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adf417
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:bigyikes::bigyikes:
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Lenten_ashes
Guest
I know this is more of a rhetorical question but I’ll take a stab at it.
If one truly believes that in Matthew 16 that Jesus made for himself a vicarious shepherd(see the Jesus/Peter discourse at the end of John’s gospel) and believes the promise Jesus gave to him through this Petrine ministry, then everything falls into place.
Because you believe that the Lord will not let his Church fail and that whatever she binds on earth will be bound in heaven. So you could read the CCC and have zero objections because of the trust you have in the Lord.
Pax
If one truly believes that in Matthew 16 that Jesus made for himself a vicarious shepherd(see the Jesus/Peter discourse at the end of John’s gospel) and believes the promise Jesus gave to him through this Petrine ministry, then everything falls into place.
Because you believe that the Lord will not let his Church fail and that whatever she binds on earth will be bound in heaven. So you could read the CCC and have zero objections because of the trust you have in the Lord.
Pax
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Lenten_ashes
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With all due respect, if Islam is true then allah did a whole lot of misguiding with that magic trick he supposedly pulled with the Jesus imposter on the cross.
Is it fair to say the god of Islam is a deceiver of sorts?
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MichaelP3
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According to this, I am very much Catholic (But I doubt I can participate in communion). Anything more?
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Lenten_ashes
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All Protestants are Catholic lite to varying degrees.
Yes, you can have Communion, eventually. Let’s get you signed up for RCIA and tell you all about it.
If you still have questions call Catholic Answers. Trent Horn has some questions for you
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SalamKhan
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12. His sarcasm (sukhriyya), mockery (istihzâ’), scheming (makr), and deceit (khid`) = All of these are metaphors of similitude or metonymies naming the result by the name of its cause, His sarcasm being caused by theirs, His mockery by theirs, His scheming by theirs, and His deceit by theirs.
Source- livingislam.org/k/asht_e.html
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reggieM
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There are probably a dozen or so key beliefs that separate mainstream Reformed Christianity from Catholicism. The post you responded to did not touch on any of them. But we could explain them here, if you’d like.
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Tantum_ergo
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The most vile sinner on earth can walk into a Catholic Church and attend Mass but unless he or she, if in a state of mortal sin, has gone to reconciliation/repentance and is changing to become like Christ–even if he or she is constantly falling, failing, going back to be forgiven again and again. . .then that person may not just receive the sacraments or think, "all is well, I’m Catholic and therefore good to go’ when that person is actively sinning mortally.
So yes, come to the Church, sinner that you are. . .but don’t stay a sinner. Getting in a state of grace doesn’t mean you aren’t going to just stay free of sin, unless you really try, and get help when you fail. Assuming that God ‘loves you as you are’ doesn’t mean, “Therefore I don’t have to change myself from my evil ways”.
Apropos of the ‘line in the Mass’, in the penitential rite at the beginning of Mass, one’s venial sins are forgiven them. Therefore a person who only has venial sin to repent of is, indeed, still not worthy of Christ --nobody on the face of the earth is ‘worthy’ --at our best, we are useless servants, we have done only what is expected of us–and at our worst, we all have some pretty bad sins we’ve done; maybe we’ve repented and been forgiven but an attachment is often ‘still there’–but with God’s help (forgiveness in reconciliation for mortal sin, God’s forgiveness in the beginning of Mass with the penitential rite) our souls will be healed.
However, that doesn’t mean that a person with mortal sin on his/her soul can use ‘that line’ and say, “Ok, yay, I can receive, everybody else is a sinner too, and THEY can, why shouldn’t I”
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
To enter as a member in the body of Christ (Catholic Church) when Jesus is our head.
You need to be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It is here where your faith (“believe”) is professed in the One God creator of heaven and earth, the only begotten Son and the Holy Spirit from the Apostles Creed, in addition an exorcism is made with your profession to reject Satan and all his works.
Saved in Christ Jesus by virtue of your profession of faith and baptism which saves you now. Your journey into eternal life begins. Upon partaking of the body, blood soul and divinity of Jesus Christ, you enter communion in God’s Presence, and into the new and everlasting covenant of God. Once here, your faith is set upon Rock. From this Rock of faith, as a member in full communion in the body of Christ, we live and work out our salvation with fear and trembling, all the while knowing our Good Shepherd never leaves us orphans.
Peace be with you
You need to be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It is here where your faith (“believe”) is professed in the One God creator of heaven and earth, the only begotten Son and the Holy Spirit from the Apostles Creed, in addition an exorcism is made with your profession to reject Satan and all his works.
Saved in Christ Jesus by virtue of your profession of faith and baptism which saves you now. Your journey into eternal life begins. Upon partaking of the body, blood soul and divinity of Jesus Christ, you enter communion in God’s Presence, and into the new and everlasting covenant of God. Once here, your faith is set upon Rock. From this Rock of faith, as a member in full communion in the body of Christ, we live and work out our salvation with fear and trembling, all the while knowing our Good Shepherd never leaves us orphans.
Peace be with you
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Roseeurekacross
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Get yourself into RCIA, and get baptised and the Sacraments. After you complete RCIA and do the Sacrament of Communion, you will be able to participate in that part of the Mass.
