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JustinMartyr100
Guest
I had a protestant ask me this, I wasn’t exactly sure what to say.
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thomasf
Guest
What many protestants believe in regards to the rapture is based on the interpretations of John Darby in the early 1800s. That there will be a sudden disappearance of christians, or chosen people, throughout the world. Followed by a tribulation for several years, at the end of which time Jesus will return, etc. This is a completely made up, self-interpretation of Revelation by Darby. It was picked up by Scofield and used in his Scofield bible in the early 1900s.
I tend to not believe this, as like I said, it was a self interpretation by Darby and no where does the word rapture appear in Revelation. What I believe, and I think what the church teaches, is that when Jesus returns the living and dead shall rise to meet him for final judgement.
I always tell protestants when they ask me what I believe is that the rapture is a totally made up concept and no, I don’t believe that. It really burns them up. Usually they use the rapture and Revelation as a great way to scare those ignorant of what the book says, and the fact that the rapture was not a biblical term.
I tend to not believe this, as like I said, it was a self interpretation by Darby and no where does the word rapture appear in Revelation. What I believe, and I think what the church teaches, is that when Jesus returns the living and dead shall rise to meet him for final judgement.
I always tell protestants when they ask me what I believe is that the rapture is a totally made up concept and no, I don’t believe that. It really burns them up. Usually they use the rapture and Revelation as a great way to scare those ignorant of what the book says, and the fact that the rapture was not a biblical term.
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Little_Mary
Guest
That there will be only one second coming, not two or more. IOW, we don’t believe in that rapture where some will be taken to heaven and others will be gasp left behind!!!
This is a case where some protestants have taken verses of the bible out of context to make it say what they want it to say. Visit Tim LaHay’s website. As he makes a case for this theory, you will notice that his explaination is full of “it just seems like” and “it must be true that” … iow, he is giving you his own opinion based on out of context passages, nothing more.
What is sad is that so many people buy this and stake their faith on it.
Any bible reference that a protestant gives you to support this rapture theory is out of context. Get chapter and verse and go read it for yourself, but don’t just read the quoted part, read before and after it as well so you get it in context.
Furthermore, in the bible, if you consider the story of Noah, who was left behind? The good guys!!!
There are a couple of other references in the bible where the good guys are the ones left behind but I don’t recall specifics. Can someone else chime in here?
Point is, if you are going to use the bible as your reference, you would want to be left behind!!!
I think the word rapture means to be “caught up” as in where the bible says that people will be “caught up” in the clouds to meet Jesus. But this is in reference to the end of the world, not a pit stop to scoop up some worthy souls, do a 180, and return to heaven. (referencing John Martignoni here).
There are also a lot of different opinions between rapture believers. Some believe the rapture will happen before the chastisement, some believe it will happen during and some believe it will happen after. Whatever.
Check this out:
www.biblechristiansociety.com
Once there, download “The Rapture and The Bible” It will give you a great deal of information - all bible based.
This is a case where some protestants have taken verses of the bible out of context to make it say what they want it to say. Visit Tim LaHay’s website. As he makes a case for this theory, you will notice that his explaination is full of “it just seems like” and “it must be true that” … iow, he is giving you his own opinion based on out of context passages, nothing more.
What is sad is that so many people buy this and stake their faith on it.
Any bible reference that a protestant gives you to support this rapture theory is out of context. Get chapter and verse and go read it for yourself, but don’t just read the quoted part, read before and after it as well so you get it in context.
Furthermore, in the bible, if you consider the story of Noah, who was left behind? The good guys!!!
There are a couple of other references in the bible where the good guys are the ones left behind but I don’t recall specifics. Can someone else chime in here?
Point is, if you are going to use the bible as your reference, you would want to be left behind!!!
I think the word rapture means to be “caught up” as in where the bible says that people will be “caught up” in the clouds to meet Jesus. But this is in reference to the end of the world, not a pit stop to scoop up some worthy souls, do a 180, and return to heaven. (referencing John Martignoni here).
There are also a lot of different opinions between rapture believers. Some believe the rapture will happen before the chastisement, some believe it will happen during and some believe it will happen after. Whatever.
Check this out:
www.biblechristiansociety.com
Once there, download “The Rapture and The Bible” It will give you a great deal of information - all bible based.
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Kitty_Chan
Guest
Not all protestants believe in that particular version, although a Catholic bookstore here did sell the Left Behind Series.
