What do I need to believe to become a Catholic?

[ajcstr]

Can someone be a Catholic if they disagree with transubstantiation and the intercession of saints?

Personally, I don’t like the term “transubstantiation”. You have to understand that the Church being around for so long has had to tweak and define beliefs out of practicality. For instance, is the bread no longer bread, does it return to bread at some point, can I do a DNA test on the bread after consecrated…etc, etc etc. The result is “transubstantiation”.

I treat the bread and wine as the body and blood of my Lord when I receive it. I don’t get into the minutia that the Church had to get into from a practical standpoint. Now, If I believed that its just mumbo jumbo and the bread and wine remain bread and wine, I think that would be a problem because I would not be in communion when I received it and I would not be respecting it for what it is.

Intercession of the saints, as another poster alluded to, would you flat out reject it or would you be open to it just not sure? Nowhere in Catholic practice is it mandatory to seek intersession from saints. Again, if we are truly in communion and one body, then I see the logic behind it just as you would probably have no problem asking someone to pray for you.

 

[reggieM]

Is a Protestant the same as a Presbyterian?

We have Catholics and Unitings and Anglicans mostly. All denoms join in the Christmas Carols at our Cathedral. Its pretty awesome to get the best singing talent combining.

And a good answer too reggie. .

Thanks Rose.
Yes, Presbyterians are Protestants. The term Protestant we use for everyone who is part of the Reformation.

 

[Wesrock]

This is about specifically being Catholic. Of course it’s a matter of developing a relationship with Christ as Lord and God, about repenting sins. But as to “what doctrines…” I suppose it would be coming to first trust in the authority of the Church, not of it’s own accord or merits, mind, but that it is invested in this authority by Christ, and that it has the authority to interpret scriptures and tradition and administer the sacraments. It’s being convinced of that enough that if you realize your thoughts on something are at odds with the Church, you have the humility to accept that the Church has much more experience and authority than you in the matter.

This isn’t to claim that there are no abuses in the Church, or that the men and women in it are perfect or above criticism. But at least recognizing that there’s something bigger than you that you’re willing to trust, and that the Church involves all Christians, but also is represented by the unity of the laity with their priests and the priests with their bishops and the bishops with each other, most especially the See of Rome.

If you can accept that, then I think everything else follows. It’s not about accepting a set list of dogmas and doctrines, it’s accepting the Church for what it is.

 

[ATraveller]

I asked that question regarding MichaelP3’s reply:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14765904&postcount=27
Those two come to mind immediately (at least for me) when one is asked to show how Catholicism and Protestantism differ.

I bet you he spoke to st nick as a kid though

Does a shopping mall St. Nick count?

No. A Catholic is not permitted to deny those dogmas of the Faith.
ajcstr;14767399:

I treat the bread and wine as the body and blood of my Lord when I receive it. I don’t get into the minutia that the Church had to get into from a practical standpoint. Now, If I believed that its just mumbo jumbo and the bread and wine remain bread and wine, I think that would be a problem because I would not be in communion when I received it and I would not be respecting it for what it is.

I’m open to the Catholic doctrine on the Eucharist but I’m not convinced about the nature of it. I think this is a major disagreement a number of Protestants have that makes it difficult to complete that bridge between our denominations.

Intercession of the saints, as another poster alluded to, would you flat out reject it or would you be open to it just not sure? Nowhere in Catholic practice is it mandatory to seek intersession from saints. Again, if we are truly in communion and one body, then I see the logic behind it just as you would probably have no problem asking someone to pray for you.

I see the logic behind it but it seems unnecessary. Other Protestants will say it’s idolatrous and at face value it does look like it until you learn more about how this practice is compatible.

 

[reggieM]

I’m open to the Catholic doctrine on the Eucharist but I’m not convinced about the nature of it. I think this is a major disagreement a number of Protestants have that makes it difficult to complete that bridge between our denominations.

It’s good you’re looking into this and yes, it’s a major point in Catholic belief.
Most of the time, the best way to understand Catholic teaching is to trace it back in history. Also, you could look at the Protestant view and see where you find it in history.
On the Eucharist as the miracle of the Body and Blood of Jesus, we not only find it in Scripture, but in the very earliest Christian writings the same thing is taught.
Yes, it definitely requires faith to accept this belief - but there is a lot of support for that teaching.

