S
sainted
Guest
I won’t be surprised if it turns out in fullfilment of the much prophesied and awaited Final Tribulation and the cruellest Persecution that is to come upon humankind.
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M
MommaKat
Guest
This may be what was foretold in Gensis 16
I will make your descendants so numberous, added the Lord’s messenger, "that they will be too many to count. Besides the Lord’s messenger said to her
"You, are now pregnant and shall bear a son: you shall name him Ishmael, For the Lord has heard you, God has answered you.
He shall be a wild *** of a man, his hand against everyone, and everyone’s hand against him, I opposition to all his kin shall he encamp.
I will make your descendants so numberous, added the Lord’s messenger, "that they will be too many to count. Besides the Lord’s messenger said to her
"You, are now pregnant and shall bear a son: you shall name him Ishmael, For the Lord has heard you, God has answered you.
He shall be a wild *** of a man, his hand against everyone, and everyone’s hand against him, I opposition to all his kin shall he encamp.
S
Scotty_PGH
Guest
Jesus Christ is God made flesh.
J
Joseph_Alison
Guest
Scotty PGH:
If you say “made”, to me -a non-Christian- it means someone else made him flesh. May be there is another way of reformulating the statement above, or is it the correct one?
Salaam.
Joseph.
Salaam Scotty;
If you say “made”, to me -a non-Christian- it means someone else made him flesh. May be there is another way of reformulating the statement above, or is it the correct one?
Salaam.
Joseph.
S
Scotty_PGH
Guest
It is the correct one.
The Gospel of John, Chapter 1:
He was made flesh BY the power of the Holy Spirit, OF the Blessed Virgin Mary.
J
Joseph_Alison
Guest
Scotty PGH:
Please bear with me; I am trying to understand how it works.
If Jesus was God in the flesh and knowing that God is infinite in his attributes, but human is finite, how can the infinite be finite in the same time? And if Jesus was fully God, it means he was free from any limitations, and if he was fully human, it means he had all the human limitations, how can a person be limited and unlimited in the same time? Thank you for your time.
Salaam.
Joseph.
Salaam Scotty;
Please bear with me; I am trying to understand how it works.
If Jesus was God in the flesh and knowing that God is infinite in his attributes, but human is finite, how can the infinite be finite in the same time? And if Jesus was fully God, it means he was free from any limitations, and if he was fully human, it means he had all the human limitations, how can a person be limited and unlimited in the same time? Thank you for your time.
Salaam.
Joseph.
G
gurrato_alaien
Guest
Salam brother Joseph,
I think even the Christians scholars cannot recognize the concept of trinity they contradict each other.
Salam.
I think even the Christians scholars cannot recognize the concept of trinity they contradict each other.
Salam.
S
Scotty_PGH
Guest
Salami to you brothers Allison and Gusano Alien.
Just so I am clear – where exactly is your confusion? You believe God is all-powerful, yet somehow incapable of becoming flesh and living among us?
E
exoflare
Guest
Scotty PGH:
Their belief is that God has the power to do this, but that it would be somehow “unbefitting” for him to do so.
G
gurrato_alaien
Guest
Scotty PGH:
You know your Question is wrong; it seems really like this Question: “ can God kill himself?”
make no sense
As Muslims we believe that Christians have committed a great blasphemy by trying to attribute a son to God.
Please think hundreds times in that.
Salam.
Salam brother too
You know your Question is wrong; it seems really like this Question: “ can God kill himself?”
make no sense
As Muslims we believe that Christians have committed a great blasphemy by trying to attribute a son to God.
Please think hundreds times in that.
Salam.
J
Joseph_Alison
Guest
Scotty PGH:
I try as hard as I can not to discuss the supposed divinity of Jesus, that is because there is a great potential to offend others in doing so. I am doing it here for the sole purpose to answer your question and then I will stop.
Yes, we believe God is All-Powerful.
Sayings (JN 5:30, JN 8:28) from the Bible, -from Jesus himself- state that he was not all-powerful. The question is: how an All-Powerful being becomes a less powerful being while keeping his divinity? In other words, how can a person be all-powerful and less powerful in the same time?
God becoming a human in the flesh implies a lot of things. It makes Him under the mercy of hunger, He would have to eat in order to stay alive, and we Muslims can’t imagine God in need of His creation to subsist; as He would have to sleep to get some rest; we can’t imagine the One in charge of the universe fall asleep; as He would have to drink to quench his thirst, if not he would die etc; these are limitations, limitations which we don’t believe the All-Powerful God to be subjected to.
