What do Jews think about Jesus?

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I’m a little dubious on chosen people’s claim that they simply had to reject Jesus based on the Scripture cited.

By his logic, Israel should have tossed Joshua out on his ear the moment he told them about God’s command to slaughter and kill in certain conquered territories. That conflicts with the revelation given to Moses, no?

But they didn’t. They recognized God in spite of the difficulty they must have had in comprehending the apparent conflict and chose to obey anyways even if they couldn’t entirely comprehend at first.

cp’s response indicates that if anyone disagrees with the traditional Jewish interpretation of Scripture, he is asserting that Jews must be “feeble-minded” at best, stupid and evil at worst. But what he ignores is that ancient Israel (representative of humanity as a whole) CONSISTENTLY made the mistake of presuming to have God all figured out and refusing to consider the possibility of having made a misunderstood Him. It isn’t just anti-semites that have used the phrase “stiff necked people” about Israel, you know! 😉 Perhaps even the smartest, most educated and clever among us can still screw up once in a while. Maybe that’s why we needed a Savior in the first place…
 
The question of the Jewish rejection of Jesus isn’t a ‘problem’ that exists within the context of Judaism, it’s a ‘problem’ that exists within the context of Christianity.

If one believes the New Testament to be a sacred text, then explanations for our failure to acknowledge Jesus as ‘Savior/Messiah/God’ have apparent importance. If one doesn’t believe that the New Testament is anything of the sort, then such explanations are superfluous - beyond the fringe activities of rejoinders to particular missionary approaches or general conversations on message boards.
 
Kaninchen said:
The question of the Jewish rejection of Jesus isn’t a ‘problem’ that exists within the context of Judaism, it’s a ‘problem’ that exists within the context of Christianity.

If one believes the New Testament to be a sacred text, then explanations for our failure to acknowledge Jesus as ‘Savior/Messiah/God’ have apparent importance. If one doesn’t believe that the New Testament is anything of the sort, then such explanations are superfluous - beyond the fringe activities of rejoinders to particular missionary approaches or general conversations on message boards.
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Not at all. That argument depends on not only rejecting the idea that the New Testament is a sacred text. It depends on the idea that the New Testament is totally false and merely invented and that so such person as Jesus of Nazareth ever existed. This irrationally flies against the fact that the overwhelming majority of professional ancient historians (of all religions and none) agree that the historical evidence is all but overwhelming that the life of Jesus unfolded pretty much as recorded in the New Testament.
 
hello all,

As director of Catholics for Israel, and living in Jerusalem, I have had hundreds of conversations with Jewish friends on this topic.

A while back I wrote an article entitled Why Don’t (Most) Jews Believe in Jesus? which directly addressed this question. You may be surprised by some of the reasons behind the Jewish resistance to Jesus, and I hope this might help in bringing some insights to this discussion.

On the positive side, although most Jews are still quite resistant to Jesus and to the claims of Christianity, there is probably more openness on their side to the person of Jesus than there has ever been. Hopefully we Catholics and Christians can continue to work together so that we may increasingly remove the historical and theological obstacles standing in the way of their salvation.

You may want to check out our online Bible Study where we present a biblical and Jewish perspective on Salvation History and the Catholic Faith.

Or, check out our articles on the Messiah in the Old Testament, the Divinity of the Messiah, and the Blessed Trinity explaining these issues from biblical and Jewish perspective.

I hope this helps!

With blessings from Jerusalem,

Ariel Ben Ami
Catholics for Israel
 
Thanks, Ariel…I have been pondering some of the other articles attached to your email…very profound and various perspectives…

Also the link to Hebrewcatholic.org…is very interesting and it is a real blessing to relearn aspects of my faith from Jewish Catholics…who prefer Hebrew…they have been working on having a Hebrew rite…wonder if it is possible.
 
The Jews i have met, including several past and my present partner (we are not married), are totally unsympathetic to the miracles. I never delved into this with my girlfriends, but the male Jews I have been aquainted with all are basically amenable to the idea that Jesus was a rabbi. Jews, like every other religious group, are comprised of individuals with beliefs along a continuim. There are busloads of Jews for Jesus, and many Jewish converts to Catholicism. However, as I get older, and have seen more pain in some of my Jewish friends - I have tried to help alleviate the suffering as best as I can. I can’t teach mosaic law to a Jew, they already know it. So I offer the miracles of Jesus as I have learned them. A soft heart is important to an aging, increasingly decrepit frame. If the question is asked, instead of the doctrine forced: Do you think it is possible that he did this? Most Jews I know will answer yes. Particularly powerful is the rasing of Lazurus. The Gospel does not tell us that Jesus preplanned raising his friend. He did it because he was moved emotionally by loss of his friend and the despair of his fellow Jews in the face of the finality of death. The Gospel says he was ‘deeply troubled’. This miracle was a favor to his friends, a mitzvah, a good deed (I apologize if I have use the word incorrectly).

