What did the life and death of Christ accomplish?

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Reformed said:
I do embrace all 5 points as biblical truth. I’m not sure if your excellent questions represent what 5 point Calvinists actually believes. I don’t think someone needs to embrace 5 points of Calvinisms to be saved, nor do they need to embrace election and predestination to be saved. I’ll start a 5 points thread so we can discuss them better.
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Thank you for replying. I will look for the new thread as I would really like to learn more about the TULIP formula.
 
Reformed said:
If you don’t think the battle between Pelagius and Augustine is related to what Christ accomplished in His life and death, then maybe you should ask your local Roman Catholic theologian. 🙂
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Do you not see the irony in your argument?

You reject writings from the early Church fathers when they speak supporting Catholicism, yet you bring out Church doctors when you feel you have found one part that favors your theological views.

It appears everything you read is “sound bytes”. That is, only parts that you like or can twist to fit your view. That’s like what I’ve told you about Christ, the fullness of truth. When you only have a part of the truth, is it still truth?
 
historyb said:
Yep God lead him home too, maybe even you someday.
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Please help me understand why Rome is home when Scripture teaches that we are aliens in this world. Our home is not Rome, but our home is not of this world.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Do you not see the irony in your argument?

You reject writings from the early Church fathers when they speak supporting Catholicism, yet you bring out Church doctors when you feel you have found one part that favors your theological views.

It appears everything you read is “sound bytes”. That is, only parts that you like or can twist to fit your view. That’s like what I’ve told you about Christ, the fullness of truth. When you only have a part of the truth, is it still truth?
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I also don’t understand the claim of fullness of truth? God is infinite and we are not. Not one Christian or Catholic Christian has been perfected in this lifetime. Do you think the fullness of truth is contained in Roman Catholicism? People tell me that we can’t put got in a box. I believe Scripture contains authoratative revelation from God, but does not contain the fullness of truth about God. Scripture is sufficient revelation from God, but not complete knowledge about God.

I think the term fullness of the truth puts God in the box of Roman Catholicism. God is much much bigger than that.
 
Reformed said:
I also don’t understand the claim of fullness of truth? God is infinite and we are not. Not one Christian or Catholic Christian has been perfected in this lifetime. Do you think the fullness of truth is contained in Roman Catholicism?
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Christ is the fullness of truth. Christ created his living Church, which eventually became called the Catholic Church. St. Ignatius, who was a disciple to St. John, the disciple whom Jesus loved, and also appointed by St. Peter, was the first to use the term Catholic. Therefore, I do believe the fullness of truth can be found in Catholicism, at least what is humanly possible to find in this lifetime.
A letter written by Ignatius to Christians in Smyrna [3] around 1 is the earliest surviving witness to the use of the term Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrnaeans, 8). By Catholic Church Ignatius designated the Christian Church in its universal aspect, excluding heretics, such as those who disavow “the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again” (Smyrnaeans, 7).
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While there was Christ, who was perfect, we can only strive through our faith, love, devotion and seeking God to hope to achieve the very fullness of truth itself, which will be in the life to come. Until that time we should seek as much of the truth as we humanly can.

Now, I’m not saying you don’t have a part of the truth, but I feel you are missing on as much truth as can be sought in this lifetime.
People tell me that we can’t put got in a box. I believe Scripture contains authoratative revelation from God, but does not contain the fullness of truth about God. Scripture is sufficient revelation from God, but not complete knowledge about God.
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I think the term fullness of the truth puts God in the box of Roman Catholicism. God is much much bigger than that.
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The same as you say God is much bigger than Catholicism, would you not agree that God is much bigger than scriptures?

(Notice I don’t ask for scriptural proof that scripture is sufficient revelation from God. You and I both know it’s not there.)

Using your analogy of a box, let’s say all the fullness of truth were in that box. We believe Catholicism is the box, that Christ Himself created. Protestantism has pulled parts out of the box and left much of it behind.
 
THe Fullness of truth relates to revealed truth not all truth but only what has been revealed to us through his church, which he of course built upon Peter.

My question from your last post is, you actually believe that no CHristian or "Catholic Christian has been prefected in this lifetime. Does that mean that there is no one in heaven?

Peace!
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Christ is the fullness of truth. Christ created his living Church, which eventually became called the Catholic Church. St. Ignatius, who was a disciple to St. John, the disciple whom Jesus loved, and also appointed by St. Peter, was the first to use the term Catholic. Therefore, I do believe the fullness of truth can be found in Catholicism, at least what is humanly possible to find in this lifetime.