Please ponder the following verses and see if the attitude of Jesus is of someone All Knowing, All-Powerful.
MK 11:12 And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
MK 11:13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
MK 11:14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter forever. And his disciples heard it.
Jesus (God who created everything?) was hungry.
He hoped to find something to eat from the fig tree (was not sure).
Found nothing but leaves, normal because the time of figs was not yet and Jesus (God who created everything?) did not know.
Although it was not its fault, condemned it to be barren forever. In Matthew the fig tree withered right away.
Was Jesus, in this event of the fig tree, human only or fully God fully human?
Salaam.
Joseph.
Salaam Brother Scotty;
I try as hard as I can not to discuss the supposed divinity of Jesus, that is because there is a great potential to offend others in doing so. I am doing it here for the sole purpose to answer your question and then I will stop.
Yes, we believe God is All-Powerful.
Sayings (JN 5:30, JN 8:28) from the Bible, -from Jesus himself- state that he was not all-powerful. The question is: how an All-Powerful being becomes a less powerful being while keeping his divinity? In other words, how can a person be all-powerful and less powerful in the same time?
God becoming a human in the flesh implies a lot of things. It makes Him under the mercy of hunger, He would have to eat in order to stay alive, and we Muslims can’t imagine God in need of His creation to subsist; as He would have to sleep to get some rest; we can’t imagine the One in charge of the universe fall asleep; as He would have to drink to quench his thirst, if not he would die etc; these are limitations, limitations which we don’t believe the All-Powerful God to be subjected to.
Please ponder the following verses and see if the attitude of Jesus is of someone All Knowing, All-Powerful.
MK 11:12 And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
MK 11:13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
MK 11:14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter forever. And his disciples heard it.
Jesus (God who created everything?) was hungry.
He hoped to find something to eat from the fig tree (was not sure).
Found nothing but leaves, normal because the time of figs was not yet and Jesus (God who created everything?) did not know.
Although it was not its fault, condemned it to be barren forever. In Matthew the fig tree withered right away.
Was Jesus, in this event of the fig tree, human only or fully God fully human?
Salaam.
Joseph.
D
DOXA
Guest
Peace be with you all,
I am an Orthodox Christian.
Firstly, one should clarify that Christianity, is a continuation of Judaic worship of God as ONE God, as a Mono-theistic religion, we do not believe in more than One God.
“I believe in One God, Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible…”
Secondly, Allah (God the father) has never become flesh, nor has He ever been seen by any human being at any time.
"No person has ever seen God at any time;…" (John 1:18a).
*
So how can Christians still believe that God became flesh/human? Isn’t this blasphemy? Why do they contradict their own teacings?
The truth is that just because God is not seen does not mean He does not visit us in many different ways. His messengers, the angels and prophets all deliver The Word of God. And those who listen to the Word these messengers, prophets kings and angels bring, listen the the Holy Word of God.
So was Jesus Christ simply a messenger, or a prophet of God delivering the Word of God? Was he perhaps a king or an angel? Yes he was a messenger, yes He was a prophet, yes he was a king. But he was not an angel. He was something much more than all these.
God had promised through the prophets that he would send the Messiah (the anointed one) which means Christ. He would grow up from amongst us and be one with us.
God spoke to Isaiah the prophet through His angel saying that God will send His anointed Servant:
"…the only begotten Son, The One Who Ιs (ο Ων) in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him know." (John 1:18).
The Word or Logos of God which is like the Mind of God, is present in Holy Scripture, it is present in the lips of the angels and heavenly ministers, the holy prophets, the kings and leaders annointed by God, the Word of God which always was and always will be has even dwelt amongst us on Mount Sinai, but most importantly the Word of God has also dwelt inside Mary for a while and has become human for our salvation to be sent as a light to the ends of the world because a mere servant of God could not do what God had planned from the beginning.
From my mind to my heart to my lips all praise be to God.*
Salaam.
I am an Orthodox Christian.
Firstly, one should clarify that Christianity, is a continuation of Judaic worship of God as ONE God, as a Mono-theistic religion, we do not believe in more than One God.
“I believe in One God, Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible…”
Secondly, Allah (God the father) has never become flesh, nor has He ever been seen by any human being at any time.
"No person has ever seen God at any time;…" (John 1:18a).
*
So how can Christians still believe that God became flesh/human? Isn’t this blasphemy? Why do they contradict their own teacings?