The point about Jesus being a rabbi is essential to my understanding of the Jewish people and their faith. Above all a rabbi teaches about God. Once a person reaches the age where he or she is an adult, he is legally a Jew. After that age his knowledge of God is complete and a rabbi can only guide him. (Again, I apologize if this is imperfect understanding).

So in evaluating Jesus as a rabbi, the practical question for Jews must be in determining if he did humanity an overall service. The service a rabbi can do for a gentile is to make him a Jew. Gentiles are not born under mosaic law. Paul, the Jewish author of the Letter to the Romans, makes clear that Christians are God’s children by adoption. I have always held and believe that when Jesus refers to himself as the Son of Man, it is so that they will remember God is their father. If Jesus put the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob into gentiles, then his mission was a success. Jesus converted we gentiles into Jews.

The miracles become an issue because they are the primary historical recordings of Jesus’ mission and thus represent for we gentiles the power of God. Yet the command stands: “Thou shalt not lie”. If a Jew believes not in the miracles, he must surely wonder how on earth a doctrine of “made up stories” could put God who is the truth in the Gentiles.

Some Jews are in awe of the beauty of the gospels, especially in the parables. Others focus on the consequential calamity of the mass conversion of the gentiles on those who were born under mosiac law.

There is more to say, but I feel as though all I have done is state the obvious.
 
Michael19682 said:
If Jesus put the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob into gentiles, then his mission was a success. Jesus converted we gentiles into Jews.

The miracles become an issue because they are the primary historical recordings of Jesus’ mission and thus represent for we gentiles the power of God. Yet the command stands: “Thou shalt not lie”. If a Jew believes not in the miracles, he must surely wonder how on earth a doctrine of “made up stories” could put God who is the truth in the Gentiles.

Some Jews are in awe of the beauty of the gospels, especially in the parables. Others focus on the consequential calamity of the mass conversion of the gentiles on those who were born under mosiac law.

There is more to say, but I feel as though all I have done is state the obvious.
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How on earth could a Jew view the conversion of millions of gentiles into belief in and worship of the One True God, as a “calamity”? Would he prefer that they remain heathens? Surely not. If for no other reason, then because anti-semitism has always been far worse among non-Chrisdtians than among Christians. As evidence the fact that for at least the last 1000 years and even to this day, the majority of the world’s Jews choose to live in Christian-majority countries.
 
Petergee said:
How on earth could a Jew view the conversion of millions of gentiles into belief in and worship of the One True God, as a “calamity”? Would he prefer that they remain heathens? Surely not. If for no other reason, then because anti-semitism has always been far worse among non-Chrisdtians than among Christians. As evidence the fact that for at least the last 1000 years and even to this day, the majority of the world’s Jews choose to live in Christian-majority countries.
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I applaud you for posting. I was beginning to think this thread was going nowhere. Your sincerity and inquiry into my viewpoint/observation is most welcome and rings of an invitation to respond frankly once again, so I will. Again, I have no agenda here other than frank discussion. You seem amenable to that.

Let me begin by pointing out that you cite as a fact the majority of the world’s Jews choose to live in Christian countries (I prefer ‘nation’, but you said ‘country’, so I’ll use your verbiage). If that is true then you have created a short circuited agrument for yourself. Jews are constantly complaining of anti-semitism. For many this complaint is the very essense of their spiritual life. Where but in Christian countries do they encounter the anti-semitism? If anti-semitism is far worse in non-Christian countries, then how did you find out? If a Jew in America is complaining of American anti-semitism, what does that have to do with anti-semitism elswhere? A calamity is that which affects large numbers of people, like a tsunami or an earthquake or a nuclear meltdown. If anti-semitism is a calamity, it therefore affects large numbers of Jews, which, as you have said, live mostly in Christian countries. Ergo, the conversion of gentiles to the One True God has resulted in a calamity for Jews, i.e., in anti-semitism amongst Christians.