While there was Christ, who was perfect, we can only strive through our faith, love, devotion and seeking God to hope to achieve the very fullness of truth itself, which will be in the life to come. Until that time we should seek as much of the truth as we humanly can.

Now, I’m not saying you don’t have a part of the truth, but I feel you are missing on as much truth as can be sought in this lifetime.

The same as you say God is much bigger than Catholicism, would you not agree that God is much bigger than scriptures?

(Notice I don’t ask for scriptural proof that scripture is sufficient revelation from God. You and I both know it’s not there.)

Using your analogy of a box, let’s say all the fullness of truth were in that box. We believe Catholicism is the box, that Christ Himself created. Protestantism has pulled parts out of the box and left much of it behind.
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If Catholicism was the box that God created for us, I would be a Roman Catholic Christian. I think the Protestant Reformation was about the actual box of God is contained in the Scriptures alone. That is why it will always be difficult to come to agreements on Christian Truth. Your box is much much larger than my box. But who has the true box of God for His elect?
 
prodigal-sun said:
THe Fullness of truth relates to revealed truth not all truth but only what has been revealed to us through his church, which he of course built upon Peter.

My question from your last post is, you actually believe that no CHristian or "Catholic Christian has been prefected in this lifetime. Does that mean that there is no one in heaven?

Peace!
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That’s why you have purgatory, and I have the imputed righteousness of Christ (perfect righteousness). 🙂 How do you reconcile absent from the body is present with the Lord and purgatory?
 
Reformed said:
So you are an Arminian Roman Catholic? Please look for the predestination thread and you will find that some Roman Catholics embrace predestination or even double predestination to the praise and glory of God.
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There is no such thing as an “Arminian” Roman Catholic. Arminianism has it’s roots in Protestantism and embraces Protestant principles. Moreover, the Catholic Church teaches predestination.🙂

God Bless,
Michael
 
Reformed said:
That’s why you have purgatory, and I have the imputed righteousness of Christ (perfect righteousness). 🙂 How do you reconcile absent from the body is present with the Lord and purgatory?
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Is Christ not alway with us? Even to the end of the age?

Purgatory is not a separation from our Lord.
Purgatory is getting a final cleansing before seeing Him face to face.

As one of my fave t-shirts says…
Purgatory…beacuse…
You can’t go the the Father looking like that!
 
Reformed said:
That’s why you have purgatory, and I have the imputed righteousness of Christ (perfect righteousness). 🙂 How do you reconcile absent from the body is present with the Lord and purgatory?
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??? YOu make less and less sense the moreyou right! I don’t know maybe it’s me, I can be a bit thick sometimes. By what you write here your understanding of purgatory is faulty which of course is no shocker. I’m more intersted in your statement about Christ’s imputed rightouesness. You say you have it… while I agree Christ is perfectly righteous I would disagree that you have it!

By the way you did not answer my question! If no one is perfected in this lifetime is there no one in heaven?
 
Reformed said:
If Catholicism was the box that God created for us, I would be a Roman Catholic Christian. I think the Protestant Reformation was about the actual box of God is contained in the Scriptures alone. That is why it will always be difficult to come to agreements on Christian Truth. Your box is much much larger than my box. But who has the true box of God for His elect?
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I’m not sure you understood what I was trying to say.

God is the box that contains the Church, traditions/sacraments and scriptures. Protestantism took the scriptures and a couple of sacraments and feel they have the fullness of truth. Catholicism has what was taken by Protestants and more.

Since you’ve pointed twice at scriptures alone, I’ll have to ask where that teaching comes from? It doesn’t appear to come from scriptures.
 
Reformed said:
If Catholicism was the box that God created for us, I would be a Roman Catholic Christian. I think the Protestant Reformation was about the actual box of God is contained in the Scriptures alone. That is why it will always be difficult to come to agreements on Christian Truth. Your box is much much larger than my box. But who has the true box of God for His elect?
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Never attempt to put God in a box. There is no Box large enough to contain Him.
 
Crystal_H said:
Is Christ not alway with us? Even to the end of the age?

Purgatory is not a separation from our Lord.
Purgatory is getting a final cleansing before seeing Him face to face.

As one of my fave t-shirts says…
Purgatory…beacuse…
You can’t go the the Father looking like that!
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Yes! Like I said in my last post, I think his understanding of pugatory is faulty

Peace!
 
Reformed said:
Please help me understand why Rome is home when Scripture teaches that we are aliens in this world. Our home is not Rome, but our home is not of this world.
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Rome is your home too, your just to stubborn to let go and let God have control. We don’t believe in Sola Scriptura
 
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