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Soldier_X
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Doesn’t it?
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Anna_Scott
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Publisher
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I understand and accept that you do friend.
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AmateurPianist
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I don’t think that Luther actually was involved with killing other Christians for Christ, although I am open to be proven wrong. I do seem to recall from his writings that he was not opposed to the practice although again I may be wrong.
I do know that Calvin and Zwingli for starters were into killing Christians for Christ.
I for one am not into making excuses for the practice no matter who is doing the killing.
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KathleenGee
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I have a high opinion of the Mennonites who quietly…the Amish…I think their lifestyle is the solution to ours in this time of economic uncertainty.
The Baptists who recognize my Christianity, are on the same page…yes means yes, no means no…to make it simple.
The Quakers hold my esteem.
The Baptists who recognize my Christianity, are on the same page…yes means yes, no means no…to make it simple.
The Quakers hold my esteem.
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AmateurPianist
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From my reading I do seem to recall having read about “reconciliation and repentance services” (probably not the right words) between the Mennonites and both Catholics and some Protestant groups.
Which is appropriate since both persecuted the anabaptists. The difference between the two being that the Catholics preferred frying them while the Protestants went for drowning. At least that is what I recall reading.
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brb3
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That my Quaker ‘friend’ is what lawyers/judges call a ‘non-responsive’ answer
When you come before Christ at the Great White Judgment … ‘non-responsive’ answers won’t bear you any pardon.
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Anna_Scott
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AP,
Do an internet search for Luther’s “On the Jews and Their Lies.” It is so offensive, and difficult to believe one held in esteem as a “Reformer” could write such terrible things. Hitler actually quoted Luther in “Mein Kampf” to help justify his actions against the Jews. Of course, that was after Luther’s death; and I’m certain Hitler would have committed his atrocities regardless of whether or not he had Luther’s work. It’s just that Luther’s writing was so ripe for Hitler’s purposes.
Anyway, there are some terrible things in Christian history. So, I admire the non-violent history of the Anabaptists.
Anna
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brb3
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Yes, M. Luther was deeply involved in promoting class warfare to further his errancy. 60,000 plus serfs, etc died as consequence of his actions. Later when confronted by others over the great loss of human life, he justified it as necessary.
Those who live by the sword, die by it … if they neglect to confess and be transformed as did King David. Nevertheless, he was not allowed to build the Temple, his infant child died, and Absalom desired to kill his father - but instead was killed himself.
Luther died a broken man, confused and hopefully regretting/repenting of his actions against the Mother Church.
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KathleenGee
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During the Reformation, many Catholics were forced to leave the Church and be part of the political religious revolt. Obviously there were tremendous reactions to the corrupt clergy. We are always being told to pray and fast for them, because when the clergy goes astray, they cause such scandal to Christ’s church.
We also have to remember Christ has forgiven all who truly seek repentance, including the clergy. So Protestants themselves need to forgive what happened in the past.
There is a saying I heard recently, ‘history is in the past, tomorrow is mystery, and today is called a gift as it is in the present.’
We also have to remember Christ has forgiven all who truly seek repentance, including the clergy. So Protestants themselves need to forgive what happened in the past.
There is a saying I heard recently, ‘history is in the past, tomorrow is mystery, and today is called a gift as it is in the present.’
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AmateurPianist
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That is not the question I am asking.
My question is whether there is any evidence Luther was directly involved in executing Christians for the crime of heresy? A similar case would be John Calvin and Michael Servetus. Or Zwingli and any number of anabaptists mentioned in Martyr’s Mirror.
I know of no such instances, but if you could provide a link with names I would be more well informed.
The “Peasant’s War” and other revolts of that time period are not what I am asking.
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Anna_Scott
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Kathleen,
You are right about forgiveness; and I appreciate the saying you quoted.
Anna
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benidict
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hi anna! yes it does. however, a person must be willing to give up alot of things. also they must learn to be subject to the order of the district they are living in. some allow rubber tires on the buggy some dont. some allow white gas to be used, some only kerosene. its interesting they nowadays they can have cell phones, seeing how it is not connected to a land line. before they had one phone for the community to use, and it was in a phone booth away from the house. they have their share of problems, same as the rest of us. but all and all, it is a better life. i think this is why some Catholics, myself included look into the monastery life. and the more i look at it, the better it looks.
Peace and Grace to you 
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Anna_Scott
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Benidict,hi anna! yes it does. however, a person must be willing to give up alot of things. also they must learn to be subject to the order of the district they are living in. some allow rubber tires on the buggy some dont. some allow white gas to be used, some only kerosene. its interesting they nowadays they can have cell phones, seeing how it is not connected to a land line. before they had one phone for the community to use, and it was in a phone booth away from the house. they have their share of problems, same as the rest of us. but all and all, it is a better life. i think this is why some Catholics, myself included look into the monastery life. and the more i look at it, the better it looks.
