What did the USCCB mean by "may"?

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Over in the World News Forum, the question of abortion, and how this shold affect one’s vote, has come up again, as usual. As usual, there was this HUGE divide between “we are not single issue voters” and “yes, we must be single issue voters”. Here is the paragraph in question…:coffeeread:

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

As Catholics we are not single-issue voters. A candidate’s position on a single
issue is not sufficient to guarantee a voter’s support. Yet a candidate’s position on a
single issue that involves an intrinsic evil, such as support for legal abortion or the
promotion of racism, may legitimately lead a voter to disqualify a candidate from receiving support. :highprayer:

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Notice that “may”. The anti-abortion crowd wants that to mean “must”. I thought the whole sentence was something along the lines of “We would prefer that you not be single issue voters, but if you must vote Republican, no matter what, that is acceptable also.” :hmmm:

Note 1: I use Democrat to mean pro-abortion and Republican to mean anti-aborton. That is really what it all comes down to, right?

Note 2: I do NOT use the word “intrinsic” to mean “infinite”.:tsktsk: It means something like “always”.

Your (polite) thoughts on what the Bishops were trying to say would be appreciated.:yup:
 
Your (polite) thoughts on what the Bishops were trying to say would be appreciated.:yup:
I do not equate the statements of the USCCB with the moral guidance of “the bishops”. My own bishop made it very clear that we could not support abortion-supporting candidates in good conscience.

My own take is that the USCCB spokespeople want to shift position because they got burned by this administration and lost a lot of financial support when in 2008 they almost seemed to approve of voting for abortion in order to accomplish other political goals, but don’t yet dare to actually say “Catholics should not support abortion-supporting candidates under penalty of sin.”
 
Our U.S. government licensed the “murder of the innocents”. The U.S. government is forcing faithful Catholics to be a “one issue voter.”

Once abortion is abolished in the United States, then we are free to vote for whichever candidate best serves our tax dollars.
 
I do not equate the statements of the USCCB with the moral guidance of “the bishops”. My own bishop made it very clear that we could not support abortion-supporting candidates in good conscience.

My own take is that the USCCB spokespeople want to shift position because they got burned by this administration and lost a lot of financial support when in 2008 they almost seemed to approve of voting for abortion in order to accomplish other political goals, but don’t yet dare to actually say “Catholics should not support abortion-supporting candidates under penalty of sin.”
Cardinal Burke summed it up nicely:

“*No, you can never vote for someone who favors absolutely what’s called the ‘right to choice’ of a woman to destroy human life in her womb, or the right to a procured abortion,” he said.

“You may in some circumstances where you don’t have any candidate who is proposing to eliminate all abortion, choose the candidate who will most limit this grave evil in our country, but you could never justify voting for a candidate who not only does not want to limit abortion but believes that it should be available to everyone,” he said.
*

We MAY vote for a canodate who supports abortion IF his opponet is more pro-abortion than he is. We are not required to vote for a canidate merely becuase they are pro-life
 
A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia. When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favor of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.
– Card J. Ratzinger archden.org/dcr/news.php?e=89&s=1&a=2134

Besides, there is one thing I find truly amusing here.

American voters seem to believe that the US president has powers necessary to limit abortion, when in reality this power lies with the legislative and the judiciary.

The US president, on the other hand, does directly command the world’s largest military and controls about 40% of the world’s total inventory of nuclear weapons and does not really answer to anyone on how he decides to use these things.

Consider the following scenario which, unfortunately, is not improbable:

Candidate A: I will uphold the current abortion law and I will end the war by recalling our troops home!.

Candidate B: I will ban abortion and I will win the war by launching nukes on our enemies!

A crowd of pro-lifers: Vote B! Vote B!

Cut to: A bright flash over New York, followed by a rising mushroom cloud.

Voiceover: Remember kids, abortion, unlike war, is always wrong!
 
– Card J. Ratzinger archden.org/dcr/news.php?e=89&s=1&a=2134

Besides, there is one thing I find truly amusing here.

