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ConstantineTG
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We should demand autocephally from Washington DC!!!
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wynd
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Canada: Americaâs klobukWe should demand autocephally from Washington DC!!!
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babochka
Guest
Last I checked, Canada is one of the countries on the continent of North America, or part of the Americas.No, I belong to the OCC. Orthodox Church in Canada
Or OCNA, Orthodox Church in North America.
I think my longer version is, Orthodox Church outside of America in Canada
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owensjo
Guest
You become a Catholic when youâre baptized into the Catholic Church. And once a Catholic, always a Catholic. If you doubt any part of Catholic theology, including Papal authority, youâre just a bad Catholic.LOL - I know what you mean! Perhaps I should have said thatâs how itâs supposed to work!
Still, whether the dissenters like it or not, to be a Catholic really does mean that you accept the Church as headed by the Pope as the final authority; and thatâs just not the same in Orthodoxy.
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Nine_Two
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We are part of the Americas, but like most U.S. based institutions, the two continents are not what the OCA has in mind when it calls itself âof Americaâ.
There was at one point a plan to have the Archdiocese (it may have been a diocese at the time) of Canada join the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada, but it fell through for a number of reasons I wonât get into here.
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neokarny
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I wonder if it would be better for there to be an OCC, OCA, and OCM - or one OCA encompassing Canada, USA, and Mexico. Ultimately speculation assuming the name of the future unified Orthodox church(es) here in NA.
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Nine_Two
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Generally though, the reason for having the National Churches is so that national issues can be properly addressed. Mexico has a vastly different culture, so - not taking size into account - it probably has the best case for going off on its own.
For Canada, perhaps it is just a matter of pride. We are culturally very similar to the United States. But we donât always have the same interests. Perhaps one day, when Canada has a significant Orthodox population, it will be time to go our own way.
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ConstantineTG
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Canadians are nice, but try coming here and telling people here that this is America. Letâs see how nice Canadians really are
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ConstantineTG
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No weâre not. Or maybe there are certain parts of Canada that are similar with certain parts of the US. If you think about it, the US itself is pretty diverse. You donât expect a Texan to be similar to a New Yorker or one from the West Coast.
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Nine_Two
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Depends. There are what we can call regional cultural areas, which seldom stop at the border. BC has a lot in common with Washington, Southern Alberta with Montana, Ontario with New York, et al.
But there is also an over-riding culture. The U.S. has the gun culture to begin with - enshrined in their constitution, and tends to like less hands on Government. Even the more liberal areas want nothing compared to what Canada has.
Thanks to globalization, a common language, and a similar historical position on the frontier, weâre probably closer to them than most bordering countries.
We should invade.
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Aramis
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Hey, my next door neighbor was deported back to Canukistan a couple years ago⌠We keep repelling your invasions!We should invade.
In all seriousness, the US as a whole is much more intolerant than Canada. On a variety of scores. And, as you note, we have this gun culture.
Back to topic:
I live in a state where the OCA is almost as strong as the Catholic Church. About 20% of Alaska is Russian Orthodox, and almost all of them OCA (some are non-OCA Old Believers).
I have no problem with the OCA in general, however⌠Having met Bishop Nikolai on several occasions, having heard him preach, and having seen how the issues with his removal were handled, I suspect strongly that the issue is that he was insufficiently anti-Catholic, rather than the officially given reasons.
Thereâs a real and visible-to-the-outsider divide in the Diocese of Alaska - Many of the priests consider Catholics to be orthodox enough. Many others consider Catholics abject heretics, and do not hesitate to tell us to our faces. (Fr. Oleska amongst them.) Bishop Nikolai himself spoke openly of a desire for unification of the Catholic and Orthodox churches.
There is still a sense of mistrust of the OCA synod amongst my OCA friends⌠some because of how Bishop Nikolai was removed, and others because of the divide amongst the clergy that it represented.
Still, many of the rural OCA parishes up here are less vostochnik than the one EC parish in the state⌠Orthodox clergy who see our liturgies are often surprised at how vostochnik we are. OCA Faithful often donât process that we are not Russian Orthodox. Happens several times per year.
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Sybok
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People sometimes talk about how Eastern Catholic Churches have counter-parts in Eastern Orthodoxy - the OCA is really the counterpart to the BCC like how the Gk. Orthodox Church of Antioch is the counterpart to the Melkites.
Iâm a huge fan of Fr Schmemann so I have a positive view towards them âtheoreticallyâ for lack of better word, I think theyâre a good attempt to bring about native Eastern Christianity to America, but am disappointed with their recent history, especially with the resignation of Met. Jonah.
Perhaps I would be a little bitter if I lived 100 years ago, but the OCA today is rather different than back then, a good chunk (not necessarily the majority) of OCA members are not even Slavs but converts⌠look at the OCA episcopacy and most of them , including the current metropolitan and the previous one, are former Anglicans.
No, unfortunately I donât think corporate reunion is possible due to different theology mostly regarding role of bishop of Rome. However, itâs intellectual and not out of bad blood since there is no living memory of the schism unless, maybe if one was born in the in the early half 20th century and heard their grandparents talk about it - but some people both clergy and laity have a bad opinion of Eastern Catholicism and Catholicism in general and youâll find the opposite with certain people in Catholicism.
Other groups, like the ACROD there still may be some âbad bloodâ since itâs relatively more recent and still in living memory.
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ConstantineTG
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We are nothing like Washington. For one thing, pot is legal in Washington but you still canât smoke. But in BC it is illegal but you can
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ConstantineTG
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The BCCâs Orthodox counterpart is ACROD, not the OCA.
The OCA is really a conglomeration of different jurisdictions who has already bought into the idea of a unified American Orthodox jurisdiction. It started with the Russians, then the Ruthenians, then more Russians (Fr. Alexander, et al) and then finally today there are different jurisdictions who have decided to be under the OCA, including some Russians, some Romanians, etc.
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Nine_Two
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Met. Jonah was a Lutheran I believe. But I didnât realize Met. Tikhon was an Anglican. I find that quite interesting.
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ConstantineTG
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Yes. Isnât his mom an Episcopalian âpriestâ?
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Nine_Two
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I learned less than 20 minutes ago, give me a chance to get the details.
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Sybok
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I disagree - there was no ACROD until the 1930s and the BCC in America existed as you know before then, the OCA in the lower 48 states got itâs numbers from ex-Catholic âRutheniansâ and Slovaks
The BCC in America is likewise a conglomeration of different jurisdictions, Ruthenian, Slovak, Hungarian, and Croatian
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Sybok
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Jonah was Anglican oca.org/holy-synod/bishops/metropolitan-jonah , he converted age 18 I think when they approved womenâs ordination - I think youâre confusing him with whats his name the former bishop in California, Bp. Fitzgerald I think (cant remeber his first name) who was former Lutheran
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ConstantineTG
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It got its numbers from ex-Ruthenians, but it doesnât mean that the Church originated from the Ruthenian Church. It originated from the Russians. From the initial Russian mission, and then again with the coming of those displaced by Communism.
The Ruthenian Church didnât schism and formed the OCA.
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