What do Baptists believe?

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Calgar said:
Like I said: Ministry opportunity. 👍
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Given that I started the previous post with “no disagreement” – I could’ve sworn you were going to respond with that word you love… “Ecumenism!” 😃
 
stewstew03 said:
You obviously mean, “I don’t like judgmental people, but sometimes it’s okay for me to judge others.”

And here is the evidence:

A couple of postscripts, Bix:
  1. You’re missing the point and seem quite willing to dismiss other people’s opinions on this thread while placing a high value on your own.
  2. The fact is that (in response to the OP), Southern Baptists make a concerted effort to convert Catholics. It has nothing to do with Catholic behavior, per se. It has everything to do with lies and myths about Catholic doctrine that are perpetuated by evangelical protestants.
  3. While you are praying for me to “overcome these personal obstacles I’m dealing with” please send up a prayer for yourself. My prayer is that you will come to appreciate the viewpoints of your Catholic brethren - in the same way that you appreciate the anti-Catholic viewpoint.
[BIBLEDRB]Matt 7:5[/BIBLEDRB]
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I said I wasn’t fond of it.
You have used the word, judge, on numerous occasions. Forgive me if I fall as well.

Generally, if one is not being argumentative, there is no need to number one’s statements to make a point, but I digress…

I do not dismiss other’s opinions. Having an opinion which differs from yours or anyone else’s does not equate to dismissing the opinions.

Yes, I value my beliefs, my opinions and myself. Is there something wrong with that???

Perpetuating a nonproductive argument is futile.

I appreciate any and all prayer meant in goodness and Christian love. If they are regrading prayer to help me with my own personal faults - I welcome those. My statements to you were honest, meant in a kind way as I thought you might not realize how you seemed to come accross to me, personally and followed by prayer.

That said-
I do NOT appreciate in ANY way whatsoever you inferring that I am anti Catholic and stating I appreciate anti Catholic viewpoints. Clearly by posting your statements and the Bible passage you are calling me hypocrite as well.

Perhaps you missed the part of the Bible which says that is VERY wrong to use the words of scripture in the manner you did above.
 
Here are a few threads you started, so forgive me If I jumped to the wrong conclusion. Truly. Perhaps I misread.

stewstew03
Join Date: March 30, 2011
Religion: Catholic

Protestant Church, Whore of Babylon
Is the Protestant “Church” the Whore of Babylon?

Characteristics of Protestant Church:
Fornication (lack of fidelity to Christ’s teachings vis-a-vis the Catholic Church);
Sits on many waters and represents different people (self-evident);
Connected with major world powers (North America, Northern Europe predominantly protestant);
Rich (have you seen the protestant mega-churches and their pastors??);
Abominations (disrespect/disregard for the Mother of God; disregard for the Eucharist; health & wealth gospel of some protestant churches; not to mention MANY protestant denominations that allow same-sex marriage or same-sex unions, or do not prohibit abortion);
She persecutes Christians (many evangelical protestants are anti-Catholic or “anti-Rome” and see Catholicism as a "false religion’);
Whore’s authority (spiritual influence over protestants who lead major nation-states - as an example, most of the G8 leaders are protestant, or at least not Catholic);
“Hub” of commerce (North America and Northern Europe, along with China, Japan, and India, dominate commerce).

So, with regard to the identification of the “Whore of Babylon” it seems that Protestantism is a more likely candidate than the Catholic Church.

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Bix said:
What is wrong with them witnessing and seeking others to be saved? What is wrong with them using sctpriptures to lead people to accept Jesus??? This is what we, as Christians, are ALL called to do.

You say Catholics need to be aware like they they are some kind of cult. I’m sorry you had bad a bad experience, but I am from the Bible Belt too and have never felt cornered by a Christian. If we are strong with our own faith, we have a nice discussion and maybe learn something about one another.
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Methinks you are a little confused about how the the Church you have in yoiur ‘religion’ moniker views salvation.
Baptists believe salvation to be a one-time past “event”, a “Holy Zap” it you will. Historically and Biblically, for 1500 years, the Church has said salvation is a life-long process, not an “event”.
Here is the problem Baptists face:
A person (lets say they are a Baptized Catholic) prays the “sinners prayer” and is now assured he will go to Heaven. Nothing can separate him from God.
Now let’s say this same person shows no fruit in his Christian life. The ‘event’ of salvation took place. They got their lifeboat out of Hell and their ticket to Heaven. This ‘event’ is sealed and the Christian is “Once saved always saved”. What happens? The person loses thier fear of God. Why must he live a holy life? Why get upset over sin? The ‘event’ made him right. It creates a spiritual laziness. A presumption.
It creates a dilemma that must be explained. The Christian who “Falls away”.
In order to explain a “Christian” who falls into sin or has no spiritual fruit, they come up with another phrase: “never saved in the first place”.
The ‘event’ really didn’t happen and must be replaced with a genuine ‘event’.
It is the ‘event’ that is at the heart of it all.
The foundation for many who accept OSAS is a fear of falling away. If salvation is a ‘one time “crisis” “event”’ that is in the past tense, and I believe I can never fall away because God said so (or putting words into God’s mouth) than I can never be convinced otherwise. To think otherwise is to doubt God.
Once I 'know 'I’m as ‘sure for Heaven as Jesus’, (actually heard a preacher say that once) I sit on my laurels and pretty much do nothing. Good works? Why? I’m heading for Heaven. It stifles any good done on this earth the end has already been decided.
IF HOWEVER, my entire foundation of salvation is incorrect, (a process, not a one-time event, as the Catholic Church teaches), than what the believer in OSAS is shaken. The whole house of cards comes crashing down and I realize my part in my salvation.
The bottom line is responsibility.
The Catholic Church teaches we are all in the process of working out our salvation with fear and trembling.
 
