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estesbob
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Catholcism went stale??? Just what exactly does that mean
So the soultion to “stalenss” is to reject 1,500 years of consistent Doctines and teachings and run off in 33,000 different directions? I think not.
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So the soultion to “stalenss” is to reject 1,500 years of consistent Doctines and teachings and run off in 33,000 different directions? I think not.
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Gottle_of_Geer
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It depends what is meant by “outside”. The teaching of the Council is not identical with that of Pius XII in Mystici Corporis; it is a development of it. Just as the teaching of Pius XII was a development of the teaching of Pius IX, rather than a mere repretition of it. Repetition is not the same as fidelity to Tradition - it can be an obstacle to fidelity.
This site about one of the Council Fathers most influential in the shaping of Vatican II’s ecclesiology will explain the thinking behind the passages in Lumen Gentium quoted above by the CCC:Apart from any other considerations, the site goes a good way to explaining why the Council was held.
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Gottle_of_Geer
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Some Catholics are unwilling to grant that last point because it seems to amount to saying that Protestantism has been of significance towards salvation; but why that should be an objection to the Catholic dogma, I don’t know; I think it is because the uniqueness of the Church (which is one of its traditional “marks”) is understood as excluding the possibility that grace can be given outside the visible boundaries of the CC; so that if that is so, salvation requires becoming a member of the CC while in this life. That view is far stricter than the teaching of the CC as it now is.
The Church is in constant need of renewal - otherwise, it loses its freshness, & ossifies 
This is true in the natural world; so why it should not be true in matters of God’s dealings with His people, who are congenitally wayward by nature, 
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OneTrueCathApos
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Your right. Luther did not know all the answers. He ASSUMED them. His heretical actions against the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic church that Christ established was a down right sin against Jesus Christ. Protestants do not have this “superior Scriptural” understanding, otherwise they wouldn’t “interpret” the Scriptures in the way that they did.
The Catholic church grows in millions every day, all over the world. There are millions of converts from Protestant to Catholicism today more than ever. Protestants wouldn’t even know one line of Scripture anyway if it weren’t for the Catholic church that gave her the bible. Remember that.
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estesbob
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And one of the first things Benedict XVI did after becoming the Vicar of Christ was to clarify that Lumen Gentium(which was being twsited by many Catholic Scholars like Protestants twist scripture) affirmed the teachings of the Church that there was NO slavation outside the Catholic Church. It caused quite a stir at the time among the secular press . Protestants and poorly Cathecized catholics:
associatedcontent.com/article/317573/wrong_turn_pope_benedict_xvi_detours.html?cat=9
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OneTrueCathApos
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Good for the Pope. It is true.
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BRB1
Guest
Nicely done Ludovicus …
Some of those Catholic here that are rabidly promoting error … saying Protestants can’t be saved … need to read what Pius IX and X have said on the subject.
Ludovicus … the Wise, Insightful, & Merciful One
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BRB1
Guest
Yes, the CCC does allow for Protestants, etc to see the kingdom. Ludovicus, @ his Blog provides us with the testimony of St. Irenaeus [GodFather of Catholic Doctrines] …lets get back to what the Church Teaches . There is NO salvation outside the Catholic Church:
**“Outside the Church there is no salvation” **
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
[848](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/848.htm’)
"Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred
St. Irenaeus says that all will be saved WHO HAVE FEARED AND LOVED GOD, PRACTICED JUSTICE AND PIETY TOWARDS THEIR NEIGHBORS, AND HAVE EARNESTLY DESIRED TO SEE CHRIST, AND TO HEAR HIS VOICE.
In other words … those who follow the Law of Love / Beatitudes of Christ … will be rewarded with Kingdom life. This applies to both OT & NT epochs & peoples.
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estesbob
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Again you are confusing being a member of the Church with being saved through the Church. One does not have to be a member of the Catholic Church to be saved-BUT all salvation is through the Catholic Church. The Church has taught this for 2,000 years.
You should also note that what Iraneus says AFFIRMS the Doctrine of No slavation Outside the Church. Iraneus lived 1,400 years before there were any Protestants. If one followed Christ in his time they were Catholic-there was no other Christian option. Also note what he expouses condemns anyone who does not believe in Christ. The Church does not teach this(alhthough many evangleicals do).
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BRB1
Guest
So, you concede that there are many branches [Protestant] that owe there existance to the Universal Church of Christ
That God has pruned out some of the dormant Catholic ones, and grafted in inspired Protestant ones ?
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estesbob
Guest
I have no idea what you are talking about??? I gave you the relevant section of the cathecism on this. As far as what “Catholics Believe” properly Cathecized Catholics accept the Church’s consistent teaching for the last 2,000 years that there is Salvation outside of the Catholic Church.So, you concede that there are many branches [Protestant] that owe there existance to the Universal Church of Christ
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