What do Catholic’s believe!

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zcharry said:
The car could stray or you might forget where you park it. It does come with a security system called the Holy Spirit.
You have always had it, you can not lose it, but you can turn your back on it.
You did not help to get the car but you do help to keep it in fine working order. Wash and wax, seat covers, maybe that bouncing dog head in the back window.
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This is why I never get involved with these type of comparisons.

Bobble heads make me dizzy.
 
The best example of the Catholic view of Salvation would be from the Bible, Ephesians 2:8-10 and Galations
We are Saved by God’s Grace, by Faith working through love.

The only way to reject the Catholic view of Salvation is to misrepresent it as some have as a view of us earning the Salvation ourselves. This was rejected by the Catholic Church as heresy at the Council of Orange, but a man named Martin Luther misrepresented Catholic belief to attack it and the lie has persisted ever since. He then espoused an anti-biblical view of “Faith Alone” which is repudiated by the Bible in James 2:24.

In Christ,
Scylla
 
Lets take a look at John chapter 15 and break it down. This I’m taking from a sermon on I heard at Mass but it may help. Jesus in John 15 talks about abiding in him, loving one another, being our friends and asking God for something and it will be done. But there is an order to what Jesus is saying in chapter 15.

First he is saying we need to abide in him. Grace has to take place.

Secondly he is telling us he is our friends.

Thirdly he tell us to love one another.

And finally he says that whatever you ask of the Father he will give you.

John Chapter 15 is a process. The gift is recieved, then it is acted upon in love. Jesus doesnt say abide in me and that is all you have to do. He says love one another which is a work. The gift of the car is a great gift but it takes a work to accept the gift and take care of that gift and be thankfull for that gift and use that gift to build up others (take someone for a spin!.) God Bless You!

Read Chapter 17,18 and 19 of St.Augustines work - Link Below
newadvent.org/fathers/1510.htm
 
scylla said:
The best example of the Catholic view of Salvation would be from the Bible, Ephesians 2:8-10 and Galations
We are Saved by God’s Grace, by Faith working through love.

The only way to reject the Catholic view of Salvation is to misrepresent it as some have as a view of us earning the Salvation ourselves. This was rejected by the Catholic Church as heresy at the Council of Orange, but a man named Martin Luther misrepresented Catholic belief to attack it and the lie has persisted ever since. He then espoused an anti-biblical view of “Faith Alone” which is repudiated by the Bible in James 2:24.

In Christ,
Scylla
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I ask the question because I seem to get mix messages talking with Catholic’s friends outside of the forum, It never seems to be expressed the same way from one person to the next. Even in this thread one said we don’t do anything and then later on says we have to help. It is a very indepth topic that seems to confuse a number of people in the way they express how they view it.
 
zcharry said:
I ask the question because I seem to get mix messages talking with Catholic’s friends outside of the forum, It never seems to be expressed the same way from one person to the next. Even in this thread one said we don’t do anything and then later on says we have to help. It is a very indepth topic that seems to confuse a number of people in the way they express how they view it.
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Thats what happens when we use a car analogy. Why not start out with the real terminology from the start and then, maybe we can be clear?🙂
 
LittleFlower378 said:
Lets take a look at John chapter 15 and break it down. This I’m taking from a sermon on I heard at Mass but it may help. Jesus in John 15 talks about abiding in him, loving one another, being our friends and asking God for something and it will be done. But there is an order to what Jesus is saying in chapter 15.

First he is saying we need to abide in him. Grace has to take place.

Secondly he is telling us he is our friends.

Thirdly he tell us to love one another.

And finally he says that whatever you ask of the Father he will give you.

John Chapter 15 is a process. The gift is recieved, then it is acted upon in love. Jesus doesnt say abide in me and that is all you have to do. He says love one another which is a work. The gift of the car is a great gift but it takes a work to accept the gift and take care of that gift and be thankfull for that gift and use that gift to build up others (take someone for a spin!.) God Bless You!

Read Chapter 17,18 and 19 of St.Augustines work - Link Below
newadvent.org/fathers/1510.htm
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I agree with all you say, expect I’m confused on the part that it takes work to accept a gift. I’m not saying you are wrong in this, but how do you work for a gift? Isn’t a gift something given to you free from work. If work was involed in the gift would that not make it a compensation.
God Bless
 
zcharry said:
I ask the question because I seem to get mix messages talking with Catholic’s friends outside of the forum, It never seems to be expressed the same way from one person to the next. Even in this thread one said we don’t do anything and then later on says we have to help. It is a very indepth topic that seems to confuse a number of people in the way they express how they view it.
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Let me explain then, again it is by Grace we are saved, so a Catholic having Faith would only have it by God’s Grace, anything he does is by God’s Grace working through him. He must Love God but that is also moved by God’s Grace.

So Faith is required, allowing God to work through you is required and you are required to love God.
We cannot get to heaven without loving God, We cannot get to heaven without having Faith in God and we cannot get to heaven without obeying God, all this is possible by God’s Grace.

By God’s Grace through Faith working in Love.
That is the most succint way to explain it as a Catholic and by the words of the Bible in Eph and Gal. Which we as Catholics see reinforced through Jesus’s words, and the rest of the Bible.

In Christ
Scylla

Catholics also believe in free will and never attribute evil to God, if you would like to explain that I would be happy to, either in this thread or PM. God Bless
 
zcharry said:
I agree with all you say, expect I’m confused on the part that it takes work to accept a gift. I’m not saying you are wrong in this, but how do you work for a gift? Isn’t a gift something given to you free from work. If work was involed in the gift would that not make it a compensation.
God Bless
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Accepting is an action, even having faith is an act of will which is an action. Love is an action, allowing God to work through is is an action, Catholics call it as it is.

