What do Catholics and Protestants have in common that makes us family?

[SonCatcher]

Can we just disagree agreeably on the issue of same sex marriage John? I’m sure there are many Catholics who struggle with the entire issue of same sex marriage in our country. Same sex marriage is silent in the Scriptures. When you study the six verses in Scriptures that have been traditionally used to condemn all homosexual relationships, it’s not there. Scripture never condemns a loving commited same sex orientation marriage or relationship. Even in the account of Sodom and Gomorrah, the sin of homosexuality is never mentioned when Scripture later defines the actual sins of Sodom.

It is difficult to lay aside an issue that you continue to advance, yourself. Since you are the original poster, any tangent you take seems appropriate to respond to. If you don’t want to talk about it here, perhaps you should start a new thread. Apologetics → Moral Theology would be the usual place. Apologetics → Sacred Scripture would also be appropriate if you want to focus exclusively on the context of Scripture.

There are indeed many Catholics who struggle with the Church’s teachings on sexuality. The correct response it to patiently catechize them. That is one of the purposes of this board (Catholic Answers).

The reason the issue of same sex marriage does not appear in scripture is simply that the concept did not even exist in the mind of the inspired authors. There was nothing to address. What did exist was marriage (though same-sex relationships were identified elsewhere). Sexual morality also existed. Marriage was defined by our Lord when he instructed the Pharisees concerning its model in our first parents. In later instruction to his disciples, He clarified that some people are incapable of marriage (eunuchs), either from birth or because they were made that way. Someone who is exclusively attracted to the same sex would seem to be incapable of marrying someone of the opposite sex, and, therefore, incapable of marriage at all. Since sexual activity outside the context of marriage (i.e. fornication) is also prohibited, their only moral alternative is celibate, chaste lives. The Church is called to help them live according to their state in life.

Since we are both males John, in a way, we both are in a same sex marriage with Christ since He is our bridegroom, and the church consisting of both male and female is the bride.

The correct pronoun for the Church has always been “She”. The fact that half of her members are male doesn’t change her “femininity” in the context of the Mystery.

 

[Gorgias]

"Christian Unity:

Even Jesus used a polygamy parable in the NT.

I’m not saying that the 10 virgins is about polygamy.

Hmm. Ok, then… which one is Jesus’s “polygamy parable”, then?

 

[SonCatcher]

I’m not saying that the 10 virgins is about polygamy. I’m just saying that polygamy is never condemned in the Scriptures in the OT or NT. I’m also saying if Jesus condemned polygamy, he would never have used the 10 virgins bride and bridegroom parable. We can learn to disagree agreeably without name calling, right?

I haven’t called you any names. Why do you impugn my character?

You are contradicting yourself, here. Is that indeed the parable?

The virgins in the parable were not brides. They were part of the wedding party (similar to bridesmaids today). Weddings never involved the bride waiting at the bridegroom’s house for his return. Rather, the bridegroom would go to his bride’s house to pick her up. Then they would process through the town together until they came to his house. The guests (including the virgins mentioned in this parable) would meet at his house so they could all go in together.

 

[Gorgias]

But you have to admit, as you work through the Scriptures… polygamy is quite common and is really is the biblical norm.

Then again, refusal to love and honor God is the ‘biblical norm’, as is sin in all its manifestations. Are you suggesting that we advocate for them, too?

 

[Christian_Unity]

I think we have drifted way off the thread topic. I will stop the discussion on same sex marriage on this thread because it is a volitate and explosive issue for Catholics and Protestant alike.

 

[JonNC]

If Adam didn’t have multiple wives, the reason probably had to do with the lack of available additional wives that were around for Adam to marry. Do you believe incest was probable with Adam’s children? Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob all married relatives and had multiple wives. Abraham married his half sister Sarah. Polygamy and incestuous marriages are more common in Scripture than what most Christian realize. I’m just sharing my perspective that a defense of a traditional marriage between a man and a woman is not a biblical position. Here is a site defending bible polygamy. Augustine defended polygamy and so did Luther.

biblepolygamy.com/

From Luther:

…although the patriarchs had many wives, Christians may not follow their example, because there is no necessity for doing this, no improvement is obtained thereby, and, especially, there is no word of God to justify this practise, while great offense and trouble may come from it. Accordingly, I do not believe that Christians any longer have this liberty. God would have to publish a command that would declare such a liberty."

Jon

 

[Christian_Unity]

From Luther:

Jon

More about polygamy:

usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnist/2004-10-03-turley_x.htm

 

[JonNC]

More about polygamy:

usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnist/2004-10-03-turley_x.htm

I’ll stand with the Christian Church on this.

Jon

 

[SonCatcher]

I think we have drifted way off the thread topic. I will stop the discussion on same sex marriage on this thread because it is a volitate and explosive issue for Catholics and Protestant alike.

You should probably do likewise with polygamy, then. They both are violations of chastity.

 

[SteveVH]

Same sex marriage is silent in the Scriptures. When you study the six verses in Scriptures that have been traditionally used to condemn all homosexual relationships, it’s not there. Scripture never condemns a loving commited same sex orientation marriage or relationship. Even in the account of Sodom and Gomorrah, the sin of homosexuality is never mentioned when Scripture later defines the actual sins of Sodom.

Pedophilia isn’t condemned specifically either. You think that might be okay? Christ very clearly defined marriage as between a man and a woman. Why are you second guessing him?

QUOTE=Christian Unity;10023629]…we both are in a same sex marriage with Christ since He is our bridegroom, and the church consisting of both male and female is the bride.

