “confession” (Latin: Confessio), an area sunk below floor level to enable people to come close to the tomb of the saint buried beneath the altar.

The best-known such “confession” is that in St Peter’s Basilica, but several other churches in Rome have the same architectural feature, as for instance the Church of the Four Crowned Saints in Via dei Santi Quattro, which has the apse to the east. It is said that the reason the Pope traditionally faced the people when celebrating Mass in St Peter’s was because, due to the difficult terrain, the basilica was built with its apse to the west. “For whatever reason it was done, one can also see this arrangement (whereby the priest faced the people) in a whole series of church buildings within Saint Peter’s direct sphere of influence.”

The 2002-2006 excavations at the Basilica of Saint Paul Outside the Walls have shown that the original basilica there, built, like the Basilica of Saint Peter, at the time of the Emperor Constantine I, also had its apse to the west, although there were no constraints of terrain to impose this orientation.

The same orientation is seen in more of the oldest churches in Rome, confirming the statement that, before the sixth century, churches were usually constructed with the entrance to the east:

"When Christians in fourth-century Rome could first freely begin to build churches, they customarily located the sanctuary towards the** west end** of the building in imitation of the sanctuary of the Jerusalem Temple.

Although in the days of the Jerusalem Temple the high priest indeed faced east when sacrificing on Yom Kippur, the sanctuary within which he stood was located at the west end of the Temple. The Christian replication of the layout and the orientation of the Jerusalem Temple helped to dramatize the eschatological meaning attached to the sacrificial death of Jesus the High Priest in the Epistle to the Hebrews."

The people originally stood in the side aisles and for the first portion of the service faced the altar but at the approach of the consecration they all turned to face east towards the open church doors, the same direction the priest faced throughout the Eucharistic liturgy.
Actually Maggieodae, CatholicNick is indeed correct. So are you. But the revisions of 1969 cannot be compared to previous revisions however much they may have been. The Roman liturgy has always built on what has came before. Inherently it has always been conservative. Very rarely has it really dumped prayers that were appended to it-perhaps pushed it into the background, or changed it a little. Added a lot, but not remodeled.
 
Actually Maggieodae, CatholicNick is indeed correct. So are you. But the revisions of 1969 cannot be compared to previous revisions however much they may have been. The Roman liturgy has always built on what has came before. Inherently it has always been conservative. Very rarely has it really dumped prayers that were appended to it-perhaps pushed it into the background, or changed it a little. Added a lot, but not remodeled.
True…lots of goofy changes have gone on but that has been the norm for most revisions. They are NOT part of what the revisions were. They are just people taking too much liberty, as we have seen done since the 60’s…actually it began before that, hence the need for Vatican II. It was not all roses believe me before Vat II. I lived it and lots of goofy things went on then too.

But as the OP was asking about the early Mass…that is where knowing history comes in. 😉
 
True…lots of goofy changes have gone on but that has been the norm for most revisions. They are NOT part of what the revisions were. They are just people taking too much liberty, as we have seen done since the 60’s…actually it began before that, hence the need for Vatican II. It was not all roses believe me before Vat II. I lived it and lots of goofy things went on then too.

But as the OP was asking about the early Mass…that is where knowing history comes in. 😉

Aberrations are never part of a liturgy. But the liturgy of Rome has indeed been reworked and it is not untruthful to say that it has been fabricated because of the drastic revision and realignment of texts. It is true that many texts were restored but also many texts were stitched together and some newly composed. It was not merely additions, or some new texts but something that touched and reworked everything.
The liturgy grows and develops organically, building on what has gone before, pruning but not reworking. To use the example of the Holy Father, it should be a gardener, not a technician throwing out the old and building things anew. Moreover, the revision itself realized that it could not fully return to a Patristic liturgy. Consequently the selection of prayers in the liturgy of 1969 appears wholly arbitrary.
Again, things were introduced that were not the tradition of Rome. To take one example: while the East has tended to multiple Eucharistic Prayers, the tradition of Rome is one Eucharistic Prayer but variable prefaces. Yet now we have 4 Eucharistic Prayers, and these moreover can be said at the choice of the priest. Even the supposed restoration of EP II is not a restoration at all. It is actually a fusion of the Anaphora of Hippolytus with parts of the Roman Canon with the option for Proper Prefaces that takes out a sizeable chunk of the original prayer (in the ordinary preface for EP II)
And the claim was to return to the early Chruch but we have not:and moreover various tiny traditions, of ancient character themselves, have been dispensed with in favour of pastoral-ism​

For a book on the early Church liturgy, this one is quite good. It is not without some biases (obviously) but it was even referenced in the old Catholic Encyclopedia.