JustaServant said:
Methinks you are a little confused about how the the Church you have in yoiur ‘religion’ moniker views salvation.
Baptists believe salvation to be a one-time past “event”, a “Holy Zap” it you will. Historically and Biblically, for 1500 years, the Church has said salvation is a life-long process, not an “event”.
Here is the problem Baptists face:
A person (lets say they are a Baptized Catholic) prays the “sinners prayer” and is now assured he will go to Heaven. Nothing can separate him from God.
Now let’s say this same person shows no fruit in his Christian life. The ‘event’ of salvation took place. They got their lifeboat out of Hell and their ticket to Heaven. This ‘event’ is sealed and the Christian is “Once saved always saved”. What happens? The person loses thier fear of God. Why must he live a holy life? Why get upset over sin? The ‘event’ made him right. It creates a spiritual laziness. A presumption.
It creates a dilemma that must be explained. The Christian who “Falls away”.
In order to explain a “Christian” who falls into sin or has no spiritual fruit, they come up with another phrase: “never saved in the first place”.
The ‘event’ really didn’t happen and must be replaced with a genuine ‘event’.
It is the ‘event’ that is at the heart of it all.
The foundation for many who accept OSAS is a fear of falling away. If salvation is a ‘one time “crisis” “event”’ that is in the past tense, and I believe I can never fall away because God said so (or putting words into God’s mouth) than I can never be convinced otherwise. To think otherwise is to doubt God.
Once I 'know 'I’m as ‘sure for Heaven as Jesus’, (actually heard a preacher say that once) I sit on my laurels and pretty much do nothing. Good works? Why? I’m heading for Heaven. It stifles any good done on this earth the end has already been decided.
IF HOWEVER, my entire foundation of salvation is incorrect, (a process, not a one-time event, as the Catholic Church teaches), than what the believer in OSAS is shaken. The whole house of cards comes crashing down and I realize my part in my salvation.
The bottom line is responsibility.
The Catholic Church teaches we are all in the process of working out our salvation with fear and trembling.
Click to expand...
Come on. The belief that “OSAS” means you say a prayer and boom you’re saved forever, no matter what you do, is something I only see espoused on CAF.

Being a Christian is hard. And it’s even harder in America (I believe). Faith without works is dead. I recall Christ actually cursing a tree that did not produce fruit.
 
Calgar,

You say you only see this image of Baptists on CAF as saying, well, " believe in Jesus and I am saved’…

You and fundamentalists have your images of us. And this is the image we see and hear on tv and in conversions…it is like a zap and…then there are those who use this phraseology along with Catholics worship statues and Mary.

Really, Catholicism and fundamentalism is like comparing apples to oranges.

We have a very anti-Catholic Four Square Gospel believer now in our family. We all work to love one another. But it is there, nevertheless…Likewise, this same person has never studied Catholicism professionally, has never been inside a Catholic church or attended a liturgy, but a life long indoctrination against our faith.

You see secular comedians of a certain ilk that defame Christianity in jokes, cartoons, pictures, cariacatures. So much of it is directed against Evangelical and Fundamentalist interpretation not only of Scripture but of Christ Himself.

You don’t see them drawing out universal/Catholic interpretation of Scripture because it coincides with reality, and our approach to it is from a different cultural ecclesial root.

Yes, they will say jokes and slurs about the pope, and cartoons of the bishops with the tall hats, and the lace skirts…but you don’t hear them maligning our Christology and contextual Scripture.

Our worship and its understanding is so completely different from Protestant services, particularly evangelical and fundamentalist…that you can’t compare the two…because they are of two different worlds.