American voters seem to believe that the US president has powers necessary to limit abortion, when in reality this power lies with the legislative and the judiciary.
On his third day in office Obama released funds to overseas abortion providers. He has also had huis justice depr sue any State which tried to cut funds off from abortion prociders. He also appointed two por-abortion judges t the USSC Your assertion that the presdient has no power in this area is simply not true
The US president, on the other hand, does directly command the world’s largest military and controls about 40% of the world’s total inventory of nuclear weapons and does not really answer to anyone on how he decides to use these things.

Consider the following scenario which, unfortunately, is not improbable:

Candidate A: I will uphold the current abortion law and I will end the war by recalling our troops home!.

Candidate B: I will ban abortion and I will win the war by launching nukes on our enemies!

A crowd of pro-lifers: Vote B! Vote B!

Cut to: A bright flash over New York, followed by a rising mushroom cloud.

Voiceover: Remember kids, abortion, unlike war, is always wrong!
Nonsense. Absurd scenarios seem to be one the primary defenses of those trying to defend supporting intrinsic evil
 
Our U.S. government licensed the “murder of the innocents”. The U.S. government is forcing faithful Catholics to be a “one issue voter.”

Once abortion is abolished in the United States, then we are free to vote for whichever candidate best serves our tax dollars.
This sort of stuff makes the rounds double time In US presidential years.

Yet, it has now been almost 39 years since abortion was legalized nationwide in the USA. It happened when a Republican was president. Since then, we have had eight administrations, 5 Republicans, 3 Democrats.

That was five chances to prevent or repeal legalized abortion. It did not happen.

So I wouldn’t equate presidential Republicans with pro-life. And remember, to be fully pro-life involves more than pregnancy.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA
 
This sort of stuff makes the rounds double time In US presidential years.

Yet, it has now been almost 39 years since abortion was legalized nationwide in the USA. It happened when a Republican was president. Since then, we have had eight administrations, 5 Republicans, 3 Democrats.

That was five chances to prevent or repeal legalized abortion. It did not happen.

So I wouldn’t equate presidential Republicans with pro-life. And remember, to be fully pro-life involves more than pregnancy.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA
Your opinion on the effectiveness of the Republican attempts to end/limit abortion is totally irrelevant as to whether a Catholic can vote got a pro-abortion canidate
 
Thanks, I stand corrected.

Strictly speaking, that has not been the case recently:
WIKIPEDIA:
The Doctrine for Joint Nuclear Operations was a U.S. Department of Defense document publicly discovered in 2005 on the circumstances under which commanders of U.S. forces could request the use of nuclear weapons. The document was a draft being revised to be consistent with the Bush doctrine of preemptive attack.

The doctrine cites 8 reasons under which field commanders can ask for permission to use nuclear weapons:
An enemy using or threatening to use WMD against US, multinational, or alliance forces or civilian populations.
To prevent an imminent biological attack.
To attack enemy WMD or its deep hardened bunkers containing WMD that could be used to target US or its allies.
To stop potentially overwhelming conventional enemy forces.
To rapidly end a war on favorable US terms.
To make sure US and international operations are successful.
To show US intent and capability to use nuclear weapons to deter enemy from using WMDs.
To react to enemy-supplied WMD use by proxies against US and international forces or civilians.
…]
In 2010 U.S. President Barack Obama, in a Nuclear Posture Review, announced a new policy that is much stricter about when the U.S. would order a nuclear strike.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrine_for_Joint_Nuclear_Operations

My example has been purposely exaggerated to demonstrate the folly of advocating single-issue voting. Nevertheless, I maintain that a voter may judge in good conscience that a pro-life politician’s pro-war stance is a proportionate reason to vote for a pro-choice candidate. Also, this applies more at higher levels of government; I don’t think that particular justification can be made at the state level or lower.
 
Thanks, I stand corrected.

