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Booklover
Guest
Temptations are always around us, so when we are assailed by them, if we are virtuous, we don’t give in to them. We cannot acquire virtue by having the temptation removed.
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Joseph_Alison
Guest
Most of the temptations are the making of our own hands, we acquire virtue by resisting the tempation to create temptations in the first place.
Joseph.
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Tonks40
Guest
Huh?
With all due respect, it sounds like you’re running around in circles.
Peace.
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Booklover
Guest
Joseph, by forcing people into virtue, you’re destroying their free will! You either have free will or you don’t! We cannot really learn virtue if we are coerced into it by force.
God can give us all the strength we need in combating temptations. We just need to ask him for his help to become stronger morally and spiritually.
Vickie
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Joseph_Alison
Guest
May be.Huh?
With all due respect, it sounds like you’re running around in circles.
Peace.
Salaam.
Joseph.
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Joseph_Alison
Guest
Very true Wickie, I cannot agree more, but in order to ask Him, we should first (when faced with temptations) remember Him. This is the hardest part: to remember God during the crucial moments when tempted with a sin or about to commit it. How do you achieve that remembrance in Christianity?
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said: " During the act of adultery, the adulterer is not a believer” and " During the act of stealing, the thief is not a believer" This is so because if he was a believer at that moment, he should have known that Allah (SWT) was looking at him (belief and remembrance) and desist; if someone is shy to commit adultery in front of say his father, how can he commit it in front of his Lord knowing his Lord is looking at him. The same applies for every other sin.
The remembrance of God helps a lot and a big deal of the Islamic teachings and acts of worship is mainly to achieve that goal; specially the hidden forms of worship, these are the worships only Allah (SWT) knows we are doing.
Salaam.
Joseph.
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sainted
Guest
One might suppose that a believer is not a believer “during” the act and can always become a believer again ‘after’ the act! Could that be what Muhammad mean.
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Joseph_Alison
Guest
Very true Brother sainted, than you for pointing that out.
Salaam.
Joseph.
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sainted
Guest
Thanks but sorry I don’t quite get it. Do you mean that one can commit these acts in an unbelieving state in full knowledge that it is wrong and that they can always be a believer afterwards?
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Joseph_Alison
Guest
The state of mind during the forbidden act is that of an unbeliever, God is completely out of the picture, a true believer will not do the act knowing God is watching and kind of saying" God, I know you are watching me, I know you forbade this act, but I will do it anyway" this is not the position of a true believer. It is only after the fact that a believing sinner recovers his faculties-, which were overshadowed by his quest to the forbidden pleasure-, feels the remorse, asks for forgiveness and repents. The feeling of remorse is a sign that his state of mind changed, he is now fully aware of God’s presence.
Besides, adultery and theft can easily become murder. A thief may not hesitate to kill in order to cover his tracks if discovered during the act; the same applies to an adulterer.
Joseph.
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gurrato_alaien
Guest
What the funny thing is that Christians do not follow even their own book.
Unlike Christians Muslims believe in being virtuous by avoid any forbidden things
But Christians do not. As example eating of pork is forbidden even in the bible and still Christians eat it.
The Bible prohibits the consumption of pork, in the book of Leviticus
“And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you”.
“Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch, they are unclean to you.”[Leviticus 11:7-8]
Pork is also prohibited in the Bible in the book of Deuteronomy
“And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you. Ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass.”
[Deuteronomy 14:8]
A similar prohibition is repeated in the Bible in the book of Isaiah chapter 65 verse 2-5.
This is just an example
Peace
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sainted
Guest
Thanks for the help. It seems that the more we go on the more it becomes complicated. So it means that a true believer will not do the act but even if s/he goes ahead and do it is still a believer afterwards. So really there is no such person as an unbliever in the muslim world as they are only an unbeliever during the act.
I find it quite difficult though to comprehend your view on this. You said, “**It is only after the fact that a “believing sinner” recovers ** …” This somehow contradicts as it seems that the sinner as you call it is a **believing sinner ** during the act. This is supported by the fact that if s/he wasn’t a believer during the act s/he would never have had the notion of repentance afterwards. Additionally if s/he was an unbeliever s/he would think the action taken was perfectly acceptable and there would be no need to repent.
I think the confusion stems from the terminology used perhaps another label would be more appropriate like ‘obedience’ or so for the sinner.
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Tonks40
Guest
Or you can look at it as the believer, while committing these forbidden acts, as a believer who is denying God…it does not equate to unbelief…
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sainted
Guest
That’s what I’m trying to get at. The fact is you are a believer still when you fall in sin. However if after you don’t feel remorse on the committed sin then you become an unbeliever as you consciously refuse to admit your sin to God.
However this is in contrast to what Islam (or maybe only to brother Joseph’s) view, that one’s status changes from unbelief to believing depending on the act one is doing at anyone time.
For instance it can be very confusing if we consider this line also:
While the hijackers of those planes were zeroing into their targets they were all screaming,“Allah is the greatest.” So how can it justify ‘God out of the picture’ thing when they were committing murder? Or if they were unbelievers at that moment why the heck screaming to Allah?
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kristyn
Guest
He was a warlord. He preyed on people’s ignorance and fear. I will continue to pray for all Muslims who are fooled, and brainwashed. Islam is a ‘’'religion" of simplicity, because people couldn’t handle the complexity and beauty of the True Catholic Faith, so Mohammad came along, like all the heresies and offered an easy 'Faith", but one that resulted in murder to spread it’s word. Wake up!!
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kristyn
Guest
gurrato alaien:
so, i guess Catholics can spread the word quick, by forced conversions, and compulsion? Don’t bother to show me that famousl verse you love to show from your book, that negates that, because I can show you ten more that show the opposite.
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so, i guess Catholics can spread the word quick, by forced conversions, and compulsion? Don’t bother to show me that famousl verse you love to show from your book, that negates that, because I can show you ten more that show the opposite.
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kristyn
Guest
text deleted Why do we all bother?? It is too frustrating for me, I will pray and pray and pray. Read Serge Trifcovic, ‘’'the sword of the prophet", that is all I can offer.
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kristyn
Guest
gurrato alaien:
Here is an example of the many legislative acts, and there are so many. Catholics are logical. We eat whatever we want, because God makes only good. YOu even legislate which hand to whipe after having a bowel movement–illogical, at the least. Did you know Islam produces a very large amount of people who have obsessive compulsive disorders? Can you see why?
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Edris
Guest
Code:
thanx for the prayer. and i hope One of Them answer.
Complexity.....:) you're right we can't handle that.
Code:
comeon you can offer more than this.The Time magazine has reported that about 60,000 books have been written in an attempt to discredit Islam over the past 150 years.
I wonder who’s been brain washed.
Peace
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