I can recognize the same faith in Christ Himself…in the drawing in healing, in praying the Our Father and the Psalms…the same Spirit at work…the same fruits…and most importantly the gift of gratitude.

For this I venerate the faith of our separated brethren.

It is better to say, well I don’t understand Catholicism or its practices, but I respect them.
 
The other issue I have with the intent of prosletyzing Catholics and drawing them into true Christianity as that practiced by Baptists and others, is that they also do not have the sacrament of marriage.

The sacrament of marriage is one of the 7 sacraments of the universal church. It is permanent. And the gift and blessing of the marriage in Christ is the children.

The customs and practices of our faith is passed down to our children to further solidify our relationship in the Ecclesia, the means for our continue sanctification and our own new life in the Lord that is not of this world, as well as strengthening the bonds of faith among us as family members.

The in-law I spoke to you about has no reserve whatsoever to tell our kin – behind our back – that the world needs to be rid of religion. This is actively breaking the sacred bond we have among each other.

I personally know a Jewish man who became Catholic. And he sees Protestantism as the means that ushered in divorce and the breakdown of society.

So I don’t think the Baptists and others either realize the scope of separation they are doing to Catholics in regards to their more devout members either, and the potential damage and breaking of common faith either. As such, we can no longer at family gatherings pray as openly or share our faith as openly as it is invalidated.

There is alot of ramification to society with the dismantling of the universal church under the guise of ‘reform’.

I do believe this wound will some day be healed…
 
Calgar said:
Come on. The belief that “OSAS” means you say a prayer and boom you’re saved forever, no matter what you do, is something I only see espoused on CAF.
Click to expand...
Are you saying OSAS is a myth?
 
KathleenGee said:
The other issue I have with the intent of prosletyzing Catholics and drawing them into true Christianity as that practiced by Baptists and others, is that they also do not have the sacrament of marriage.

The sacrament of marriage is one of the 7 sacraments of the universal church. It is permanent. And the gift and blessing of the marriage in Christ is the children.

The customs and practices of our faith is passed down to our children to further solidify our relationship in the Ecclesia, the means for our continue sanctification and our own new life in the Lord that is not of this world, as well as strengthening the bonds of faith among us as family members.

The in-law I spoke to you about has no reserve whatsoever to tell our kin – behind our back – that the world needs to be rid of religion. This is actively breaking the sacred bond we have among each other.

I personally know a Jewish man who became Catholic. And he sees Protestantism as the means that ushered in divorce and the breakdown of society.

So I don’t think the Baptists and others either realize the scope of separation they are doing to Catholics in regards to their more devout members either, and the potential damage and breaking of common faith either. As such, we can no longer at family gatherings pray as openly or share our faith as openly as it is invalidated.

There is alot of ramification to society with the dismantling of the universal church under the guise of ‘reform’.

I do believe this wound will some day be healed…
Click to expand...
You bring up an important an uncomfortable point.
An old blog post I wrote five years ago:

When I left the Catholic Church it put a wedge in between me and my mother and sisters. I spent a few years trying to get them to pray a ‘sinner’s prayer’ so they would be ‘saved’. But I never took notice of the division this created in an already divided household.
I noticed in many fundamentalist homes they talk about poor mom and dad, or sis who ‘still goes to the Catholic Church’ and therefore cannot possibly be a Christian.
I have heard of children ***who no longer speak to parents or siblings ***because they are ‘still unsaved’.
For years, after my parents died, I pretty much imagined they were in Hell because they never left the Catholic Church. How does one tell a child grandma and grandpa are burning in Hell because she was Catholic and never ‘prayed the sinner’s prayer’?
I look at fundamentalist families I see endless division. The children rarely follow in their parents footsteps and wind up either in atheism or a cult. Sometimes they will go to a church, but not the church their parents went to.
What kind of legacy are they leaving behind?
They hand their children a puff of wind and say, ‘there’s your inheritance’.
 
KathleenGee said:
Calgar,

You and fundamentalists have your images of us. And this is the image we see and hear on tv and in conversions…it is like a zap and…then there are those who use this phraseology along with Catholics worship statues and Mary.
Click to expand...
You’re putting me into a box and I don’t appreciate it, Kathleen.

I do not believe that Roman Catholics worship statues.

Also, what definition of “fundamentalist” are you using?
 
Aeden said:
People still believe that we worship statues and saints? I don’t know whether to laugh or cry about this! This is something that has been expressly debunked by the Church, no? Are there some Catholics who actually think that we do that?
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I used to think that. I was a cradle Catholic with very poor catechesis,and when I fell in with fundamentalist Baptists in high school, I bought into their views. I saw Catholics going into church, kneeling before statues, lighting candles next to them, and praying. I saw (and still do today) Catholics kissing the feet of Mary’'s statue next to the altar.