Theres what, pre, mid, and post tribulation theorys. I can see reasons for the rapture even though the word isnt in the Bible, but then again neither is the Trinity. But I can see reasons, people say wont I be mad at God if He doesnt come. I give them a forth theory, Whatever God decides is good with me. Because He did say no one knows the time. He has His reasons, Ive given up arguing.
So what is the Catholic stand on this? probably post if I get the drift so far.?
Theres what, pre, mid, and post tribulation theorys. I can see reasons for the rapture even though the word isnt in the Bible, but then again neither is the Trinity. But I can see reasons, people say wont I be mad at God if He doesnt come. I give them a forth theory, Whatever God decides is good with me. Because He did say no one knows the time. He has His reasons, Ive given up arguing.
So what is the Catholic stand on this? probably post if I get the drift so far.?
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Lillith
Guest
There is a rapture of sorts…when Jesus returns some will raise up to meet him and then descend to Earth with him…let the judgement begin…
Kinda like an escort that the president might have. The president lands in an airport that is usually outside the city…there is always a calvacade to escort him into the city…the governor, mayor of the city…police officers and such…but nowhere in the Bible does it mention that Jesus will do a 180 and return with everyone back to heaven…it always describes the raising of the dead and judgement as the very next event.
Kinda like an escort that the president might have. The president lands in an airport that is usually outside the city…there is always a calvacade to escort him into the city…the governor, mayor of the city…police officers and such…but nowhere in the Bible does it mention that Jesus will do a 180 and return with everyone back to heaven…it always describes the raising of the dead and judgement as the very next event.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
The Catholic belief regarding the “Rapture” is not the same as those believe theorize by John Darby that all Christians will be disappear and escape tribulation.
Catholic believe that Jesus will come again only once. He will raise both the living and the dead. He will come in glory, and will be Just Judge. On the Last Day, the righteous will be judge according to their deeds, as well as the evil doers, who reject Jesus. This is stated in Matthew 25:31-46.
The righteous will be inherit the kingdom of heaven. The damned will be cast into the everlasting fire of hell for all eternity. There will be a new heaven and new earth, the Church will come like Bride of the Lamb, who awaited for coming of Jesus.
There will be no more war, there will be peace. Jesus will rule both the heaven and earth as just King, and we will see the beatific vision that we earn through God’s grace. We will be worshipping God forever.
I also like to add that Christians will be escape the great tribulation. They will persecuted and killed for their faith just as the Christians did in the first Century. Christians who are remain truth in Christ will die for their Savior. The Great Tribulation will be greater than any persecution…
This is a summary of what we believe. I know I may have left out the details of the End of Days but I like to point out the main points, the righteous will inherit the kingdom forever, the damn will be cast in hell forever, Jesus will rule His Kingdom forever. There will be a new heaven and earth, peace everlasting.
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canne
Guest
The Catholic answers home page has a great tract on the rapture…heres the link. catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp
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Semper_Fi_1
Guest
The rapture is an invention of one John Darby who was an Irish Protestant Evangelical to scare Irish Papists to convert to the Church of Ireland. After squablings with the Church of Ireland he founded his own church called the Brethren. Darby is often referred to as the father of dispensationalism which is the brand of Fundamentalist Christianity a large minority of Americans believe in today…
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tabcom
Guest
**Paul says that those who obey the gospel will all be gathered and caught up to meet the Lord in the air (I Thess. 4:17; II Thess. 2:1) and saved from the fiery destruction of the wrath of God (Rev. 19:12).
There will be a brightness (visible presence), as the lightning shineth from east to west, at his coming (parousia). This coming (parousia) will be with a shout (war-cry) (I Thess 4:15,16) when Jesus declares war on his enemies (Rev. 14:14-20,19:11-20). Every time this word coming is used in scripture, it speaks of a visible physical presence (Matt. 24:3,27,37,39; 1 Cor. 15:23; 1 Thess. 2:19; 3:13; 4:15; 5:23; 1 Thess. 2:1,8).
John speaks of 7 trumpets of judgement in Rev. 8-10. John says that the “mystery of God” will be finished at the sounding of the 7th trumpet (Rev. 10-7,15). The last (eschatos) trumpet (after which no other will sound) will be this last trumpet of judgement and victory, as with Joshua’s 7th trumpet and shout (Josh. 6:16-20).