If you meant to say simply that had the heathens (and that term is not really accurate as the ancients of all nations knew of God, but simply had never been told of Abraham, Issac and Jacob) been never baptized into the the Lord’s body, that anti-semitism would have been worse for the Jews, then I don’t know if your claim about a more fierce anti-semitism amongst non-Christians necessarily proves such a statement. We simply don’t know nor can we speculate on possible histories. We only know what we have on the books. (incidentally, Maccabees, which the protestants conveniently smudged out of their Bible, outlines a very nice treaty between the Romans and the Jews, possibly suggesting that if the Jews hadn’t betrayed that trust, they might have fared very well under a sympathetic Roman Emperor).

God obviously planned it differently as someone with the name peter certainly knows better than I.
 
Michael19682 said:
you cite as a fact the majority of the world’s Jews choose to live in Christian countries (I prefer ‘nation’, but you said ‘country’, so I’ll use your verbiage). If that is true
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I didn’t know anybody seriously disputed this fact but if you want proof see e.g. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jewish_population_comparisons

No idea what point you’re trying to make by drawing a distinctiion between “country” and “nation”, but whichever term you use, the fact remains correct.
then you have created a short circuited agrument for yourself. Jews are constantly complaining of anti-semitism. For many this complaint is the very essense of their spiritual life.
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Not their spiritual life. But for many totally secularised people of Jewish descent living in Western countries since the 19th century and especially since 1945 when such people have been more numerous, the essence of their self-identification as Jews lies merely in the fact that they are “not Christian” and/or are constantly alert for real or imagined manifestations of anti-semitism against themselves.

Thus the remarkable phenomenon that most Jews view with equanimity a Jew’s total abandonment of the God of Israel to enmbrace atheism, and still regard him (as he regards himself) as Jewish, yet they consider a Jew who believes the Messianic prophecies have been fulfilled in Jesus of Nazareth, to have “abandoned Judaism”. (As many Jewish Christians have noted, they have not abandoned anything of Judaism, they have added to and completed it.)
Where but in Christian countries do they encounter the anti-semitism? If anti-semitism is far worse in non-Christian countries, then how did you find out?
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My goodness, these questions cannot be serious are they?

See e.g. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-semitism (sorry to use wikipedia, there are many other sources this is just the most convenient).
If a Jew in America is complaining of American anti-semitism, what does that have to do with anti-semitism elswhere? A calamity is that which affects large numbers of people, like a tsunami or an earthquake or a nuclear meltdown. If anti-semitism is a calamity, it therefore affects large numbers of Jews, which, as you have said, live mostly in Christian countries.
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Your reasoning seems to be:
  1. Most Jews live in Christian-majority countries/nations
  2. .Every Jew in the whole world suffers an exactly equal amount of anti-semitism.
  3. Therefore most anti-semitism must be committed by Christians.
Point 2 is wrong which makes point 3 wrong. There are a smaller number of Jews in non-Christian countries, but Jews suffer on average far worse anti-semitism from non-Christians than from Christians.

A similar situation exists with persecution of Christians, which is the most common form of religious persecutiion in the wiorld today and is certainly a calamity for Christians. The vast majority of, and the worst forms of, persecution of Christians occur in Islamic- and Marxist-ruled countries. However only a minority of the world’s Christians live in those countries (largely because of the persecution which has persisted for centuries).
Ergo, the conversion of gentiles to the One True God has resulted in a calamity for Jews, i.e., in anti-semitism amongst Christians.
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Now your argument is getting even more absurd. You seriously suggest that converting to Christianity** makes** a Jewish-friendly heathen into an anti-semite?
If you meant to say simply that had the heathens (and that term is not really accurate as the ancients of all nations knew of God,
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That’s true if you go back far enough, but by the time of Abraham, most people had druifted away from this truth into the untruths of polytheism, pantheism and panentheism.
but simply had never been told of Abraham, Issac and Jacob) been never baptized into the the Lord’s body, that anti-semitism would have been worse for the Jews, then I don’t know if your claim about a more fierce anti-semitism amongst non-Christians necessarily proves such a statement. We simply don’t know nor can we speculate on possible histories. We only know what we have on the books.
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I wasn’t indulging in speculation about possible alternate histories. I was speaking about what has actually happened in history.
(incidentally, Maccabees, which the protestants conveniently smudged out of their Bible, outlines a very nice treaty between the Romans and the Jews, possibly suggesting that if the Jews hadn’t betrayed that trust, they might have fared very well under a sympathetic Roman Emperor).
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The Jews signed that treaty to get the Romans to help them get the Seleucid Greeks off their backs who had been oppressing them for 170 years. They were not to know that by 100 years later the Romans would have grown even stronger, have conquered the Greek-Seleucids and then conquered Judea and eventually oppressed the Jews more fircely than the Greeks had ever done. It’s not a matter of how nice and pro-Jewish the pagan Romans were, it’s a matter of how powerful they were at the time. The Romansd in 150 BC were simply more concerned with defeating the Greeks than with conquering the further-away Jews (“my enemy’s enemy is my friend” - at least until I conquer my enemy , then my enemy’s enemy may become my enemy as I seek to conquer him in turn. ).
 
