What Did the Virgin Mary Do When Jesus Was Crucified?

[Matt86]

Even if the Roman army was completely efficient and ruthless, that doesn’t mean a mourning mother couldn’t have done something. Especially if she was the ‘most perfect’ creature ever (as Mary supposedly is).

OK I’ll bite. What could a jewish mother do as her child was shot then thrown into a pit of dead bodies in eastern europe during WWII? Stand up to the soldiers committing these atrocities? What do you actually expect a Woman to do, particularly in the society she lived in where women had a hard time as it was being heard and respected (see the Woman caught in adultery, John ch 8).

I think it’s fair to say that Mary mourned, as any human mother would, naturally. But seeing as she had stored all the things up in her heart, she would have been aware of her Son’s triumph through the cross. Its safe to say she was rejoicing at the same time.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

I personally think the best example of what she might have done was in The Passion of The Christ movie. It brings me to tears everytime I watch it when I see our Blessed Mother remembering Jesus as a child when He fell down. You could feel her heart breaking throughout every scene she is in. I myself am not a mother (yet) but knowing what my mother went through with trying to make sure we always had enough even if she went without, I couldn’t imagine what Mary went through, not only as a mother, but as the Mother of God. She is far from weak in my opinion. She is the epitome of selfless motherly love and of complete surrender to God. In the days of Jesus, women had very little influence, if any so what she did was amazing, going along the way of the cross with Him. The fact that she was at the foot of the cross watching her son die but still heeding His words makes her a very strong person in my book. We need to be more like her by heeding Jesus’ words no matter how bad our situation may seem or how helpless we feel to change anything.

This is the hardest scene to watch in any movie ever. I cry just thinking about it. I haven’t even seen it since I became a mother. I don’t think I want to.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Are you trying to say she should have thrown herself onto the soldiers’ spears to save her Son? That’s what would have happened if she had tried to interfere. You wanted Mary to be killed too? What would that have accomplished? She could have screamed imprecations at those killing her Son, and what good would would it have done? What power do you think she had as a perfect person? If her Son wouldn’t call on the angels to save him, you think she should have? What, and go against his own wishes–defeat his purpose? Do you think human love the highest form of love? That mother love is greater than any other love? Just what are you trying to say by saying she should have done something? We can’t read your mind, dear friend. ** Just come right out and tell us**.

Very well then.

A ‘perfect’ person should be defined by more than what she lacks (as the Virgin Mary is in Catholic theology).

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Obviously being an atheist you probably are immune to understanding the Incarnation. Mary was a willing participant in the plan of God to bring salvation to mankind. B] As an atheist that is a whole lot of nothing to you.

Well yes.

I don’t have much sympathize for a character who feels the need to sacrifice himself (God the Son) to appease himself (God the Father) and in order to play a system created by himself (God).

When examined logically, the whole thing frankly seems rather convoluted and masochistic.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

:yup: Not unlike - in fact the perfection of - Abraham’s willingness to sacrifice his son.

When you put it like that, Christianity sounds like a religion that’s all about human sacrifice. Albeit one where the emphasis is on quality (the Son of God) rather than quantity.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

“In your descendants all the nations of the earth shall find blessing – all this because you obeyed my command.”*
Genesis 22, 18*

A god who values slavish obedience over all other things is one unworthy of worship. Fear or dread perhaps (if he is truly powerful) but not respect or worship.

 

[Good_Fella]

A god who values slavish obedience over all other things is one unworthy of worship. Fear or dread perhaps (if he is truly powerful) but not respect or worship.

I take it you refused to honour and adore your parents when you were a child because you were expected to be obedient to them.

It is our love that God values above all things, and where there is love there is no fear or dread. Abraham was prepared to sacrifice his son Isaac out of love for God and faith in God’s love for him, certain that it was for a greater good. He did not obey God for fear of being punished. What he feared was offending the One whom he loved and trusted above all creation and who first loved him.

Hopefully you obeyed your parents when you were a child for fear of hurting their feelings rather than being punished.

There is no fear in love, for perfect love casts out fear.
1 John 4, 18

PAX :heaven:

 

[AngryAtheist8]

**I take it you refused to honour and adore your parents when you were a child because you were expected to be obedient to them.
**

Then you are making a pretty big (and incorrect) assumption.

I respected my parents, cared for them, and even looked up to them.
But I did not fear them.

And they certainly never demanded unquestioning obedience (as the Christian God does).

 

[AngryAtheist8]

I take it you refused to honour and adore your parents when you were a child because you were expected to be obedient to them.

It is our love that God values above all things, and where there is love there is no fear or dread. Abraham was prepared to sacrifice his son Isaac out of love for God and faith in God’s love for him, certain that it was for a greater good. He did not obey God for fear of being punished. What he feared was offending the One whom he loved and trusted above all creation and who first loved him.