We aren’t expected to know stuff off by heart. Or even be amazing scholars. Just read the Bible and celebrate Mass with our Priests. You can go to Mass now, And Pray, praise God. just approach your Diocese and be guided by the people there.
…
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ATraveller
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Can someone be a Catholic if they disagree with transubstantiation and the intercession of saints?
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Roseeurekacross
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Well now they are two very seperate issues.
As to the intercession of saints.
Jesus Christ is the head of the Catholic Church. He is our first Priest, it’s His Church.
We are the body of the Catholic Church, we being the Communion of Saints. This Communion of Saints consists of the Saints in Heaven, the souls in Purgatory, and us faithful on Earth. Now we, the living , are not obliged to agree with the intercession of Saints. We can pray directly to the Trinity.
People seem to have one or two fav Saints though. When we are kids, especially at Christmas, we are quite happy to know St Nick. And Our Lady and St Joseph, her most chaste spouse.
As far as disagreeing that Communion bread and wine becoming the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ,
Jesus gives us the example of doubting Thomas, His Apostle. Thomas had to feel the wounds of the Crucifixion of Christ, the nail holes in Jesus hands, the wound in Jesus side, before Thomas believed in the Resurrection. Jesus had no problem showing Thomas, and accepting that Thomas had doubt.
Jesus knows, as with Thomas, we are human.
We are Pilgrims on the road to God, the road home to Heaven. Doubts and struggles are part of our Journey. And part of our formation to conform to Christ.
How’s that?
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exnihilo
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This is a fair point. But I’d also say when problems like this arise it could be from looking at the Catholic Faith in a fundamentally wrong way. Often times, maybe especially in our modern culture, we decide what we believe based on what makes sense to us. We are asked to believe what the Catholic Church teaches even if we don’t fully understand it or if it doesn’t make sense to us.
This may seem ridiculous to many moderns, but it is no different from the problem the first disciples had. When Jesus taught that was must eat His flesh most people left Him and even the twelve had problems accepting this. It made no sense to them. But they believed it on the authority of Jesus.
In the same way we are to have trust in the authority in the Church. To become Catholic we must have this trust and must be willing to be led by the Church even if we don’t like or understand what she teaches about a particular thing.
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Vonsalza
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reggieM
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No. A Catholic is not permitted to deny those dogmas of the Faith.
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Roseeurekacross
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He is disagreeing, not denying them.
He is doubting. I bet you he spoke to st nick as a kid though
Thanks Vonsalas
I have never met a Protestant in the flesh. But this is rural,Australia
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reggieM
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Ok, but a Catholic is required to assent by faith to the teachings.
Depending on what we might mean by doubt - it could be a very serious sin to doubt the teachings given to us by Jesus Christ.
If it’s a question of a non-Catholic, wondering what the Catholic Faith is and trying to believe it, then yes - that’s a journey. But before becoming a Catholic, a person has to assent to the Faith. The belief may not be totally heartfelt and there are still some areas of uncertainty (it takes time and prayer to become more certain), but those beliefs and others are essential.
I wasn’t sure what he was looking for so I just gave the most direct and clear answer. There are other ways to look at it – as you did and I’m not arguing against you on that.
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reggieM
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Interesting!I have never met a Protestant in the flesh. But this is rural,Australia
I went to Catholic school as a kid and lived around Catholics for many years of youth – and I met only one Protestant kid during that time. I didn’t understand and thought he was just a bad Catholic who didn’t want to go to Mass with us.
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Roseeurekacross
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Is a Protestant the same as a Presbyterian?Interesting!
I went to Catholic school as a kid and lived around Catholics for many years of youth – and I met only one Protestant kid during that time. I didn’t understand and thought he was just a bad Catholic who didn’t want to go to Mass with us.
We have Catholics and Unitings and Anglicans mostly. All denoms join in the Christmas Carols at our Cathedral. Its pretty awesome to get the best singing talent combining.
And a good answer too reggie. .
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Contarini
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I was asked to say that I believed everything the Church taught and professed to be revealed by God. I take this to refer to those things which Canon Law says are to be believed with “divine and Catholic faith.” (See Canon 750.1.)
There is a second level of teaching, referred to as things which are to be “held” rather than “believed.” Canon law and Church documents have stern words for those who deny such teachings (which would include, say, the prohibition on women’s ordination), but one is not formally asked to subscribe to them when being received (if my interpretation is correct–and I ran it by my sponsor and the RCIA leader before I went through with being received). I have questions about some of those second-level teachings, but I would never say flatly that I reject them.
My own view is that one has to balance three things:
- How certain are you that the Church’s claims as a whole are true (i.e., that the Catholic Church is the “True Church” in the nuanced way in which Catholic doctrine defines that term)?
- How certain are you that a particular teaching is really taught definitively and permanently by the Church?
- How certain are you that the teaching in question is false?
In my opinion, as long as 1 is not the bottom item on the list, you can become Catholic. If 1 is higher than 3 for every doctrine on the list you have questions about (i.e., if you are more certain that the Church is true than that any given teaching of the Church is false, then you should become Catholic (since one of the teachings of the Church is that all Christians should be in union with Rome).
So to list all the possible orderings numerically:
123, 213, and 132 should become Catholic.
321 and 231 should not.
312 is a borderline case.
Edwin
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