Petergee said:
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the essence of their self-identification as Jews lies merely in the fact that they are “not Christian” and/or are constantly alert for real or imagined manifestations of anti-semitism against themselves.
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If this is true then for those many, they are found to not really consider themselves Jews any longer, but rather think of themselves as “not Christian” lumped along with all others who fail to acknowledge the Lord. Thus for them, in essence, there is no longer a living semitic culture - in other words, as you point out later, atheism (one of the forms of denying our Lord) is wholly acceptable to them because it conforms to their one rule, “not Christian”. It is strange that this line of reasoning leads to the conclusion that there is no longer such a thing as anti semitism. How could there be something against that which no longer exists (i.e. semitic culture).
and still regard him (as he regards himself) as Jewish
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Perhaps it is true that some Jews have retained enough of themselves to be regarded as Jewish. Still, if the “not Christian” Jews prove the non existence of anti semitism in the very essence of their being, how do the remaining Jews establish anti semitism? Frankly, I don’t know why they do.
Your reasoning seems to be:
  1. Most Jews live in Christian-majority countries/nations
  2. .Every Jew in the whole world suffers an exactly equal amount of anti-semitism.
  3. Therefore most anti-semitism must be committed by Christians.
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You used some of my reasoning and your conclusions are correct by a strictly utilitarian method of calculation (presuming you have or have been given by (?) a forumula for assessing the complicated arithmetic necessary for making a weighted average or aggregate sum decision of where the “most” anti-semitism has taken place. However, all I said was that anti semitism, which the Jews and the Jews alone say derives from the mass conversion of gentiles to Christianity was a calamity for Jews. You pointed out that Christains suffer the most persecution in the world today. Christians are taught to view their cross as a sign of triumph. So with your permission I would extend your argument to say that anti Christian sentiment, though sad and regrettable and the result of evil, is not really a calamity for Christendom, but is rather an attempt by evil to reenact the original sacrfice of the Lord in the cross. Thus, for those who call think the Christian world Christendom, hatred against them is their foundation and stability (and hence they use bombs and all sorts of weapons to defend it with ferocity - for that creates a vicious cycle that ensures they will always have enemies and hence a faith). For Roman Catholics, who call their body the Church, their is the acknowledgement that our foundation and stability is a profession of the divinity of Christ, a tradition handed down to us since Year One and that we are a body that defends itself with prayer, fasting, and a simply pronouncement of certain words with which all Christians are familiar.
That’s true if you go back far enough, but by the time of Abraham, most people had druifted away from this truth into the untruths of polytheism, pantheism and panentheism.
I wasn’t indulging in speculation about possible alternate histories. I was speaking about what has actually happened in history.
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You seem more versed in that history than I.
The Jews signed that treaty to get the Romans to help them get the Seleucid Greeks off their backs who had been oppressing them for 170 years. They were not to know that by 100 years later the Romans would have grown even stronger, have conquered the Greek-Seleucids
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Why did the Jews, protected by a covenant with God, need the help of the Romans? The book referred to says of the Romans: “All who heard of their name feared them…” Surely the Jews who sought to enroll among the allies of Rome must have known the Romans would defeat the Greeks, or else why did they seek an alliance? True that the Romans grew very strong in the ancient world, and as today, superpowers who are entreatied by lesser nations are often little in the consideration of these whom they help. This is not to say that their smaller allies secretly wish their overthrow, but that these small allies could give a hoot what happens to the superpower so long as they themselves are removed from immediate danger. The Jews of the day made a simple request; today the political scene is far more complicated.
 
This is a fascinating discussion, I especially appreciate the (name removed by moderator)ut from the Jewish members of the forum, in terms of some of the theological premises. While there was mention of anti-semitism as a factor, I think it is the mediocrity of most Christians, including myself, that blurs the image of Jesus in everybody’s minds. They can’t accept the story of Christ’s miracles if they see no miracle in the life of Christ’s followers they have met thus far. They see most Catholics going along with the crowd on accumulating possessions, accepting legal abortion, ignoring the needs of the poor in their zip code.
If even 5 percent of Catholics were like Mother Theresa, intellectual difficulties might be seen in a new light. Again, I’m not minimizing the genuine scriptural, traditional and spiritual arguments, and I envy those who know more than I do. I’m just a reader here, somewhat over my head.
 