The truth is that just because God is not seen does not mean He does not visit us in many different ways. His messengers, the angels and prophets all deliver The Word of God. And those who listen to the Word these messengers, prophets kings and angels bring, listen the the Holy Word of God.
So was Jesus Christ simply a messenger, or a prophet of God delivering the Word of God? Was he perhaps a king or an angel? Yes he was a messenger, yes He was a prophet, yes he was a king. But he was not an angel. He was something much more than all these.
God had promised through the prophets that he would send the Messiah (the anointed one) which means Christ. He would grow up from amongst us and be one with us.
God spoke to Isaiah the prophet through His angel saying that God will send His anointed Servant:
Christ (Messiah) is this “Servant” of God who is un-created. “…Begotten, NOTcreated, of one essence with the Father, through whom all things were made.”
"…the only begotten Son, The One Who Ιs (ο Ων) in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him know." (John 1:18).
The Word or Logos of God which is like the Mind of God, is present in Holy Scripture, it is present in the lips of the angels and heavenly ministers, the holy prophets, the kings and leaders annointed by God, the Word of God which always was and always will be has even dwelt amongst us on Mount Sinai, but most importantly the Word of God has also dwelt inside Mary for a while and has become human for our salvation to be sent as a light to the ends of the world because a mere servant of God could not do what God had planned from the beginning.
From my mind to my heart to my lips all praise be to God.*
Salaam.
T
Tonks40
Guest
Peace be with you all:
I guess what we have here is the definition of who God is between Muslims and Christians. Muslims cannot understand why God would subject himself to the lowliness of humanity, while Christians, knowing that God is all-powerful and is creator of all things, see that sending Himself in the form of the Messiah to Earth to be among man is definately possible.
Christians believe that God’s power is something that we cannot totally comprehend, yet we see it through the fulfillment of ancient Scripture, through miracles (both the materialistic and spiritual), and through the good works hidden within man as guided by the Holy Spirit and planted by grace.
It appears that Muslims, though knowing that God is all-powerful and is the creator of all things, place a certain amount of restrictions on what God is able to reveal to mankind. (Correct me if I’m wrong). They also seem to try and “get into the mind” of God, ruling out certain possibilities of his omnipotence.
Does this appear to you, also?
I guess what we have here is the definition of who God is between Muslims and Christians. Muslims cannot understand why God would subject himself to the lowliness of humanity, while Christians, knowing that God is all-powerful and is creator of all things, see that sending Himself in the form of the Messiah to Earth to be among man is definately possible.
Christians believe that God’s power is something that we cannot totally comprehend, yet we see it through the fulfillment of ancient Scripture, through miracles (both the materialistic and spiritual), and through the good works hidden within man as guided by the Holy Spirit and planted by grace.
It appears that Muslims, though knowing that God is all-powerful and is the creator of all things, place a certain amount of restrictions on what God is able to reveal to mankind. (Correct me if I’m wrong). They also seem to try and “get into the mind” of God, ruling out certain possibilities of his omnipotence.
Does this appear to you, also?
E
Edris
Guest
Code:
Peace
We believe the same thing that God is All-Powerful and the creator of all things, but same as u we also believe that God is omniscient, He's the All-Knowing, his knowledge covers everything, and that includes the feelings of human beings, he created us and he knows how we function and how we feel, he doesn't need to incarnate into a human being and live between us to know how we feel.
The only thing that God restricted on himself is Al-Zulm (Opression).
Code:
God didn't reveal everything to mankind...
(Qur'an 17:85) "...and of knowledge, you (mankind) have been given only a little"
I believe the only point of difference between muslims and christians is the way you look at Jesus (pbuh), (Son of God or one of the mightiest Prophets). By the way, we also believe the Jesus pbuh is the Messiah and not Muhammad pbuh.
i have a question, If God wanted to send us his only Son to save us from the original sin that Adam & Eve pbut committed, then why did he wait till two thousand years ago, i think he should've sent him immediately after the sin was committed? Don't you think so. Because all humankind in the period between Adam and Jesus worshiped God (i.e The Father), until christianity the One God is still one God but in three persons. Shouldn't all humanity deserve to worship the same God?
D
DOXA
Guest
Peace Edris,
That is a very very profoundly deep question. If you read genesis there were 2 trees planted in the garden. They were there for a purpose. The sin of eating of the tree of “knowledge of good and evil” was not that the tree was sinful, since man was made like God, knowing the difference between good and evil.
