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PRmerger
Guest
Right.
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Stilldreamn
Guest
That’s one of those “makes me squirm” questions - yes, it’s a problem of my own making. I yoked myself to a divorced, apostate Baptist 28 years ago. Because back then, I knew everything!
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PRmerger
Guest
Didn’t mean to make you squirm. Sorry! And, of course, you need not answer any questions here, esp. those of a personal nature.
But here’s one that’s not so personal: what do you mean by “apostate”?
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Stilldreamn
Guest
By apostate Baptist, I mean he has abandoned/renounced the Baptist faith for certain - although he may still retain a sort of agnostic’s belief in “God”.
I don’t know exactly how he feels about specific doctrines, but when he went to church with me when our grandson was baptized at Easter, he nearly walked out over the “bowing at the altar.” He loves and respects me enough to not hinder my practice of faith, but will absolutely not discuss anything to do with “church.”
And you didn’t make me squirm! I have repented of my hard-headed selfishness, lack of faith, willfull disobedience to God and my parents; but have no idea how the marriage situation could be put right. His former wife is still living and he sees NO reason to seek any further justification of his divorce. We have talked about a renewal of vows in church for our marriage, but I find it pointless in view of the existing marriage he actually has.
So there it is, in all it’s sin and messiness. Modern Protestantism at it’s finest.
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PRmerger
Guest
Oh, ok. I didn’t know that Baptists used the term “apostate”.
But just to be clear, your husband would not be considered “apostate” in the Catholic Church.
I applaud you for telling it like it is, Stilldreamn. That is quite honest and frank of you to acknowledge that your husband has an existing marriage.
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nickybr38
Guest
I think this idea that teenagers must be met where they are is silly. Instead, perhaps we should raise our children UP to enjoy the Mass JUST AS IT IS.Hey, if it gets the teens to want to go to Mass and to be excited to sing, I say
You should meet my niece sometime. She has been raised to accept Mass as it is and she is THRILLED to be at Mass on Sunday. She is full of joy, despite the music. She is happy, despite not being given books to keep her occupied or toys to keep her quiet. She has attended since she was very young and NEVER was she allowed to do anything but sit and listen and she is content to do so (like I said, thrilled is a better word really).
People really need to stop meeting children where they ‘are’ and they need to start building children up to where they need to be.
PS: I should add that she was taught to actively participate in Mass so she says the responses and all the gestures.
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PRmerger
Guest
Youth Masses ARE the same Mass “just as it is”.
And I don’t see how the 2 ideas are mutually exclusive. Why not offer teens the music they like AND raise them UP?
It’s like someone arguing about whether Justin Bieber is better than Charlotte Church.
There’s nothing wrong with* either-*-it just depends upon your taste.
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nickybr38
Guest
Because where I’m from, Youth Mass means changing the responses to silly children’s songs (yes, even the MASS PARTS are changed to children’s songs - even the words are changed to be more kid-friendly).
Furthermore, teaching teenagers to put emphasis on music that THEY enjoy, sets up a dangerous mindset for adulthood. What happens when they LEAVE the Church, as adults, because the music at this other Church down the street is more fun and more lively.
I suppose one could offer them music they enjoy and raise them up at the same time but that’s not what I’m seeing so I think it’s safe to see that particular experiment failed where I live. Instead I see teenagers leaving the Church in droves to go to the Baptist church down the street which has better music, more entertaining activities and, in the words of some of the kids, ‘has more spirit in the service’.
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PRmerger
Guest
I think the problem is not in serving up music that’s appealing to teens but not providing catechesis.
It’s objecting to the wrong thing when we object to the music; we ought to object to the teens not being fed the truth.
One can indeed have teen music AND great catechesis.
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PRmerger
Guest
This is poorly worded.
But I can’t think of a way to articulate it without being overly circumlocutious…
Here’s another attempt: finding fault with the music that’s played at teen masses is finding fault in the wrong place.
The fault lies in our Church not provided nourishing truth to these teens so that they don’t go looking for filler someplace else.
How’s that?
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chadair
Guest
This is poorly worded.
But I can’t think of a way to articulate it without being overly circumlocutious…
Here’s another attempt: finding fault with the music that’s played at teen masses is finding fault in the wrong place.
The fault lies in our Church not provided nourishing truth to these teens so that they don’t go looking for filler someplace else.
How’s that?
my biggest complaint with the church is the lack of involvement they have for the youth!!