I appreciate the information. I think most of us realize, those who live this “simpler” life will probably come out on top, in the event of some catastrophic event that takes out power grids across our country. Kinda reminds me of the years I spent growing up on my Grandparent’s farm. Our drinking water came from a well dug to natural spring water. We pumped it with an old fashion hand pump. The water came out of the ground so cold. We had coal heat in the winter. If we lost power, it was no problem. We still had heat and karocene lamps for light. My grandmother could still cook things on the coal stove. She canned so much food from the summer gardens. We had a corn crib full of corn for the livestock, and of course hay put up for the winter. Even had a smoke house. And of course, we had chickens and a milk cow. My best childhood memories come from my life on the farm. Rambling off topic. oops.
Anna
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schaick
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What I have read Luther was horrified by the deaths of any killed in his name. Luther was not a backer of the Peasant’s War.
Luther lead a good life, he wrote amazing hymns, married had 6 only 4 lived.
YES, Luther said horrible things about the Jewish people. He seemed to be very good at using very, very strong language.
It appears to me that Luther broke the dam and everyone that had been harmed by the Catholic Church saw it as a time to revolt.
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schaick
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They are awesome-excellant Christian role models. Peaceful, kind and loving.
I wouldn’t mind being Mennonite.
Amish? could I go to the Library to use the computer?
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benidict
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i do know that when the amish need to take an extended trip, they can hire someone to drive them. they can also take busses and planes. i would think it would be up to the district where you lived if you could do this. also if you are a woman, your freedom to dress as you please would be seriously curtailed. no makeup. cannot cut your hair. must where a prayer veil 24/7 dresses must be plain, and you get a sturdy pair of shoes. hutturites, and mennonites allow prints. so depends.
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KathleenGee
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A little details on the women of these different sects…they remind me of monastic nuns.
No really.
I considered monastic life. There are nuns living out on farms and maintaining them, caring for the animals and gardening, praying. I had a friend who eventually left this men’s monastery.
He was like a jolly friar tuck…may be he was too jolly. They make candy. He was the fellow who came to the door and gave tours and handed out this delicious candy. Then we were allowed to go to their chapel. The monks would come in 7 times a day to pray and then go back to work.
‘Friar Tuck’ knew the priests I worked with. He sent me some ‘plays’ he wrote about them and was wanting me to get people to put on skits about them. They were hysterical…
Also the monastics do have their recreation time. And come to think of it, St. Therese the Little Flower was also a good mimic of her sisters and would do pantomines of them at recreation, the sisters having alot of fun.
But yes, think the Amish and the Mennonites live a life I wish we had. As we can see, the current wars have born little fruit and much destruction.
No really.
I considered monastic life. There are nuns living out on farms and maintaining them, caring for the animals and gardening, praying. I had a friend who eventually left this men’s monastery.
He was like a jolly friar tuck…may be he was too jolly. They make candy. He was the fellow who came to the door and gave tours and handed out this delicious candy. Then we were allowed to go to their chapel. The monks would come in 7 times a day to pray and then go back to work.
‘Friar Tuck’ knew the priests I worked with. He sent me some ‘plays’ he wrote about them and was wanting me to get people to put on skits about them. They were hysterical…
Also the monastics do have their recreation time. And come to think of it, St. Therese the Little Flower was also a good mimic of her sisters and would do pantomines of them at recreation, the sisters having alot of fun.
But yes, think the Amish and the Mennonites live a life I wish we had. As we can see, the current wars have born little fruit and much destruction.
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benidict
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that is neat! but my dear friend. if we did not fight the current war, our mennonite and amish friends could not practice their religion. i would hate to see what would happen if the enemy won. also we have, as a military done much good over here. there are wonderful people the world over. if guaraunteeing these wonderful monastics, mennonites and amish peoples right to practice means war, then to me its worth it so they can live their peaceful lives. its done for them, as much as for anyone else. and believe it or not. if you were here, you would be pleasantly surprised at the fruit that has been born here. Peace and Grace to you and yours
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ozarkernie
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Luther wrote various comments that show he supported the killing of Anabaptists.
Here is one excerpt. You can read more here. theanabaptistschurch.com/
Myconius wrote Melanchthon and Luther for their opinions about executing these peaceful Anabaptists. To Myconius’ inquiry, Luther himself wrote “I am very pleased with the outline of your projected work against the Anabaptists, which I hope will be published as soon as possible. As they are not only blasphemous, but highly seditious, urge the use of the sword against them by right of law. For it is in accordance with the will of God that he should incur punishment, who resists the civil power as the minister of God. (Romans xiii, 1-3). We may not, therefore, mete out better treatment to these men than God Himself and all the saints.”
Melanchthon set forth the grounds for a regular system of coercion by the sword. Martin Luther set his name and signature to the bottom of this document, with the words, “I, Luther, Approve” [placet mihi Luthero].
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