In Christ
Scylla

We should never attribute anything to ourselves, but for the Grace of God that is where some Protestants misrepresent Catholic belief.
 
Hellisreal said:
Thats what happens when we use a car analogy. Why not start out with the real terminology from the start and then, maybe we can be clear?🙂
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You make a good point. Expect I have found that with this topic if you start to bring the save by works or save alone words people get put on the defensive. They start to defend the point instead of thinking how they feel about it. I did not what to start to debate the point but find out what belief people have.
 
scylla said:
Accepting is an action, even having faith is an act of will which is an action. Love is an action, allowing God to work through is is an action, Catholics call it as it is.

In Christ
Scylla

We should never attribute anything to ourselves, but for the Grace of God that is where some Protestants misrepresent Catholic belief.
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If you view accepting the gift as action, which I do, I agree with your statement.

God Bless
 
zcharry said:
You make a good point. Expect I have found that with this topic if you start to bring the save by works or save alone words people get put on the defensive. They start to defend the point instead of thinking how they feel about it. I did not what to start to debate the point but find out what belief people have.
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You sound like a very kind person and someone willing to dialouge in love.
I respect that.

And your honesty. You impress me!👍
 
You should be Catholic, I would be happy to PM you if you like as there is no reason anyone has to disagree with Catholicism.

The people might sometimes be crummy but Catholicism is perfect, if you disagree please point out a problem and I will be happy to respond either in a thread or by PM.

In Christ
Scylla
 
zcharry said:
God Bless you and your Church
Keep the Faith
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God be with you and yours always, and thank you so much for the kind words.

I am very happy to meet you. May you help me to be a better Catholic.

In Jesus Christ’s name, I pray
 
scylla said:
You should be Catholic, I would be happy to PM you if you like as there is no reason anyone has to disagree with Catholicism.

The people might sometimes be crummy but Catholicism is perfect, if you disagree please point out a problem and I will be happy to respond either in a thread or by PM.

In Christ
Scylla
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We are all closer than we think because we have Christ as our Savior. Thank you for the true concern for my soul. I have a great faith in Christ and I’m very happy in my Church. I do look forward to more dialogue on this forum.
God bless you in your work for Christ
His servant in Christ
 
If you are happy there, then I invite you, to invite everyone in your Church to be Catholic.🙂 That way you don’t have to do it alone.

God Bless and have a good night,
Scylla
 
Using a car is an example is more of an actual grace so first lets look at infant baptism. When a child is Baptized the child recieves initial justification and grace. Lets say the child gets older and comes home and there is the car in the driveway. Now a work is done because the child is “Accepting” the car. Your not just walking past the car into your house to cook yourself a bagel. Your saying yes to this car. God gave you the grace, the Car which represents Jesus and the Kingdom of Heaven, and you accepted Jesus by the grace of God. But it does not end there, it is prefected through love and acts that make us more like Jesus. It’s like working together with God as a team. He gives you the grace and you act upon it because you love him. Also, serious sin can cut us off from Christ so we need reconcilation to bring us back to him, hence we have confession. So salvation starts at Baptism, works throughout a persons life, and is hoped for for entrance into eternal life.

Also, we cannot follow the commandments without grace, as St.Thomas Aquinas has said in Summa Theologica.newadvent.org/summa/2109.htm

Did you read St.Augustine? Also read chapter 10

Something else -
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=248&highlight=faith+works

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=21275&highlight=faith+works
 
zcharry said:
Where do you stand on these two ideas?
When reading these thoughts, keep in mind that the car represents Salvation and the life of the car represents the length of our lives as Christians.
Example A:
You walk out of your home one day and there in your driveway sits a brand new car. A note attached to the car states that it is a gift with no strings attached. The registration is pay for, the title is in your name, and the insurance is paid for the live of the car. Some will work very hard to care for the car and the car will stay in very good condition. Others will just drive the car doing little or no work to maintain the car and it will eventually break down and have to be abandoned. The last group will not believe that someone would give them a car and will not expect it.
Example B
You walk out of your home one day and there in your driveway sits a brand new car. A note on the car states that the car is yours, but for the car to be yours, you will have to pay for the insurance, and pay to register the car. The note states that the title will not be signed over to you until all conditions have been met. It also states that the car must be maintain in a certain way and all maintence must be completed. If all conditions are met to the satisfaction of the giver of the car then the title will be sign over in your name. Some will work very hard to care for the car and others will feel that to do all the things required it really is not a gift at all, and will not accept it. Some will quit after it becomes too hard to continue with the requirements. There will be some that do not believe that someone would give them a car and will not expect it.

Which one represents your view on your salvation A or B?
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This just shows how little our Protestant brethren know about Catholic Theology, as the A is the Protestant belief, where as the B is what Protestants WRONGLY attribute to Catholics.

As many have said here, it is NEITHER, but If I have to choose between the TWO I would say A, but I would add that 1) In order to get the gift you must collaborate with spirit who gave you the gift so that you may accept that gift… otherwise you would never be able to accept the gift… you would be unable to say: “YES, I accept the gift, thank you very much” 2) No one can take that gift away from you, but You yourself can ALWAYS reject the gift you have accepted at any point during your life, thus you must continue to collaborate with the spirit of the gift giver so that you don’t reject that gift… IT is not the you abandon it, as you would abandon a useless piece of junk, but rather you REJECT it even though it is still very nice and shiny. There is more to this, but that in a nutshell.

Many blessings,

E.C.
 
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