I understood these actions to be acts of worship, because I did not know any better.
 
JustaServant said:
Code: 
Most Baptist churches have "altar calls" in which people are invited to "come forward" to "get saved" or "get right with God".
When they come forward they kneel while the preacher stands in the pulpit.
What are they kneeling to?
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The podium? The chairs? I saw a photo once of a kleenex box on the floor just above the heads of the kneeling penitents.

http://wcbc.edu/photos
JustaServant said:
If I were from Alpha Centari would I assume they were kneeling before the preacher, worshiping the preacher?
Assumptions can be dangerous things if one doesn’t ask questions.
Click to expand...
You are quite right. Assumptions can be dangerous even WHEN one asks questions!
 
stewstew03 said:
While you are praying for me to “overcome these personal obstacles I’m dealing with” please send up a prayer for yourself. My prayer is that you will come to appreciate the viewpoints of your Catholic brethren - in the same way that you appreciate the anti-Catholic viewpoint.

[BIBLEDRB]Matt 7:5[/BIBLEDRB]
Click to expand...
I apologized and simply told you why I had thought you had issues with Protestants…

I appreciate prayers.

However, your statements and postings that infer I am a hypocrite and anti Catholic are unjustified, mean and hurtful.

Simply having a different point of view on some matters, does not equate to being anti Catholic.

I have tried several times in many postings to simply state not all Baptists had these misguided beliefs and suggested we embrace them as our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Good luck to you. Good luck to all of you.

This has been an extremely hurtful experience. No wonder there is no Christian unity when this is how we treat each other.
 
KathleenGee said:
Calgar,

You say you only see this image of Baptists on CAF as saying, well, " believe in Jesus and I am saved’…

You and fundamentalists have your images of us. And this is the image we see and hear on tv and in conversions…it is like a zap and…then there are those who use this phraseology along with Catholics worship statues and Mary.

Really, Catholicism and fundamentalism is like comparing apples to oranges.

We have a very anti-Catholic Four Square Gospel believer now in our family. We all work to love one another. But it is there, nevertheless…Likewise, this same person has never studied Catholicism professionally, has never been inside a Catholic church or attended a liturgy, but a life long indoctrination against our faith.
Click to expand...
Who is the very anti-Catholic believer in our family that has never been inside a Catholic Church? :confused:
 
Calgar, what is wrong with ecumenism? I see it as Christians of various denominations working together based on what they have in common.

Is that a problem for you?
 
JustaServant said:
Methinks you are a little confused about how the the Church you have in yoiur ‘religion’ moniker views salvation.
Baptists believe salvation to be a one-time past “event”, a “Holy Zap” it you will. Historically and Biblically, for 1500 years, the Church has said salvation is a life-long process, not an “event”.
Here is the problem Baptists face:
A person (lets say they are a Baptized Catholic) prays the “sinners prayer” and is now assured he will go to Heaven. Nothing can separate him from God.
Now let’s say this same person shows no fruit in his Christian life. The ‘event’ of salvation took place. They got their lifeboat out of Hell and their ticket to Heaven. This ‘event’ is sealed and the Christian is “Once saved always saved”. What happens? The person loses thier fear of God. Why must he live a holy life? Why get upset over sin? The ‘event’ made him right. It creates a spiritual laziness. A presumption.
It creates a dilemma that must be explained. The Christian who “Falls away”.
In order to explain a “Christian” who falls into sin or has no spiritual fruit, they come up with another phrase: “never saved in the first place”.
The ‘event’ really didn’t happen and must be replaced with a genuine ‘event’.
It is the ‘event’ that is at the heart of it all.
The foundation for many who accept OSAS is a fear of falling away. If salvation is a ‘one time “crisis” “event”’ that is in the past tense, and I believe I can never fall away because God said so (or putting words into God’s mouth) than I can never be convinced otherwise. To think otherwise is to doubt God.
Once I 'know 'I’m as ‘sure for Heaven as Jesus’, (actually heard a preacher say that once) I sit on my laurels and pretty much do nothing. Good works? Why? I’m heading for Heaven. It stifles any good done on this earth the end has already been decided.
IF HOWEVER, my entire foundation of salvation is incorrect, (a process, not a one-time event, as the Catholic Church teaches), than what the believer in OSAS is shaken. The whole house of cards comes crashing down and I realize my part in my salvation.
The bottom line is responsibility.
The Catholic Church teaches we are all in the process of working out our salvation with fear and trembling.
Click to expand...
God knows our hearts and at the end of the day, that’s what counts. Sometimes we lose sight of this and become caught up in other things. We need to find a way to unite rather than nitpick each other apart. I know wonderful Baptists and Catholics. I know ones on each side that aren’t so kind. We should find a way to reach, help and understand one another.
 
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