Sex has nothing to do with the marriage between Christ and his Church. Please.

 

[Christian_Unity]

Pedophilia isn’t condemned specifically either. You think that might be okay? Christ very clearly defined marriage as between a man and a woman. Why are you second guessing him?

QUOTE=Christian Unity;10023629]…we both are in a same sex marriage with Christ since He is our bridegroom, and the church consisting of both male and female is the bride.

Last comment from me on a biblical marriage: the Bible never defines a marriage between a man and a woman, just read and study your Bible.

 

[SonCatcher]

Last comment from me on a biblical marriage: the Bible never defines a marriage between a man and a woman, just read and study your Bible.

Friend, many posters have demonstrated where the Bible so defines marriage. The fact some people refuse to accept what is plainly said is quite sad.

:banghead:

 

[CMatt25]

It might surprise you that other Chrisitans, churches, and entire denominations support same sex marriage as approved by God.

As a Christian who has taken the time to study and to understand the reasons these Christians give in support of SS marriage or SS unions, it doesn’t surprise me at all. I like your name btw as it answers your question: United in the One most important of all. In Christ as Lord and Savior is what all Christians have in common. In He Who breaks down walls. God bless you and peace.

 

[CMatt25]

Catholic’s and Protestants have a lot more in common than they don’t.They only difference I’ve seen is a Minister is Ordained and leader of his church, Catholic Faith has the Chair of Peter and Apostolic succession,that is the major difference.

Regarding apostolic succession, you might get some argument from Episcopalian Christians who too believe they have apostolic succession. An Episcopal priest told me confirmed Roman Catholics can be received into the Episcopal Church without being confirmed again because they both have apostolic succession.

 

[CMatt25]

It might surprise you that not all Christians believe that a biblical marriage is between a man and a woman. If you went through the bibilcal marriages in the Bible, we may all conclude differently. Biblical marriages include polygamy and incest. Start with the marriages of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob… and continue throughout the Scriptures.

Which is a reason I believe why some Christians don’t subscribe to today’s definition of “traditional marriage” when it depends on the times and how far back one goes in time. There was for instance a time when the Apostle Paul spoke of the tradition of women being silent in churches. I know few if any Catholics or Protestants who adhere to that tradition today. Peace.

 

[JerryZ]

Can we just disagree agreeably on the issue of same sex marriage John? I’m sure there are many Catholics who struggle with the entire issue of same sex marriage in our country. Same sex marriage is silent in the Scriptures. When you study the six verses in Scriptures that have been traditionally used to condemn all homosexual relationships, it’s not there. Scripture never condemns a loving commited same sex orientation marriage or relationship. Even in the account of Sodom and Gomorrah, the sin of homosexuality is never mentioned when Scripture later defines the actual sins of Sodom.

Since we are both males John, in a way, we both are in a same sex marriage with Christ since He is our bridegroom, and the church consisting of both male and female is the bride.

Leviticus 20:13 And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

That verse seems pretty clear to me, 2 men that lie down together as 1 man and 1 woman, geee what could they possibly be doing?

It seems that you are using a very legalistic approach to this issue, that since in the Bible you cannot find the word “homosexual relation” therefore you deduce that the Bible is silent on the subject.

The epitome of “what is the definition of IS is”

I’ll pray that when you do eventually have to face the supreme judge He shows you the same professional courtesy.

 

[CMatt25]

Leviticus 20:13 And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

That verse seems pretty clear to me, 2 men that lie down together as 1 man and 1 woman, geee what could they possibly be doing?

It seems that you are using a very legalistic approach to this issue, that since in the Bible you cannot find the word “homosexual relation” therefore you deduce that the Bible is silent on the subject.

The epitome of “what is the definition of IS is”

I’ll pray that when you do eventually have to face the supreme judge He shows you the same professional courtesy.

Leviticus says many things which many Christians do not adhere to. I know SDA Christians do not eat pork or shellfish though.

 

[CMatt25]

Can we just disagree agreeably on the issue of same sex marriage John? I’m sure there are many Catholics who struggle with the entire issue of same sex marriage in our country. Same sex marriage is silent in the Scriptures. When you study the six verses in Scriptures that have been traditionally used to condemn all homosexual relationships, it’s not there. Scripture never condemns a loving commited same sex orientation marriage or relationship. Even in the account of Sodom and Gomorrah, the sin of homosexuality is never mentioned when Scripture later defines the actual sins of Sodom.

Since we are both males John, in a way, we both are in a same sex marriage with Christ since He is our bridegroom, and the church consisting of both male and female is the bride.

Excellent point on the actual sins of Sodom later defined. Sometimes Christians just have to agree to disagree I believe. In faith we’ll know when the Bridegroom comes again. May He bless you and all Christians who walk by faith with His peace.

 

[SonCatcher]

Leviticus says many things which many Christians do not adhere to. I know SDA Christians do not eat pork or shellfish though.

They don’t eat beef of lamb, either, even though these are permitted.

 

[SonCatcher]

As a Christian who has taken the time to study and to understand the reasons these Christians give in support of SS marriage or SS unions, it doesn’t surprise me at all. I like your name btw as it answers your question: United in the One most important of all. In Christ as Lord and Savior is what all Christians have in common. In He Who breaks down walls. God bless you and peace.

I understand what they are saying. Unfortunately, their reasoning exhibits a profound lack of understanding of Scripture and the God who inspired it on their part.