I see the logic behind it but it seems unnecessary. Other Protestants will say it’s idolatrous and at face value it does look like it until you learn more about how this practice is compatible.

It might seem unnecessary because we would say “we have God the Father, the Holy Spirit and Jesus and that is more than enough!”

But we don’t turn to the saints because it’s our choice and best option - but because God Himself wants us to seek their help. He wants us to honor the saints and to make them a part of our “spiritual family”. He does that, not only for our benefit, but for the glory of those who served Him.

It’s for our benefit because God wants to know that we are “surrounded by witnesses”. There are saints who experienced so many things that we go through. They want to help us and befriend us. This gives us more strength. We are part of a community.
We also have some responsibility to “honor our mothers and fathers” in the Faith. Making a novena to St. Joseph, for example - is a way of thanking God for the foster father of Jesus and having that friendship.

It pleases God because the saints sacrificed everything for God, and as a reward, God shares the glory and honor that He receives in heaven with those who served Him. That glory and honor comes from the faithful who seek intercession.

 

[Contarini]

Can someone be a Catholic if they disagree with transubstantiation and the intercession of saints?

In my opinion, if you can’t accept either the Catholic doctrine of the Real Presence (“transubstantiation” is the standard term for it, but it’s possible to be a Catholic and think that it’s a somewhat clunky and infelicitous way of expressing the doctrine, in my opinion) or the validity of asking for the intercession of saints, then you can’t become a Catholic with integrity. These are both pretty important Catholic doctrines. Or to put it personally–if I didn’t accept these, I wouldn’t have become Catholic.

You can have all kinds of questions and difficulties, and you don’t have to pray to saints personally, but if you reject these two teachings outright, then it’s hard to see how you could believe that the Church was guided by the Holy Spirit in its teachings, and thus it would seem that you should belong to some other church. If you were already a Catholic I would not talk to you this way, because I think telling people to break communion with the community they are part of is a very serious thing (that’s why I don’t go around telling people to become Catholic either, though obviously I’m even more reluctant to tell someone to leave the Catholic Church because I believe communion with Rome is important). But if you are already a member of a non-Catholic community, why not stay there unless or until you become convinced that Catholicism is true?

 

[reggieM]

These are both pretty important Catholic doctrines. Or to put it personally–if I didn’t accept these, I wouldn’t have become Catholic.

Side note - Congratulations on your entry into the Church! You embarked on quite a journey. I recall reading your posts many years back when you were an Anglican, I think? I took a long time away from CAF so this is a very nice surprise.

 

[twf]

When St John Paul II promulgated the Catechism, he called it a “sure norm” for teaching the faith. While it may include teachings that aren’t dogma or even infallible doctrine per se, I would think all Catholics would have to assent to everything contained therein. We are bound by all that the Magisterium teaches, not just “dogma”.

 

[ajcstr]

Just my 2 cents

I see the logic behind it but it seems unnecessary. Other Protestants will say it’s idolatrous and at face value it does look like it until you learn more about how this practice is compatible.

Isn’t it also unnecessary to ask relatives/friends to pray for you ?

The idolatrous part I will admit is a slippery slope. In my opinion, it would be idolatrous to ask a saint for anything but prayers. If I pray “to” St Jude to cure me, I would agree, that’s a problem. I like the way its stated in Mass “I ask blessed Mary ever virgin, all the angels and saints, and you my brothers and sisters to pray for me to the Lord our God”

 

[ajcstr]

And I wouldn’t mind having St Monica pray for me the same way as she prayed for St Augustine

 

[tafan]

I haven’t read the whole thread in detail, but I think most people are missing the point.

There are three levels of magisterium teaching:

1. Truths taught as divinely revealed: These we must believe in faith, they are part of our faith.
2. definitively proposed statements on matters closely connected with revealed truth

These teachings are also considered infallible. There is no difference with respect to the full and irrevocable character of the assent which is owed to these teachings.

1. ordinary teaching on faith and morals. The faithful are to adhere with religious assent.

catholicism.org/the-three-levels-of-magisterial-teaching.html

 

[reggieM]

When St John Paul II promulgated the Catechism, he called it a “sure norm” for teaching the faith. While it may include teachings that aren’t dogma or even infallible doctrine per se, I would think all Catholics would have to assent to everything contained therein. We are bound by all that the Magisterium teaches, not just “dogma”.