Michael19682 said:
all I said was that anti semitism, which the Jews and the Jews alone say derives from the mass conversion of gentiles to Christianity
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Really? Please reference me where all, most, many or indeed any Jew says that.
Why did the Jews, protected by a covenant with God, need the help of the Romans? The book referred to says of the Romans: “All who heard of their name feared them…” Surely the Jews who sought to enroll among the allies of Rome must have known the Romans would defeat the Greeks, or else why did they seek an alliance? True that the Romans grew very strong in the ancient world, and as today, superpowers who are entreatied by lesser nations are often little in the consideration of these whom they help. This is not to say that their smaller allies secretly wish their overthrow, but that these small allies could give a hoot what happens to the superpower so long as they themselves are removed from immediate danger. The Jews of the day made a simple request; today the political scene is far more complicated.
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Gee, have you read the Old Testament? The political scene was very complicated and the Jews were constantly making and breaking alliances with other nations in order to get a military or other advantage.

And I know of no prophecy in the OT or anyywhere else, which gave the Jews prescient knowledge that the Romans would grow to become the greatest and amost powerful empire the world had ever seen.
 
mathematoons said:
I read that Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet, who will return one day to proclaim the teachings of Islam. So what do Jews believe about Him? If Jesus was not the Messiah, who was He?
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As my knowledge is concern,

(1.) Jews looks upon Jesus (peace be upon him) as a son from concubinage to Joseph (the Carpenter).

(2.) Yes, Jesus (peace be upon him) is no doubt a prophet. Refer to this site:

islamicity.org/Mosque/Muhammad_Bible.HTM

According to Prophetic teaching, Jesus (peace be upon him) will return in this earth 40 years before the earth will crumble itself to pieces. to teach people the truth. Jesus (peace be upon him) was not crucified.

Jesus (peace be upon him) is a Messenger sent from God, and Muhammed (Peace be Upon him) told Muslims that all Messengers sent form God must be respected and Loved.

I hope I give a good glimpse.

👍
 
What do Jews think about Jesus?
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I think the Jews think that that the emmanuel jesus lamb of god was not the Conquering Political Warrior Messiah they were expecting.
 
Michael19682 said:
*Originally Posted by Petergee

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Really? Please reference me where all, most, many or indeed any Jew says that.*
You don’t agree that anti-semitism in Christian nations has been a calamity for Jews? If it has been, how could Jews be unaware if it?
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Anti-semitism anywhere has been a calamity for Jews. The fact that many people have become Christian and so have been on average less anti-semitic, is a blessing for Jews.
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Gee, have you read the Old Testament? The political scene was very complicated and the Jews were constantly making and breaking alliances with other nations in order to get a military or other advantage.
I have read it. It must be approached with guidance, since it is imperfect. If you still want to say that the political scene was very complicated at the time of Maccabees and the Jewish alliance with Rome; I don’t dispute you. You say that they (the Jews) were constantly making and breaking alliances to get a military or other advantage. Does that statement refer to the time encompassing the entire OT or just the book of Maccabees which were discussing?
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I was referring to the time ever since, as you said, the Jews had a covenant with God, i.e. from Abraham onwards.
Are you widening the discussion to now include the history of the Jewish people before anti-semitism began?
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There was no such time. As long as there have been Jews, there has been anti-semitism.
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And I know of no prophecy in the OT or anyywhere else, which gave the Jews prescient knowledge that the Romans would grow to become the greatest and amost powerful empire the world had ever seen
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I was only referring to the book of Macabees; and apparently at that time the Romans were, relative to the Jews who sought their help, very near as you again descibe they would come to be.
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No, at that time the Romans were only a very minor player in the eastern mediterranean. It wasn’t until 100 to 150 years later that they conquered Asia Minor, Egypt and Syria and made Judea into a satellite state.
 
Petergee said:
As long as there have been Jews, there has been anti-semitism.
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Adam was the first Jew created, Eve shortly thereafter. Do you mean to say that the Creator is a Jewish man? Or do you wish to abandon their argument, please.

Since I am not sure how to make you aware that I pray for you on this forum’s venue, I will act for a moment as your friend and advocate even though you have not explicitly asked.

Eve was created from one of the ribs of Adam. Therefore they are essentially one flesh. All their progeny are of its flesh also. The only statement you can make in defense of your position is that unless God is a Jewish man, there is and can only be one Jewish flesh. Thus the word ‘Jews’ is derived from a logical fallacy.
 
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