You see, when a child is growing up, do you teach him or her about drugs, murder, pornography etc? No you only teach them to be good. But after they grow up they want to find out more. God was keeping this tree and t’s fruit away from Adam and Eve until they had matured and were ready to know about good and evil.
The second tree was the “tree of eternal life”. There was no rule for this tree for some reason, but as soon as Adam and Eve took the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, God placed an angel with a blazing sword to protect the tree and prevent mankind from living for ever in eternity with God, (as He does).
"And the Lord ELLOHIM said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” Genesis 3:22 (notice: Ellohim in Hebrew is plural for Elloh or in Arabic ALLAH)
The point is why did God put these to trees in the garden in the 1st place if they were not supposed to eaten from? So, they were supposed to be eaten from, but in their due time.
Now the tree of life for us all is none other than the Cross of Christ.
B
Booklover
Guest
You know, you Muslims never cease to amaze me! First, you don’t really think that God is omnipotent and that nothing is impossible for him, and now you’re making statements as to when he should have done something!
B
Booklover
Guest
Yes, that’s it in a nutshell! They only believe in what they can comprehend with the human mind!
B
Booklover
Guest
I really like your signature quote “Take away temptations and no one will be saved”
That’s something else funny about Islam, they believe in being virtuous by removing the temptation, not by resisting it! Like their being forbidden by force from having an alcoholic drink for instance.
E
Edris
Guest
How do you resist it?
J
Joseph_Alison
Guest
QUOTE=Booklover]That’s something else funny about Islam, they believe in being virtuous by removing the temptation, not by resisting it!
Salaam Booklover;
In dealing with temptations, Islam goes to the root causes not the symptoms. For instance, to deal with the sin of adultery, many barriers are put in its way: Lower your gaze, cover yourself, don’t intermingle, marry as early as you can and best of all, a teaching which help Muslims be in quasi-constant remembrance of Allah (SWT); and If all these barriers are not enough, then the punishment, if caught, is very deterrent. This approach proved efficient. Can we say the same thing about resisting the temptation to commit adultery? I don’t think I need to give the answer, you know it. The effects of adultery? They are well known too: increased divorce, single mothers in the rise, AIDS, shattering of families and the innocent children pay the price too.
The same thing can be said about almost any other temptation. Another example: drinking of alcohol. The current approach in the Christian world is to drink moderately. But how many can resist the temptation to drink more than moderately? The statistics are scary.
What is the approach Islam takes to deal with alcohol? Best of all, as said before, a teaching which help Muslims be in quasi-constant remembrance of Allah (SWT), then the curse pronounced by the Prophet (PBUH) against anyone involved in: cutting the grapes (which make vine), transporting them, crushing them and selling the final product. Then the following prohibition: everything which makes someone drunk when taken in big quantity is forbidden to be taken in small quantity, even if not alcohol or vine. To cite only these two barriers.
Allah (SWT) knows His creation and set for them a religion which when followed correctly protects them and helps them live a healthy life.
Salaam.
Joseph.
Salaam Booklover;
In dealing with temptations, Islam goes to the root causes not the symptoms. For instance, to deal with the sin of adultery, many barriers are put in its way: Lower your gaze, cover yourself, don’t intermingle, marry as early as you can and best of all, a teaching which help Muslims be in quasi-constant remembrance of Allah (SWT); and If all these barriers are not enough, then the punishment, if caught, is very deterrent. This approach proved efficient. Can we say the same thing about resisting the temptation to commit adultery? I don’t think I need to give the answer, you know it. The effects of adultery? They are well known too: increased divorce, single mothers in the rise, AIDS, shattering of families and the innocent children pay the price too.
The same thing can be said about almost any other temptation. Another example: drinking of alcohol. The current approach in the Christian world is to drink moderately. But how many can resist the temptation to drink more than moderately? The statistics are scary.
What is the approach Islam takes to deal with alcohol? Best of all, as said before, a teaching which help Muslims be in quasi-constant remembrance of Allah (SWT), then the curse pronounced by the Prophet (PBUH) against anyone involved in: cutting the grapes (which make vine), transporting them, crushing them and selling the final product. Then the following prohibition: everything which makes someone drunk when taken in big quantity is forbidden to be taken in small quantity, even if not alcohol or vine. To cite only these two barriers.
Allah (SWT) knows His creation and set for them a religion which when followed correctly protects them and helps them live a healthy life.
Salaam.
Joseph.
- Status