Strictly speaking, that has not been the case recently:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrine_for_Joint_Nuclear_Operations

My example has been purposely exaggerated to demonstrate the folly of advocating single-issue voting. Nevertheless, I maintain thethat a voter may judge in good conscience that a pro-life politician’s pro-war stance is a proportionate reason to vote for a pro-choice candidate. Also, this applies more at higher levels of government; I don’t think that particular justification can be made at the state level or lower.
the Pope specically said that support of the war was not a proportionate reason for a Catholic to vote for a pro- abortion canidate
 
It means that a candidate’s position on an issue might disqualify you from voting for him. Because there could always be a candidate who has even worse positions. But when you take the whole faithful citizenship guide into account, I don’t know how you could still justify voting for a pro-choice/abortion candidate. I mean, just look at #26:

Above all, the common outcry, which is justly made on behalf
of human rights—for example, the right to health, to home,
to work, to family, to culture—is false and illusory if the right to
life, the most basic and fundamental right and the condition
for all other personal rights, is not defended with maximum
determination.
 
‘Faithful Citizenship’ needs radical revision. It is not specific enough. It is not in keeping with comments made by Pope Benedict on the issue of abortion and voting. People are using selected quotes from Faithful Citizenship to rationalize their voting for a pro abortion candidate.

Apparently dozens of individual Bishops have issued clarifications on the confusion of the document.

Archbishop Raymond Burke believes that Faithful Citizenship helped ensure the election of Obama.
*
Archbishop Raymond Burke, the prefect of the Apostolic Signatura, named a document on the election produced by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops that he said “led to confusion” among the faithful and led ultimately to massive support among Catholics for Barack Obama.

The US bishops’ document, “Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship,” stated that, under certain circumstances, a Catholic could in good conscience vote for a candidate who supports abortion because of “other grave reasons,” as long as they do not intend to support that pro-abortion position.

Archbishop Burke, the former Archbishop of St. Louis Mo. and recently appointed head of the highest ecclesiastical court in the Catholic Church, told LifeSiteNews.com that although “there were a greater number of bishops who spoke up very clearly and firmly … there was also a number who did not.”

But most damaging, he said, was the document “Faithful Citizenship” that “led to confusion” among the voting Catholic population.

“While it stated that the issue of life was the first and most important issue, it went on in some specific areas to say ‘but there are other issues’ that are of comparable importance without making necessary distinctions.”

Archbishop Burke, citing an article by a priest and ethics expert of St. Louis archdiocese, Msgr. Kevin McMahon, who analysed how the bishops’ document actually contributed to the election of Obama, called its proposal “a kind of false thinking, that says, ‘there’s the evil of taking an innocent and defenceless human life but there are other evils and they’re worthy of equal consideration.’

“But they’re not. The economic situation, or opposition to the war in Iraq, or whatever it may be, those things don’t rise to the same level as something that is always and everywhere evil, namely the killing of innocent and defenceless human life.”

Archbishop Burke also cited the work of the official news service of the US Catholic Bishops’ Conference, that many pro-life observers complained soft-pedalled the newly elected president’s opposition to traditional morality.

“The bishops need to look also at our Catholic News Service, CNS, they need to review their coverage of the whole thing and give some new direction, in my judgement,” he said.
lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2009/jan/09012805

When you have a leading Vatican prelate speak out on the problems of USSCB document, something is wrong.

Bishop Vasa who contributed to the ‘Faithful Citizenship’ document has rejected the spin that the document excuses people to vote for a pro abortion candidate:

“When we were working on the document ‘Faithful Citizenship’, and the issue of whether or not a person’s adamant pro-abortion position was a disqualifying condition, the general sense was ‘yes that is a disqualifying condition’.”

lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/1980/91/8091203

Bishops Kevin Vann and Kevin Farrell have said there are no “‘truly grave moral’ or ‘proportionate’ reasons, singularly or combined, that could outweigh the millions of innocent human lives that are directly killed by legal abortion each year.”

prolifedallas.org/pages/Joint_Statement

Bishop Joseph Martino has gone as far as to say:

‘‘No USCCB document is relevant in this diocese. The USCCB doesn’t speak for me.’’