Hopefully you obeyed your parents when you were a child for fear of hurting their feelings rather than being punished.

There is no fear in love, for perfect love casts out fear.
1 John 4, 18

PAX :heaven:

Then why are ‘good’ Christian males commonly described (even by other Christians) as “God fearing men”?

 

[Della]

Very well then.

A ‘perfect’ person should be defined by more than what she lacks (as the Virgin Mary is in Catholic theology).

I’m afraid you don’t know Catholic theology very well. Mary isn’t defined by what she lacks (I assume you are referring to her lack of the stain of original sin). Mary is defined by her virtues. If you were to read more deeply into Catholic theology you would see that Mary embodied all the virtues.

What does that mean? It means that she possessed wisdom beyond mere human understanding because her will was in perfect tune with God’s will in all things. And wisdom is knowing when and what we ought to do, even if the doing costs us personally.

God is not just another person who thinks and acts like you and me. He is the ultimate mind, the ultimate soul, the ultimate heart. He desires our complete obedience and love for two reasons: 1) because he is our true home (we were made to enjoy union with him) and 2) because he knows nothing and no one else can satisfy us.

If you are angry it’s because you expect God to be like yourself, only better. He isn’t. He’s not like me or you or anyone else we will ever know on this earth. He knows what he is doing and why and he asks that we trust him, he who made us. If you want to rail against him, you can do that, but it won’t change who he is and what he wants for you.

And yes, God sacrificed himself to satisfy his own justice. He didn’t ask anyone else to do it. That is the very definition of unselfishness. What more could anyone ask of the God who made us than that he take the onus of redeeming us upon himself even though it was we who messed up and not him?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Then why are ‘good’ Christian males commonly described (even by other Christians) as “God fearing men”?

The fear of the Lord is not a servile fear.

It is one of the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit (remember those?)

Just as today we think of the word ‘awful’ and only associate it with terror, while the original ‘awe-ful’ meant to be in awe of --with the connotation of wonder and delight as well–

People associate ‘fear of the Lord’ only with terror and being ‘scared’.

We ‘fear’ the Lord the same way (and from the same kind of translation of the original time) that we are in ‘awe’ of his “awful Majesty”. . . It’s not a bad feeling of ‘mean old God’ but a good feeling of “Mighty and wonderful God, who has deigned to give life to puny little me, how grateful I am to you and how HUMBLED I feel to contemplate your glory!”

You might not have been AFRAID of your parents, friend, but I’m willing to bet that you were (or should have been) ‘fearful’ of **not living up to their loving care and kindness. Of DISAPPOINTING them through your faults and failings. **

 

[inkaneer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by inkaneer
Obviously being an atheist you probably are immune to understanding the Incarnation. Mary was a willing participant in the plan of God to bring salvation to mankind. ** As an atheist that is a whole lot of nothing to you.**

Well yes.

I don’t have much sympathize for a character who feels the need to sacrifice himself (God the Son) to appease himself (God the Father) and in order to play a system created by himself (God).

When examined logically, the whole thing frankly seems rather convoluted and masochistic.

Well, no wonder you are an atheist. It’s like the old computer expression, “GIGO” [Garbage in, Garbage out]. You want to blame God for everything that man did. Creation was an act of love on the part of God to bring into existence things that never were and man was the pinacle of the creation for only man was created with free will. Everything else operates on natural instinct and is bound to that natural instinct. Man, however, was given the power of choice. He could choose good or he could choose evil. Unfortunately man chose evil over good and in the process was wounded to the point where man could not [and still cannot] correct that fateful decision. It took a loving God to redeem mankind. For by man’s act of disobedience death entered into creation therefore it would take an act of obedience unto death to redeem man. It has nothing to do with appeasement and everything to do with redemption. And what you see as convoluted and masochistic is really an act of mercy coupled with justice available to all who accept it. Unfortunately you, it appears, have denied yourself that mercy therefore you can expect justice with no mercy.

 

[Good_Fella]

Then you are making a pretty big (and incorrect) assumption.

I respected my parents, cared for them, and even looked up to them.
But I did not fear them.

And they certainly never demanded unquestioning obedience (as the Christian God does).

Which explains why you find obedience aversive. Perhaps you were never punished as a child for misbehaviour and allowed to do whatever you pleased however irrational and detrimental to yourself it may have been, unless you realized otherwise how correct your parents were in their judgment for your own good and wellbeing. You do claim that unquestioning obedience was never required of you, meaning you never had to conform your will to that of your parents if you didn’t want to. I can see how your rebellious nature was shaped. Perhaps your parents looked up to you more than you had them. We Christians are willing to conform our will to the Father’s, because we believe he knows what is good for us better than we do. After all, God created us in accordance with his infinite wisdom.