BTW, how early is “early Church”?
 
From what I’ve heard, the earliest, and therefore most accurate, liturgy looked like this:

It was at a person’s home, and held on a regular table, and it was forbidden to call it an Altar.

The people all sat around it, and no body ever knelt or genuflected.

Also, the services were led by both the husband and the wife. After the wife read from the Gospel, it was the wife who proclaimed the Eucharistic Prayer. There are no accurate records of the involvement of men at the time.

The consecrated Host was then handed to everyone or passed around the table. People took it themselves and fed themselves.

BTW: No, I don’t really think that’s how it went. But that’s about the story you’ll get in my Diocese.
 
From what I’ve heard, the earliest, and therefore most accurate, liturgy looked like this:

It was at a person’s home, and held on a regular table, and it was forbidden to call it an Altar.

The people all sat around it, and no body ever knelt or genuflected.

Also, the services were led by both the husband and the wife. After the wife read from the Gospel, it was the wife who proclaimed the Eucharistic Prayer. There are no accurate records of the involvement of men at the time.

The consecrated Host was then handed to everyone or passed around the table. People took it themselves and fed themselves.

BTW: No, I don’t really think that’s how it went. But that’s about the story you’ll get in my Diocese.

Sounds like many are being greatly misled—by those pushing for the “priesthood” of the people.
 
what did the early church’s mass look like? Did the priest face twards the tabernacle or to the people? Was the alter more like the tridentine mass alter or the novus ordo mass alter? I’ve heard some people say that they believe that the novus ordo mass is more like the mass of the early church becuase it is less complex, but many traditionalists say that the tridentine latin mass is closer to the origional litergies. What should we make of this?
Well, the Mass in the earliest days of the Church was usually celebrated in a large, whitewashed building that closely resembled a modern-day airplane hangar. There were no statues or crucifixes or stained-glass windows, because the faith of the people was so white-hot in those days that they didn’t need all the fancy externals: a few kindergarten scribblegrams placed strategically were sufficient to excite the advanced piety of the earliest Christians. The ugliest and cheapest vessels possible were chosen for Communion, as a statement against crass materialism. Communion was received in a seated position, in order not to alienate those who were not inclined to kneel. The music of the liturgy was deliberately mediocre, in order to cater to the ordinary folk whose intellects were insufficiently developed to deal with higher forms of music. Hymns were led by a group placed ostentatiously at the front of the sacred space, carefully chosen for their tone-deafness, accompanied by drums and a curious, stringed instrument that closely resembled an electric guitar without the electricity. It was considered taboo to preach about sin or about death, judgment, hell and heaven, because in those days when Christians were far closer to Jesus than we are, everybody knew that nobody goes to hell; it’s only centuries of autocratic rule by the power-hungry bishops and the hierarchy that have led us to believe otherwise, in order to keep the collection baskets full.

Oh, and contrary to the current phallocentric, patriarchal custom of oppressing women, women were allowed to be ordained as deacons. They may have also functioned as priests and bishops, but the truth has been ruthlessly suppressed since the Middle Ages.
 
what did the early church’s mass look like? Did the priest face twards the tabernacle or to the people? Was the alter more like the tridentine mass alter or the novus ordo mass alter? I’ve heard some people say that they believe that the novus ordo mass is more like the mass of the early church becuase it is less complex, but many traditionalists say that the tridentine latin mass is closer to the origional litergies. What should we make of this?
6glargento…if you want to go waaay back and see where all the customs of the Mass came from, I would highly recommend an old book by Father James Meagher, entitled
How Christ Said the First Mass Published by Tan it is available at amazon.com books.
 
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