The diocese released in statement which said Bishop Martino was “concerned because of the confusion and public misrepresentations about Catholic teaching on the life issues.”

“Certain groups and individuals have used their own erroneous interpretations of Church documents, particularly the U.S. Bishops’ statement on Faithful Citizenship, to justify their political positions and to contradict the Church’s actual teaching on the centrality of abortion, euthanasia and embryonic stem cell research,” the statement said.


lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2008/oct/08102212

I believe there are two situations where a Catholic could vote for a pro abortion candidate:
  1. When there is there is no pro life candidate, and you vote for a candidate who is the lesser of two evils, who is electable but may lessen the number of abortions than another would e.g. Candidate A, a candidate who is in favor of laws protecting abortions rights only in the case of rape and incest. Candidate B, who is in favor of unrestricted abortion rights. You could vote for candidate A.
You would vote for the lesser of two evils, to save some lives.
  1. There may be a case that you could vote for a pro choice alternative if there is a pro life candidate who was say, a pro life Islamic terrorist. The pro lifer would have to advocate unspeakable crime.
Introductory note added to Faithful Citizenship says:

“It [Faithful Citizenship]* does not offer a quantitative listing of issues for equal consideration*, but outlines and makes important distinctions among moral issues acknowledging that some involve the clear obligation to oppose intrinsic evils which can never be justified and that others require action to pursue justice and promote the common good.” (Emphasis added)

It also says “Although it has at times been misused to present an incomplete or distorted view of the demands of faith in politics…’’
 
Name a Democrat politician who is truly pro life in terms of abortion, euthanasia, contraception and embryonic stem cell research?
 
This sort of stuff makes the rounds double time In US presidential years.

Yet, it has now been almost 39 years since abortion was legalized nationwide in the USA. It happened when a Republican was president. Since then, we have had eight administrations, 5 Republicans, 3 Democrats.

That was five chances to prevent or repeal legalized abortion. It did not happen.

So I wouldn’t equate presidential Republicans with pro-life. And remember, to be fully pro-life involves more than pregnancy.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA
The President can not override the Supreme Court
 
Possibly a local one. You never know.
There was a truly prolife candidate who ran for sheriff here a few years back. Otherwise, there hasn’t been one on my ballot for years and years. I have, a number of times on CAF see some national Democrat candidate touted as prolife, but if you look at his voting record, NARAL rating, he’s actually not. There might be some representative or other somewhere that only the locals know.
 
As Catholics we are not single-issue voters. A candidate’s position on a single issue is not sufficient to guarantee a voter’s support. Yet a candidate’s position on a single issue that involves an intrinsic evil, such as support for legal abortion or the promotion of racism, may legitimately lead a voter to disqualify a candidate from receiving support.

Your (polite) thoughts on what the Bishops were trying to say would be appreciated.:yup:
BVM, the bishops revised the Faithful Citizenship document not long ago in 2011. The new introduction includes these words:

“It does not offer a voters guide, scorecard of issues or direction on how to vote”.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1103920.htm

My thought is clearly since the bishops are not giving direction on how to vote, “may” means “can” or “might”. Not “must”.

God bless and peace be with you.
 
The President can not override the Supreme Court
This is true BUT the President nominates the Justices and therefore has a great effect on future rulings. Since Justices have no restriction on the length of their servixe, whom a President nominates can affect our processes for decades.
 
BVM, the bishops revised the Faithful Citizenship document not long ago in 2011. The new introduction includes these words:

“It does not offer a voters guide, scorecard of issues or direction on how to vote”.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1103920.htm

My thought is clearly since the bishops are not giving direction on how to vote, “may” means “can” or “might”. Not “must”.

God bless and peace be with you.
Of course, if they said “must”, the IRS would be all over them. Guaranteed.
 
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