 

[Good_Fella]

Then why are ‘good’ Christian males commonly described (even by other Christians) as “God fearing men”?

What a true Christian male or female should fear is failing to love God for His sake not his or hers. Yet Christians are mindful, without feeling any terrible dread emotionally, of the divine justice of God that could be faced on account of their failure to love him by being disobedient to him. As a child you must have feared being sent to bed early without being able to watch TV if you didn’t do as you were told? Or is it you were allowed to do whatever you wanted because your parents never really cared for you, taking no offense at your critical attitude towards their better judgment?

 

[codeyrolley]

I had at one time a misunderstanding of what is meant to fear God. It implies that your supposed to really strongly respect the God. To strong love Him and all His teachings with passionate obedience like you would look up to the greatest and most loving faithful parents in the universe.

[BIBLEDRB]Luke 15: 11-32[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[inkaneer]

Then why are ‘good’ Christian males commonly described (even by other Christians) as “God fearing men”?

You obviously do not know what it means to “fear God”. It does not mean that we are afraid, frightened or scared of God. The term to fear God uses an older more archaic meaning. It means to have a reverential awe of God or to stand in awe of God’s majesty.

 

[Pawel_J]

What (if anything) did the Virgin Mary do when her son Jesus Christ was crucified?

For that matter, what did the Mother of God do when Jesus was publicly humiliated and tormented before his execution?

What Mary did, we can read only in the Gospel of John. According to this Gospel Mary stood near the Cross during the Crucifixion. Other Gospels do not mention this important fact. Was she really there, than?
The only person mentioned as present at the Cross by all Gospels is Mary Magdalene.
There is another question - where were all the disciples then? Were they not concerned with what happened to their teacher? Or were they simply frightened and hiding somewhere?
Their behavior suggests, they did not fully understand Jesus and his teaching. If His mother Mary did, I would doubt either.

 

[john_aurelius]

Even if the Roman army was completely efficient and ruthless, that doesn’t mean a mourning mother couldn’t have done something. Especially if she was the ‘most perfect’ creature ever (as Mary supposedly is).

Its quite true that on occassion one could bribe Roman magistrates (cf. Paul who was held by Felix and Faustus on the hope that he would offer a bribe).

But, if you look at the trial of Jesus it was rushed thru in 1 night in a successful attempt to have him excecuted. THe Jews were unwilling to do this themselves, just like they couldn’t answer where John the Baptist’s authority came from. So they set up Pilate to do it. Under the Emperor Tiberius, who had just put down an attempted coup by his advisor Sejanus and the Praetorians so no-one felt 'safe.

Pilate was an Imperial delegate and was reminded that he would be repremanded again by Rome (not a pleasant thing) and’also contend with riots in Judaea by Jesus’ opposition (cf. other riots staged by Jews around asia minor in Acts).

Pilate’s wife tried to stop him, again, she was just a woman. Jesus could have stopped it himself when Pilate said he had the authority to kill him or set him free.

Jesus responded that Pilate would’ve had no authority except that from on high.

Peter preached at Pentecost after He (and Mary) received the Holy Spirit in the Upper Room that Jesus was foreordained to be put to death.

Even if she could do as much as your mother AA8, she did what was appropriate at the time. She prepared him for burial…

 

[FCEGM]

Which explains why you find obedience aversive. Perhaps you were never punished as a child for misbehaviour and allowed to do whatever you pleased however irrational and detrimental to yourself it may have been, unless you realized otherwise how correct your parents were in their judgment for your own good and wellbeing. You do claim that unquestioning obedience was never required of you, meaning you never had to conform your will to that of your parents if you didn’t want to. I can see how your rebellious nature was shaped. Perhaps your parents looked up to you more than you had them. We Christians are willing to conform our will to the Father’s, because we believe he knows what is good for us better than we do. After all, God created us in accordance with his infinite wisdom.

Or oftentimes if one’s parents are overly strict (particularly the father), the child perceives God in the same way and then goes on to deny Him as a way to distance himself from his earthly father.

 

[inkaneer]

Even if the Roman army was completely efficient and ruthless, that doesn’t mean a mourning mother couldn’t have done something. Especially if she was the ‘most perfect’ creature ever (as Mary supposedly is).

Well, you obviously have no concept of what the Incarnation was all about. It was more than just God taking on human flesh. The Incarnation was the plan of God for the redemption of mankind. Mary was an integral part of that plan. She knew what fate awaited her Son. For her to intervene as you would want her to do would be to try to foil God’s plan of salvation. Peter also wanted to intervene in God’s plan. The words of Jesus to Peter come to mind for on that occasion Jesus referred to Peter as Satan. I should think the same would apply to you for being like minded.