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Patavium
Guest
I think singing to rock band music, and to powerpoint is slides is ok. Youth groups in Catholic Churches can do this, and perhaps pizza nights and all this. However, they should also get together for the more serious worship by studying the catechesis, and the history of the Catholic Church. What are the three authorities that the Catholic Church uses, and so on?
Advanced lectures could be given for those interested about theology: monergism, synergism, and so on.
Even Book clubs!!!
Advanced lectures could be given for those interested about theology: monergism, synergism, and so on.
Even Book clubs!!!
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JustaServant
Guest
Take it from a former Baptist.
The Church should never, never, never, EVER imitate Baptist worship practices for the purpose of attracting youth.
The Church should never, never, never, EVER imitate Baptist worship practices for the purpose of attracting youth.
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nickybr38
Guest
Take it from a former Baptist.
The Church should never, never, never, EVER imitate Baptist worship practices for the purpose of attracting youth.
Amen.I can’t tell you how many young people I’ve talked to who have moved onto the Baptist church because the music is better and the service is more ‘fun’. Clearly these kids are NOT being taught properly and catering to their music taste is NOT fostering more respect for the Church and isn’t helping the problem.
We need to STAND OUT not conform. And you stand out by sticking to tradition and maintaining dignity.
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JustaServant
Guest
More importantly as they get older the smoke and mirrors will get tiresome.
I can’t tell you how many young people I’ve talked to who have moved onto the Baptist church because the music is better and the service is more ‘fun’. Clearly these kids are NOT being taught properly and catering to their music taste is NOT fostering more respect for the Church and isn’t helping the problem.
We need to STAND OUT not conform. And you stand out by sticking to tradition and maintaining dignity.
You can only scratch itching ears so long.
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Patavium
Guest
I agree, but it is ok if Youth groups want to do this. I don’t mind. I just don’t want the Mass changed, and I certainly don’t approve of any special “interpretations” of the Word of God.
I can’t tell you how many young people I’ve talked to who have moved onto the Baptist church because the music is better and the service is more ‘fun’. Clearly these kids are NOT being taught properly and catering to their music taste is NOT fostering more respect for the Church and isn’t helping the problem.
We need to STAND OUT not conform. And you stand out by sticking to tradition and maintaining dignity.
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nickybr38
Guest
Youth Group is different from the Mass so I agree that there is much more room to stretch.
I understand that people are trying to bring their own vision of beauty into the Mass but we need to be very careful that we aren’t just seeking to please ourselves rather then God.
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peace2u2
Guest
I think your post is so important!I think this idea that teenagers must be met where they are is silly. Instead, perhaps we should raise our children UP to enjoy the Mass JUST AS IT IS.
You should meet my niece sometime. She has been raised to accept Mass as it is and she is THRILLED to be at Mass on Sunday. She is full of joy, despite the music. She is happy, despite not being given books to keep her occupied or toys to keep her quiet. She has attended since she was very young and NEVER was she allowed to do anything but sit and listen and she is content to do so (like I said, thrilled is a better word really).
People really need to stop meeting children where they ‘are’ and they need to start building children up to where they need to be.
PS: I should add that she was taught to actively participate in Mass so she says the responses and all the gestures.
Yes, children who are brought to Church to celebrate Mass at a young age, not only become on fire as adults and usually don’t waiver from their Catholic faith, but also behave better at Mass!
We have many children that once they start formal religious ed have never even been brought to Church before and consistently are not brought even throughout their religious education. Very sad. Especially when you hear the little ones say they want to come to Church on Sunday, but their mother or father or both won’t bring them!
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peace2u2
Guest
Agreed!Take it from a former Baptist.
The Church should never, never, never, EVER imitate Baptist worship practices for the purpose of attracting youth.
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chadair
Guest
I know this is off topic for this thread, but I wish our church would cater more to the youth. I’m not talkin about Mass either. I mean more for things durin the week nights or Sunday nights after Mass.Youth Group is different from the Mass so I agree that there is much more room to stretch.
I understand that people are trying to bring their own vision of beauty into the Mass but we need to be very careful that we aren’t just seeking to please ourselves rather then God.
Every Wednesday my daughter BEGS to go to this church around the corner. She loves the structure of it and has a blast learnin!
Our church is different then most Catholic Churches around I’m assuming. We have a little less then 1500 kids enrolled in School of Religion, but only 28 are anglo saxon kids. So there is a huge seperation in the church. Even in the youth programs. My daughter tried goin to the Teen program on Wednesday nights, but the lack of respect from some of the kids and constantly disrupting the youth leader. So she has made her mind up that she will NEVER go back again.
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