That is definitely the safest and best path to salvation. When we conform to the mind of the Church, we are doing what Jesus wants – and the virtue of obedience is a very important one!

There may be some rare situations where a person who is highly trained in Catholic theology, and with authorization from the bishop, could question a non-infallible teaching. But that must be done carefully and it cannot be expressed as a denial of what is in the Catechism.

 

[Contarini]

Is a Protestant the same as a Presbyterian?

We have Catholics and Unitings and Anglicans mostly. All denoms join in the Christmas Carols at our Cathedral. Its pretty awesome to get the best singing talent combining.

And a good answer too reggie. .

The “Uniting Church” is a union of several denominations, including Presbyterians and Methodists, I believe. Sort of generic mainline Protestants. Anglicans stayed out, and of course even in Australia there are various evangelical churches as well, though not I think anywhere near as many or as prominent as in the States.

 

[KiwiBliss]

Another thread made me think of asking this question.

If was to decide to become Catholic what exactly would I need to believe?

Would I have to affirm that I believe everything in the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

Check out this YouTube video by Catholic Answers live:
“What are the Requirements to Become a Catholic?” youtube.com/watch?v=nhxv7etaYJQ

^This video is a simpler way to answer your question. Hope it helps a bit.

 

[lanman87]

Check out this YouTube video by Catholic Answers live:
“What are the Requirements to Become a Catholic?” youtube.com/watch?v=nhxv7etaYJQ

^This video is a simpler way to answer your question. Hope it helps a bit.

Thank you.

 

[PJM]

Another thread made me think of asking this question.

If was to decide to become Catholic what exactly would I need to believe?

Would I have to affirm that I believe everything in the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

YES! [an even more] for example ALL that the bible really teaches.

WHY?

Because God’s TRUTH can be nothing other than singular per define issue:thumbsup:

GBY and thanks for asking

 

[rinnie]

Another thread made me think of asking this question.

If was to decide to become Catholic what exactly would I need to believe?

Would I have to affirm that I believe everything in the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

yep

 

[upant]

Check out this YouTube video by Catholic Answers live:
“What are the Requirements to Become a Catholic?” youtube.com/watch?v=nhxv7etaYJQ

^This video is a simpler way to answer your question. Hope it helps a bit.

how can one state they believe everything the church teaches as infallible when one may not know what the church teaches exactly.

what is the true policy? like the example in the video, the catechism states one thing on the death penalty but catholic bishops take a different stance.

eating meat on friday for years was such a grievous fault one could not take communion on sunday if they ate meat on friday. now it isn’t.

was the catechism changed? what about those who died under this sin? what is their fate now.

if the church has the keys and makes the rules why are the rules so complex?

 

[Contarini]

how can one state they believe everything the church teaches as infallible when one may not know what the church teaches exactly.

what is the true policy? like the example in the video, the catechism states one thing on the death penalty but catholic bishops take a different stance.

eating meat on friday for years was such a grievous fault one could not take communion on sunday if they ate meat on friday. now it isn’t.

was the catechism changed? what about those who died under this sin? what is their fate now.

if the church has the keys and makes the rules why are the rules so complex?

When we say we believe what the Church teaches, we are making an act of trust in the Church. Of course something could happen that showed that trust to be misplaced, just as, for instance, someone could discover overwhelming evidence that Jesus didn’t rise from the dead (the latter would be a much bigger shock, since the Resurrection is much more central to the Christian Faith than the infallibility of the Church is, but it would be the same kind of thing–new evidence forcing us to completely rethink our paradigm). But to be a Catholic is to believe that the Holy Spirit protects the Church from permanent, fatal error.

On capital punishment, the Church’s teaching is still developing.

The Church never taught that eating meat on Fridays was intrinsically sinful. The Church has the authority to make fasting regulations that are binding on the faithful (with exceptions for emergency situations). It’s discipline, not doctrine.

 

[exnihilo]

how can one state they believe everything the church teaches as infallible when one may not know what the church teaches exactly.

That is a great question. I’d say it is like asking how could an Apostle say he believes everything that Jesus taught or would teach. You believe it on divine authority. The Church is a divine institution. It isn’t just a bunch of men who read Holy Scripture and come up with their best natural understanding of the Faith. You can say you believe everything the Church teaches (and of course there are very reasonable qualifications) because God guides her.