This “mystery of God” in Rev. 10 is defined by Paul: “that the gentiles should be fellow heirs” (The N.T. church - Eph. 3:1-6) with the Jews (The O.T. church - Acts 7:38). The Jew and Gentile will become one body (Col. 3:15; Eph. 3:6) which is the church (Col. 1:18,24). Old Testament Israel is betrothed to Christ (Hosea 2:19,20). (Jewish betrothal was irreversible). The New Testament Church is also betrothed to Christ (Eph. 5:23,24,32). “Wife” is the betrothed title of the Jewish bride (our word fiancee). The wife was not called the bride until the night she was taken away to the house of the bridegroom’s father (John 14:1-3).
The church is still the “wife” in Rev. 19:7 having made herself ready for the coming of the bridegroom that she may be his bride. These are the keys to the time element of the rapture. The brightness of his coming (Parousia) the last (eschatos) trumpet (after the tribulation of those days), when the mystery of God (church) is finished, and the betrothal to Israel and the New Testament church (spiritual Israel - Rom. 2:28,29; 9:6; 11:7; Gal. 6:16).
Church, prepare, we will surely see tribulation!!!**
There will be a brightness (visible presence), as the lightning shineth from east to west, at his coming (parousia). This coming (parousia) will be with a shout (war-cry) (I Thess 4:15,16) when Jesus declares war on his enemies (Rev. 14:14-20,19:11-20). Every time this word coming is used in scripture, it speaks of a visible physical presence (Matt. 24:3,27,37,39; 1 Cor. 15:23; 1 Thess. 2:19; 3:13; 4:15; 5:23; 1 Thess. 2:1,8).
John speaks of 7 trumpets of judgement in Rev. 8-10. John says that the “mystery of God” will be finished at the sounding of the 7th trumpet (Rev. 10-7,15). The last (eschatos) trumpet (after which no other will sound) will be this last trumpet of judgement and victory, as with Joshua’s 7th trumpet and shout (Josh. 6:16-20).
This “mystery of God” in Rev. 10 is defined by Paul: “that the gentiles should be fellow heirs” (The N.T. church - Eph. 3:1-6) with the Jews (The O.T. church - Acts 7:38). The Jew and Gentile will become one body (Col. 3:15; Eph. 3:6) which is the church (Col. 1:18,24). Old Testament Israel is betrothed to Christ (Hosea 2:19,20). (Jewish betrothal was irreversible). The New Testament Church is also betrothed to Christ (Eph. 5:23,24,32). “Wife” is the betrothed title of the Jewish bride (our word fiancee). The wife was not called the bride until the night she was taken away to the house of the bridegroom’s father (John 14:1-3).
The church is still the “wife” in Rev. 19:7 having made herself ready for the coming of the bridegroom that she may be his bride. These are the keys to the time element of the rapture. The brightness of his coming (Parousia) the last (eschatos) trumpet (after the tribulation of those days), when the mystery of God (church) is finished, and the betrothal to Israel and the New Testament church (spiritual Israel - Rom. 2:28,29; 9:6; 11:7; Gal. 6:16).
Church, prepare, we will surely see tribulation!!!**
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Correction: The Christians will not escape the Great Tribulation.
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apophasis
Guest
Now that’s an oxymoron if there ever was one.
Sorry Manny, but just couldn’t let this statement go unchecked.
Back to the regular scheduled program.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
No it isn’t. When I say beatific vision I mean when we are die in God’s grace.Now that’s an oxymoron if there ever was one.
Sorry Manny, but just couldn’t let this statement go unchecked.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Beautific Vision means the following:
The immediate knowledge of God which the angelic spirits and the souls of the just enjoy in Heaven. It is called “vision” to distinguish it from the mediate knowledge of God which the human mind may attain in the present life. And since in beholding God face to face the created intelligence finds perfect happiness, the vision is termed “beatific”. For further explanation of the subject, see HEAVEN.
newadvent.org/cathen/02364a.htm
So on the last day, we will gain the immediate knowledge of God which the angels and the souls in heaven enjoy in heaven.
The immediate knowledge of God which the angelic spirits and the souls of the just enjoy in Heaven. It is called “vision” to distinguish it from the mediate knowledge of God which the human mind may attain in the present life. And since in beholding God face to face the created intelligence finds perfect happiness, the vision is termed “beatific”. For further explanation of the subject, see HEAVEN.
newadvent.org/cathen/02364a.htm
So on the last day, we will gain the immediate knowledge of God which the angels and the souls in heaven enjoy in heaven.
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